CEL PCN - 111 Long Street, Middleton. The Old Boars Head Car Park. M24 6UE

[odds]

Hi,

Completely by surprise last week

I received a demand from the above for payment as it seems I hadn't paid to park.

 

I say by surprise because I have frequented this establishment many times over the last few years and parking has always been free, and I didn't see anything to suggest otherwise this time.

 

The location as shown on google maps is here:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5532796,-2.1966645,3a,75y,249.64h,84.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_7wSLBtMIfme9fEWhaMUSw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

 

There were certainly no obviously visible signs in the car park to make you stop and think parking charges were in force.

And I noticed on the pub facebook page that somebody else had been caught out the week before,

there is even a photo of him looking at the non illuminated sign in the dark, which says Pay at the machine, I didn't even notice a machine  

 

From reading his grievance, that sign was not visible from where he parked and the route to the pub entrance.

I haven't been back yet to locate where it is yet, or to locate the illusive payment machine which I missed, and I was there in daylight

 

CEL Letter_Edited.pdf

[odds]

1 Date of the infringement  29/11/2019

 

2 Date on the NTK  04/12/2019 It isn't an NTK, just a demand for payment

[scan up BOTHSIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide]

 

3 Date received  07/12/2019

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]  No

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?  None supplied although it states there is photographic evidence of the event

 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal]  No

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up  N/A

 

7 Who is the parking company?  Civil Enforcement Limited

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]  111 Long Street, Middleton.  The Old Boars Head Car Park.  M24 6UE

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.  POPLA

[dx100uk]

umm

trying to work out if this is ANPR or a vanishing windscreen PCN.

if you look on their site

you should be able to download the pictures.

 

 

dx

[odds]

I checked the website and the only option is to appeal, which means putting all my personal details in again.

 

And don't forget the other guy got one at night just the week before me. 

Do you think they would patrol at night ?

 

There is a clinic at the back of the pub car park and you have to drive through the pub car park to access the clinic car park.

 

It mentions the ANPR cameras on the website of the clinic : http://www.durnfordmc.nhs.uk/

 

Scroll down to where it says Access:

Turn into the Boars Head Pub car park then drive through to our car park beyond the hedge. Please note the Boars Head Pub operates a "Pay and Display" parking system with number-plate recognision. Use of our car park is free to anyone visiting the surgery

 

[dx100uk]

why do you need to pay and display if its ANPR

the camera doesn't know if/if not you've displayed a ticket

 

me thinks this is a sneaky employee or touring operator but I don't think CEL employ any.

and in that case they should be issuing a windscreen PCN and the NTK has been issued too early.

 

[odds]

2 hours ago, dx100uk said:

why do you need to pay and display if its ANPR

the camera doesn't know if/if not you've displayed a ticket

 

Apparently, on producing your ticket the bar staff will reimburse your parking fee. 

 

2 hours ago, dx100uk said:

 

me thinks this is a sneaky employee or touring operator but I don't think CEL employ any.

 

Not quite sure what that means actually 

 

2 hours ago, dx100uk said:

and in that case they should be issuing a windscreen PCN and the NTK has been issued too early.

 

 

It's not a NTK as such, or it isn't headed as one.  It is merely an invite to pay the fee or name the driver responsible whom I obviously have no obligation to name.  They don't mention Schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012 in this letter, but could they do so in future correspondence ?

I assume it is safe to not enter into any correspondence with them at this stage and await the barrage of threats that will be forthcoming.

 

[dx100uk]

no need to respond at all until/unless you get a letter of claim I expect.

 

the fact you can get your ticket moneyback from barstaff is immaterial.

 

we really need to see these supposed photos, to see if they are man made, CCTV or ANPR.

 

why don't you go look in daylight and see if there are any ANPR/CCTV apparent, I suspect not.

which is why you can't get to see their photographic 'evidence' as whomever took them is most probably not covered by the DPA/GDPR acts to process your data and are getting a backhander to do them with a phone or something?

 

just musing 

[odds]

I intend going back and getting photos DX, simply because I can't believe that I never saw ANY signs and even missed the machine to pay at.  Like I said I've frequented this place many times in the past few years so I think I would have noticed something different, unless I'm going senile 
The times on the letter are a bit strange, the entry time was dead on x hr and xx mins but no seconds, whereas the exit was x hr, xx mins and xx seconds.

I don't really want to go through the appeals process online, confirming all my details in the hope they will show the photos, just the cynic in me coming out 

[ericsbrother]

Ashley doesnt even try and make his begging letters look compliant within the law any more so there is no keeper liability.

 

Now the lack of signs at the entrance will kill any claim of a contract by way of signage placed elsewhere and the land appears to be divided so what bit is CEL in charge of?

 

they have used ANPR cameras to capture your comings and goings but what if you are using the village hall and not the pub for example, you have to still pass through the cameras but arent covered by the signs so no contract to consider let alone breach.

 

Plenty of time so nice piccies of

the entrance to the land,

any signs present,

their cameras,

any signs around the car park and

some piccies to show the layout and

what appears to be a division of the parking- ie the bollards etc, changes in tarmac surface etc.

 

Is the pub still open? If not then who does CEL have the agreeemnt with will be a question for the future.

 

Dont be tempted to contact them until they get to sending you a LBA or LBC, anything from a dca is just waste paper.

[odds]

Sorry for not getting back sooner.  Due to personal reasons I have had to bite the bullet it on this.
It goes against what I believe in but I honestly need to let this one go.

 

I do have some pictures and believe that the signs were installed after the date I had visited, simply because there was one right behind where I parked, infact the payment machine was right behind where I parked.

However, that is immaterial and I apologise for wasting anyones time.

 

Thanks.  

[ericsbrother]

I dont understand why you have chucked the towel in when you were never in any danger of having to pay them, let alone a year before they even started to get shirty about their lack of a free dinner.

 

Not concerned about wasting our time but you have done everyone else who has had or will receive a bogus ticket from them a disservice by making it possible to fund the next round of begging letters.

 

So what if ticket machine next to where you were parked, without planning permission it is merely an obstruction placed there by criminals.

[dx100uk]

next move it not yours

if you are busy let it run..

 

no need to respond at all until/unless you get a letter of claim I expect.