MyHermes (via eBay Packlink) lost laptop *** SOLVED***

[danp85]

Hi folks, 

 

I'm so glad I found this site. Seems like I'm not the only person who's had issues with myHermes/Packlink. myHermes lost my £842 laptop, and now Packlink won't respond to me in regards to my claim. 

 

Here's the timeline:

12 November 2019 - Sold Macbook Pro on eBay

13 November 2019 - Received payment from buyer

13 November 2019 - Organised next day shipping directly through eBay (Packlink) with myHermes. Paid extra to insure for the full value of the eBay transaction (£842.00)

13 November 2019 - Dropped off at ParcelShop. Obtained a receipt.

14 - 18 November 2019 - Gave myHermes the benefit of the doubt. 

18 November 2019 - Contacted myHermes for the first time

26 November 2019 - Contact Packlink, as I'm reasonably confident the item is lost, and I'll need to raise a claim with them

27 November 2019 -  myHermes confirms item is lost. Advise me to raise a claim with Packlink

28 November 2019 - Fully refund buyer

28 November 2019 - Packlink advises me to make a claim

28 November 2019 - Packlink acknowledges receipt of claim (automated email)

9 December 2019 - Contact Packlink requesting an update

17 December 2019 - Contact Packlink requesting an update

 

I'm quite concerned that I won't get my money back, as Packlink has laptops (though called Notebooks, so nothing comes up if you search laptop) in their list of Goods with no insurance coverage - restricted goods, and myHermes has laptops in their Non Compensation Items. 

 

I'm feeling a bit better after reading through this site and seeing posts like this.

 

Currently my main concerns are that 

• Packlink isn't responding to me. 
• Packlink isn't based in the UK, so UK law may not apply
• This is taking such a long time - is my window going to run out? 

 

Would love any feedback on what steps I should take next. Do I wait for Packlink to get back to me? Keep nudging? Publicly tweet? Contact myHermes directly? 

 

Thanks in advance, any advice would be very much appreciated.  

Edited December 20, 2019 by danp85
Add refund buyer to timeline

[AndyOrch]

Hi and Welcome to CAG danp

 

For information..UK Law will  apply as its business is being conducted here.

a. Maximum responsibility of Packlink

The maximum responsibility of Packlink shall be governed by the provisions of domestic and international legislation applying to the transport services offered by Packlink.

Currently, this legislation is as follows:

• i. Land Transport in Spain: Law 15/2009 and its enacting regulations.
• ii. International Land Transport: Convention on the Contract for the International Carriage of Goods by Road (CMR), signed in Geneva on May 19, 1956.
• iii. Rail Transport in Spain: Law 15/2009 and its enacting regulations.
• iv. International Rail Transport: Convention Concerning International Carriage by Rail, signed in Geneva on May 9, 1980.
• v. Air Transport in Spain: Air Navigation Act of 1960 and the Commercial Code.
• vi. Air Transport, internationally: Convention for the Unification of Certain Rules for International Carriage by Air, signed in Montreal on May 28, 1999
• vii. Maritime Transport in Spain: Law of December 22, 1949. International Maritime Transport: International Convention for the Unification of Certain Rules of Law relating to Bills of Lading, of 25 August, 1924; Brussels Convention of 1924; Hague–Visby Rules of 1968; Brussels Protocol of 1979.
• viii. Law 43/2010 of December 30 on worldwide postal services, the rights of users and the postal market.

 

https://www.packlink.com/en-GB/terms-and-conditions

 

Further information .....

 

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.packlink.com

 

Andy

 

[BankFodder]

We've had quite a few complaints about Packlink recently. You are absolutely correct. They are outside of the UK jurisdiction and so therefore they are very difficult to attack. As far as I can see, most of the regulations that they say they are subject to are conventions and so I would suggest that they are probably agreed industrial practice – not directly binding on a consumer/customer – and at best would be implied into a contract if at all. Because they would amount to implied terms they would be any overriding statutory provisions. They do appear to be referring to a few laws – but we don't know what those laws are.

You will have to remind me. Packlink is basically a service which puts you in contact with a delivery company and in this case it's Hermes and your contract is directly with Hermes. Is that correct? You bought some kind of compensation here and that compensation/insurance cover was paid to Hermes. Is that correct?

You declared the fact that it was a MacBook and also you declared the correct value and you insured it for the correct value. Is that correct?

 

Did you sell this laptop as a trader or as a private individual?

[danp85]

This is great! Thanks so much! 

[BankFodder]

On 20/12/2019 at 17:46, BankFodder said:

We've had quite a few complaints about Packlink recently. You are absolutely correct. They are outside of the UK jurisdiction and so therefore they are very difficult to attack. As far as I can see, most of the regulations that they say they are subject to are conventions and so I would suggest that they are probably agreed industrial practice – not directly binding on a consumer/customer – and at best would be implied into a contract if at all. Because they would amount to implied terms they would be any overriding statutory provisions. They do appear to be referring to a few laws – but we don't know what those laws are.



You declared the fact that it was a MacBook and also you declared the correct value and you insured it for the correct value. Is that correct?

 

Did you sell this laptop as a trader or as a private individual?

 

Have you read what I posted – quoted above –?

 

2 minutes ago, danp85 said:

 

This is great! Thanks so much! 

 

So where are you on this and what are you deciding to do?

I know that it has been Christmas et cetera – but you first posted on 20 December and not since then. If you want to move forward with this you will have to engage with this thread

[danp85]

On 20/12/2019 at 17:46, BankFodder said:

We've had quite a few complaints about Packlink recently. You are absolutely correct. They are outside of the UK jurisdiction and so therefore they are very difficult to attack. As far as I can see, most of the regulations that they say they are subject to are conventions and so I would suggest that they are probably agreed industrial practice – not directly binding on a consumer/customer – and at best would be implied into a contract if at all. Because they would amount to implied terms they would be any overriding statutory provisions. They do appear to be referring to a few laws – but we don't know what those laws are.

You will have to remind me. Packlink is basically a service which puts you in contact with a delivery company and in this case it's Hermes and your contract is directly with Hermes. Is that correct? You bought some kind of compensation here and that compensation/insurance cover was paid to Hermes. Is that correct?

You declared the fact that it was a MacBook and also you declared the correct value and you insured it for the correct value. Is that correct?

 

Did you sell this laptop as a trader or as a private individual?

 

Hi @BankFodder - thanks so much for getting back to me so quickly. Sorry for my delayed response, I have been away. 

 

I wish I'd known this about Packlink before using them - I just thought they were a part of ebay, so thought it was the easiest/safest bet. How wrong I was. 

 

Re Packlink vs myHermes - I'm not entirely sure. I've attached my invoice (packlink invoice.pdf)  with personal details of myself and the intended recipient blocked out. It looks to me like the compensation goes to PackLink not to myHermes, which probably won't help me. 

 

I did declare it as a MacBook (it autofilled based on the item being sold), and I declared/insured for the correct value. (packlink info.pdf)

 

I sold the laptop as a private individual. 

 

I have contacted PackLink again yesterday asking how I can escalate this, as I have still not heard from them since submitting my claim on 28 November 2018. 

 

Sorry again for my delay, and thanks again for your help, I really, really appreciate it. 

 

packlink info.pdf

 

packlink invoice.pdf

Packlink T&Cs.pdf

[danp85]

10 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

 

Have you read what I posted – quoted above –?

 

 

So where are you on this and what are you deciding to do?

I know that it has been Christmas et cetera – but you first posted on 20 December and not since then. If you want to move forward with this you will have to engage with this thread

 

Sorry about this! I must have been writing my response while this came in! I shouldn't have done my first post right before going on hols - I didn't realise how quick moving these things are (which is great!) 

 

Please accept my sincere apologies for not responding for such a long time. I'll for sure be quicker next time. 

[BankFodder]

I understand. We are really just concerned that you are seriously invested in this – because we certainly are.

Some people think that this is a social media forum – but it isn't. This is serious business and we provide free advice and support to the best of our ability worth many hundreds of pounds and often more.

As I've already said, we understand that the Christmas and New Year periods can be very disruptive – but they are basically at an end now so it is time to move forward if you are still on board

[danp85]

28 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

I understand. We are really just concerned that you are seriously invested in this – because we certainly are.

Some people think that this is a social media forum – but it isn't. This is serious business and we provide free advice and support to the best of our ability worth many hundreds of pounds and often more.

As I've already said, we understand that the Christmas and New Year periods can be very disruptive – but they are basically at an end now so it is time to move forward if you are still on board

100% - I'm fully committed to doing everything I need to to get this money back!

 

I'm down about £850 at the moment (Macbook Pro (sold for £814), Postage & Insurance - £33.71, & Packing materials (~£10)) - not to mention the time spent trying to resolve it, and the stress about potentially losing all this money -  so will do whatever I need to not be out of pocket all this money! 

[BankFodder]

As I have already said, PackLink will be more difficult to attack and in fact you would have to start up a European small claims process. This means that you would bring the claim in England and then have it enforced in Spain or Portugal – wherever they are.

Far more straightforward if we can somehow fix the the liability on Hermes. It seems to me quite clear that Hermes are going to be liable for negligence but it would be useful to make them liable in contract.

I notice that the Packlink website describes the compensation cover as "insurance". Of course it is not backed or licensed by the FCA or anything else that insurances normally require as a matter of law so one can say that the description of the cover as "insurance" is misleading – and possibly unlawful. If you look at most UK courier sites, they describe this kind of cover as "compensation".

I notice that in the packlink TNCs they say that the terms and conditions of the transport agent trumps their own terms and conditions. You may also be able to benefit from the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act which would allow you to sue Hermes on the contract.

Did your payment go directly to Packlink or did it go to Hermes?

Hermes normally put their hands up on these kinds of claims – but in this case there are differences. Firstly you have bought the Hermes service to Packlink which conveniently for Hermes is outside of the jurisdiction. Hermes will see that as an advantage to them – and of course they are right. On this basis they might decide that it is worth defending the case simply to establish the principle. Secondly, we are talking about a reasonably valuable object – over £800. The sums that we have normally been dealing with here are generally only a couple of hundred quid. For the kind of value that you are talking about, Hermes may decide to go the distance.

You can be absolutely certain that if you begin a claim directly with Hermes they will reject the claim and you will be forced to threaten to bring a small claim in the County Court – and Hermes will ignore this as well. You will then have to issue the papers. This will require a county court fee – of about 50 or 60 quid – you will have to look it up. If you win you will get this back. If it then goes to a hearing then you will have to pay a hearing fee and this would be about a hundred pounds or so. If you win then you will get that back as well.

This means that your risk amounts to the loss of your computer plus the claim fee plus the hearing fee. If you win, you will also claim loss of interest on the value of the computer although that won't be a significant amount.

Because you would be dealing with a small claim, you wouldn't have to pay any more of Hermes legal costs – and of course that then becomes a risk factor for Hermes along with the fact that if you won, this would establish a very nice principle – although non-binding – which would encourage others to bring their claims as well.

You are helped by the fact that you specifically chose Hermes so we could say that you are dealing with them directly. It wasn't Packlink who simply decided to find the most suitable agent – in which case they would have been a better case for saying that the contract was definitely with Packlink.

On the other hand, there was one case recently where a judge said that various terms of the contract weren't unfair because the customer had a variety of options and deliberately selected Hermes. Frankly I thought that the customer argued the case very poorly and unfortunately although they started receiving advice here, they then went off on their own and as a result (in my opinion) they lost the case.

Because you solve the computer as a private individual, the case would be heard in your local court and that also would create another risk factor for Hermes who would have to use paid representation to travel to your local court in order to attend the hearing.

Don't expect any of this to be quick or straightforward. I rate your chances at better than 80%. I scarcely ever encouraged someone to bring a claim for any lower ask than this – so you are at the margin of what I would recommend – but this is not because of the weakness of your case, it is because of the unknown factor – which is the Packlink element.

 

[BankFodder]

European Small Claims

 

European Small Claims procedure

 

European Small Claims forms

[BankFodder]

Helpful quote

 

Quote

 

https://www.packlink.com/en-GB

[danp85]

Hey @BankFodder,

 

Thanks so much for the very detailed info. I really, really appreciate it! 

 

I am absolutely thrilled and shocked to say that PackLink has come back to me, and they have approved my claim, so will be sending through compensation - £842 for the laptop, and £7.66 for the postage on Wednesday when they make all their payments. 

 

You could knock me over with a feather that that was the outcome, considering they specifically say they don't cover notebooks. 

 

Thanks again for your time and all your help - I really appreciate it!

 

 

[BankFodder]

Thanks for updating us.

What was it do you think made a difference?