NPE MNPR PCN - 6 mins stay/wrong bay for Barclays bank customers Car Park Clifton Court, Cambridge

[Jameson78]

Dear CAG Team,

 

I received a ANPR PCN from National Parking Enforcement LTD for parking in the wrong bay for 6 minutes on 21/10/19. (Date of infringement: 16/10/19)

 

I sent them a letter explaining that I do not acknowledge any debt as that there is no debt to collect.  I mentioned that there was no valid contractual offer and the amount that they are demanding amounts to a contractual penalty, unrelated to any loss incurred.  I told them that I will ignore any future correspondence on this matter - other than a court summons.

 

They replied stating that they have rejected my appeal because they believe the PCN was issued correctly and told me to contact the IAS if I want to contest their decision.  

 

Might there be a grace period to park because 6 minutes is not long?  Has anyone heard of this company?  If I should appeal, what's the best way or should I simply ignore?  

As always, thanks for your help!

 

I have attached 3 letters (both side: front & back) and converted into one PDF as requested in the sticky.

 

 

3_letters_converted_PDF.pdf

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

We don't normally recommend appealing to the IAS as it's usually doomed to fail, unless one of the experts disagrees. 

 

Ignore them unless you get a letter before claim. 

 

HB

[honeybee13]

Also, can you post up your appeal please, minus any personal information. 

 

HB

[Jameson78]

Thanks HB,

 

I have attached the "appeal" in PDF.  Actually, I considered it more of a "get lost" letter rather than an appeal.

 

I read somewhere on CAG that they should give you at least 10 minutes to be able to find/read any notices... which I did not see.

I was parked for 6 minutes.  Any merit to this?

 

Thanks

 

 

Appeal-converted.pdf

[honeybee13]

Yes, there is a grace period. Let's see what the others think. 

 

HB

[Homer67]

Did you identify yourself as the driver?

 

It sounds like you did.

[dx100uk]

they are trying to pull the same dodge as UKPCM and the VCS airports 'no stopping' PCN's are doing by claiming its an ANPR capture when its not.!

[NTK sent within 14 days]

 

its operator pictures or capture by CCTV, so should have issued a windscreen ticket and awaited 29 - 56 days to send the NTK.

[Jameson78]

Homer67 - I never said that I was the driver.  I just replied to them to say that  I do not acknowledge any debt as that there is no debt to collect.  That's not admitting that I was the driver.

 

dx - so is it best that I just ignore for now and wait to see if they come back to me?

 

If there a grace period?  6 minutes is no time at all..

[dx100uk]

there is always a grace period

but that goes out the window if you ID yourself as the driver

and that sentence doesn't prevent that.

please post up a copy of the appeal you made

lets check it!!

 

 

[Jameson78]

Appeal is in post 4

PDF format

thanks

[dx100uk]

I didn't know you were a freemen of the land follower...

[Jameson78]

not sure what you mean by that dx.. went over my head lol 

 

how is it?  

[brassnecked]

The "appeal" reads like something off a FMOYL forum, and they might infer that you are the driver.

[Jameson78]

I see.  

you said, "so should have issued a windscreen ticket and awaited 29 - 56 days to send the NTK."

 

is that enough of a defense to if summoned?  If you were me, would you ignore?

[dx100uk]

9/10 you always ignore until/unless you get a letter of claim 

 

the letter invoicing game is a favourite trick of those that follow freeman of the land

it will undoubtedly give them the impression [quite rightly] that you haven't a clue what you are doing with regard to a speculative invoice.

 

1000's of threads here to read 

and get upto speed.

 

first hurdle is to workout if this is a ANPR capture [I think not - ANPR doesn't know if you have a windscreen ticket showing or not] or a sneaky employee using CCTV me thinks it is

 

thus the NTK is wrong too early

 

dx

 

 

[Jameson78]

Thanks dx

 

This is a communal car park. Several business use this and Barclays bank have marked bays for customers to use.  There is no possibility to obtain a ticket to display inside the car window.  You just drive in and park in the bay corresponding to the business you are visiting.

 

The initial PCN they sent just has a time in and time out: total 6 minutes.  (is the way they have shown the period of parking counted as evidence?  Do you mean that they should show the car driving in and out, one picture of in and another picture of the car driving out as eveidence?)

 

The only photos are a picture of the car parked in the wrong bay and a zoom picture of the number plate.  

 

[dx100uk]

so proves cctv use as an anpr system which is a no no.

go read the MNPR ukpcs threads and any no stopping pcn thread

 

better you get upto speed

[Jameson78]

will do - thanks dx

[ericsbrother]

My thoughts on various aspects of this.

 

1. cameras- cameras attached to a building as these appear to be require no PP so what is important in your case is whose cameras are they? if they belong to a shop and the shopkeeper is passing on the images to the parking cowboys then they are breaking the law and so are the parking co for processing them.

this doesnt chaneg any contract with the parking co though

 

2. your appeal wasn't an appeal but the parking sent out a stock reply so they can claim they are following procedure.

I dont think that you have identified yourself as the driver but the speed of your communication may allow a judge to infer that is was you

 

3 the Beavis judgement gives you the grace period regardless of the wording of the signage, it is to give you time to read their guff and make a decision. They cant fine you for reading their notices!

 

4 Look up the address of the parking co and you will find that many companies associated to Ashley Cohen and his mates are based there and none of their names appear as directors of said companies. 

 

CEL has a habit of suing people and then running away when the claim is defended because they know they dont have a proper case and are just using the courts as a way or coercing you into paying a non existent debt.

 

for this reason I recommend sitting on your hnads for now other than to get some pictures of the entrance to that land and any signs associated with it. if there are no signs at the entrance then take a picture showing that as it is proof that you werent warned or offered anything

 

5 The signs you show has terms that dont match what they have claimed as visitors wont be on their database but still allowed to park so the breach is just gobbldeygook. therefore no breach

[Jameson78]

Thank you ericsbrother.

 

Yes, I certainly was not "appealing".  Will ignore them.

 

Thanks again. 

[Jameson78]

Update:  Just received the attached letter from TNC Collections.

 

Stating that I have not paid the PCN and nor have i advised their client that I was not the keeper nor the driver of the vehicle.

If I don't pay then the next step would be doorstep collection agent.

 

Is it worth writing to them, or continue sitting on hands?

 

Thanks.

 

[dx100uk]

images/posts removed
.
please do not post jpg picture images directly to a post
.
read upload and redact in jpg then convert using on of the listed websites there to convert to one multipage pdf only

.
that way only logged-in,registered and approved caggers are the only ones that can download and see them
.
else anyone can see them caggers or not.

 

……….

 

you are quite safe to ignore

 

and I think you already know a DCA is NOT A BAILIFF anyway

[Jameson78]

That was careless of me.  thanks for reminding me dx.

 

Here it is in PDF format.

TNC Collections_06JAN20.pdf

[lookinforinfo]

As you parked in the wrong bay you were trespassing.

Only the landowner can pursue you for that not the creditor.

If they knew you were in the wrong bay that is why they ticketed you after 6 minutes.

 

They don't believe trespassers are entitled to the grace period.

We don't believe they are entitled to issue you with a PCN.

 

Forget about them and their ignorant debt collectors who have absolutely no power at all.

Keep all correspondence and let us know should they be stupid enough to send you a Letter before Claim.

[Jameson78]

Will do - thank you LFI