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    • Hi   With a SAR all you have to do is ask for 'ALL DATA' (this way it does not matter what format they hold that data whether it be digital, email, telephone calls (recorded), written etc).   They then have 30 Days to comply once they have acknowledged your SAR Request (that is unless they require ID Verification) which the 30 Days time limit does not start until they have verified your ID if requested)   Also can I add in DHL response in post#36 I hate it when any Company/Business etc. has the nerve to use the get out clause of 'Human Error'.    This is not the case as it was 'Maladministration' by DHL' not 'Human Error' as stated to you, irrespective of who/which employee of DHL made the 'Human Error' the buck stops with DHL as who/which employee made that error was Employed by DHL.
    • pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform. [if mcol is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] .  register as an individual  note the long gateway number given  then log in .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform .  defend all  leave jurisdiction unticked   goto the defence filing section  file the following:     1 The Claimant's claim was issued on (insert date).  2 The Defendant contends that the Claimant's claim so issued is a claim in contract and is statute barred pursuant to the provisions of section 5 of the limitation act 1980.  . If, which is denied, the claimant contends that the Defendant is in breach of the alleged contract, in excess of 6 years have elapsed since the date on which any cause of action for breach accrued for the benefit of the Claimant. .  3 The Claimant's claim to be entitled to payment of £[insert figure from their POC]  or any other sum, or relief of any kind is denied. .. ..ends..   dx          
    • I passed on the article and link to friend. Between us we will now try get the required info to the correct location so that they (whoever in the Govt) can sort out what he is owed. I will keep you updated.  This thread may help others in similar situations. Ethel Street - very helpful research.  Thank you.  Seems like you came up trumps!
    • numerous erudio/drydens claimform threads here already - use our search top right.   your appears to be statute barred as you've never heard of erudio so would not have deferred since your last direct deferment to SLC in 2013    if you wish to bother to even send CCA/CPR that's upto you but the bottom line is to erudio you've ignored everything to date yoy might also ignore a claimform.   but ofcourse you are not!!   if the above is true   pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform. [if mcol is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] .  register as an individual  note the long gateway number given  then log in .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform .  defend all  leave jurisdiction unticked   goto the defence filing section  file the following: 1 The Claimant's claim was issued on (insert date).  2 The Defendant contends that the Claimant's claim so issued is a claim in contract and is statute barred pursuant to the provisions of section 5 of the limitation act 1980.  . If, which is denied, the claimant contends that the Defendant is in breach of the alleged contract, in excess of 6 years have elapsed since the date on which any cause of action for breach accrued for the benefit of the Claimant. .  3 The Claimant's claim to be entitled to payment of £[insert figure from their POC]  or any other sum, or relief of any kind is denied. .. ..ends..   dx      
    • Well I would want my £50 back also but hey ho if your satisfied its been resolved.....there was no way you could ever be liable anyway as your contract was with TC not RC.   Thread title updated.   Andy
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0james0

KBT Cornwall/Armtrac/BW PCN claimform

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Hi

 

On the 16th December I am due in the small claims court to defend myself against in my opinion, an unfairly issued parking charge invoice issued by a private parking firm. I'll give as much detail as I can, in the hope someone would be kind enough to give me some advice and confirm if my planned defence is likely to succeed or could be improved. 

 

The claimant is KBT Cornwall Limited,  trading as Armtrac Security Services, being represented by BW Legal in court. 

 

The alleged offence took place on 19/08/18 and was for breach of their car park contract terms, with the reason given as parking without a permit, with a parking charge issued of £100, reduced to £60 if paid with 28 days. 

 

My defence is planned to consist of the following:

 

- I was staying in a hotel, of which included parking for residents, unknown to me, they shared their car park for their customers with the claimant who issued my parking charge. There was no clear signage that differentiated which part of the car park was for hotel guests and which was owned by a different firm, so I was not to know that by parking in the shared car park, where I was apparently parked was not for hotel guests. 

 

- they have provided me with their evidence bundle, which includes some photo evidence, but I feel this evidence should only help my cause. The pictures were taken at 00.35am and are in total darkness, so there is a picture of my car number plate, then a picture of my car, which because of it being pitch black, you cannot establish either the signage explaining it was private land, or even where my car was parked in location to the car park. 

 

- I feel they did not follow the correct procedure with regards to contacting me about the offence. The offence took place on 19/08/18, they made an enquiry to the DVLA on 04/10/18, receiving a response on 08/10/18 and then issued a notice to keeper to me on 09/10/18. I am unsure of the exact time required, but I am sure within the protection of freedoms act, they are required to contact me within 14 days, possibly 28 days, either way, their contact to me was much longer, I feel this could be a crucial part of my defence. 

 

- The same act also implies that the car park owner must have adequate signage to give notice to the driver of the contract they are entering into. Not only is the signage confusing as it is not clear which part of the car park is for the hotel and which is for them, as evidenced by their pictures, you cannot see any of the signage at all as it was 00.35am and the signs were not illuminated, or visible and were impossible to see. 

 

- The pictures they have as evidence are time stamped from 00.34am to 00.37am, yet they have noted they gave a 10 minute grace period and observed the car from 00.27am to 00.37am, yet none of the evidence they have offered validates this. 

 

- I did not receive any correspondence about the parking charge, until I was told I was going to court. No letters were sent recorded delivery, however this seems to not matter as BW Legal have already told me they will have this point dismissed on the grounds of the balance of probability that a letter should have arrived. 

 

- I also wanted to refer to previous cases of similar cases. KBT Cornwall vs Jackson 10/03/17 where the judge agreed the signage was misleading and confusing and from a quick google, it seems this company are notorious for being over zealous in their approach and there are multiple cases of them losing at court. 

 

 

Any help or advice would be very appreciated and I am happy to supply more information if needed

 

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no way hoesey!!

 

2 -5 line std defence here in most PCN claimform threads

 

but please complete this first

 

and scan up all the paperwork you have to ONE multipage PDF too

but NOT the claimform

read our upload guide carefully

 

 


..

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Name of the Claimant: KBT Cornwall Ltd, t/a Armtrac Security Services

 

 Date of issue – 16th October 2019, then 16th November 2019 when case was allocated to a different court

 

Date of issue 19th August 2018 + 19 days ( 5 day for service + 14 days to acknowledge) = XX + 14 days to submit defence = XX (33 days in total) -

 

Particulars of Claim

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? Please type out their particulars of claim in full (verbatim) less any identifiable data and round the amounts up/down: No permit

What is the total value of the claim? £265.12

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC ( Pre Action Protocol) ? No

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? N/A

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Automatically agreed by parking in their car park

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/ Equifax /Etc...) ? No

 

 

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. – It has been assigned to BW Legal

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Not that I am aware of

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? No

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? No

Why did you cease payments? I was unaware there was a payment due and when I did find out, I disagreed that a payment should be made as I believe no offence was committed

What was the date of your last payment? None made

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? Yes

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No

 

 

 

The documents they have sent me are attached, please note the dark pictures of my car are not bad scans, that really is the images they are using as evidence of my car in the dark!

 

 

 

I tried to follow the guide the best I could, hopefully I have not broken any rules and I am very grateful for your help. 

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you already filed your defence  within 33 days from the date top right on the original northants bulk claimform. - go check mcol website.

 

what you have now is a hearing at your local court on the 16th December

but you have failed to file YOUR witnessstatement - that was due on 2nd December!!

 

 

 


..

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had to take down the upload of their ws

you've not bothered to redact anything.

 

dx

 


..

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I do not know enough about what I should or should not be doing, so apologies if I have done things wrong. I could not see anything that I did not mind being in a public space in the upload, which is why I did not remove anything. 

 

I was not invited or told to file a witness statement, I have simply been told I have a court hearing and the details of their defence. 

 

 

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look at page two of the N157 from the court

 

witness statements must be exchange by 14 days before the court hearing.

 

we cant allow pers info in an open forum , it breaks UK GDPR and data protection rules.

 

 


..

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OK, thank you. So in a nutshell, they are probably going to win by default, no matter how valid my points are with my defence. 

 

I have just found out they moved the court hearing to London, despite me living in the Southwest, so I am going to ask for it to be moved closer to where I live and the offence took place, maybe I can then have time to file my witness statement?

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Don't give up, James, wait to see what the guys think. You're allowed some leeway on timing as a litigant in person [LiP] but I'm not sure how long.

 

Do you have a witness statement ready? If so, maybe we could see it. Please leave out any personal information that could identify you.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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I only received the documents in a few days, so I wanted to get some advice before I drafted one, just so the points in my defence were valid, as not to irritate the judge with things that are not relevant or helpful. 

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You already filed your defence weeks ago.

 

did you not return the n180 stating your local court a few weeks ago?

 

 


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Your description of the event in your first post is excellent, and with a few tweaks could form the basis of a very good WS.

 

As others have said, I don't understand why you didn't choose your local court of send in the WS when requested to do so on court documentation.

 

I would be tempted to tweak the points in your first post first thing tomorrow (or even better now) and e-mail it to the court & the fleecers.  Normally the site advises not to use e-mail but time is of the essence.  The court MIGHT accept your WS.  You won't harm yourself by doing so.  Nothing ventured ...

 

Once you've done that, come back tomorrow and see what the experts suggest about getting the court changed, I haven't a clue myself.  Not wanting to twist the knife, but you should really have read the court documentation carefully.

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As you didn't have a permit to park you were tresspassing.

Tresspassers can only be taken to court by the owner not the creditor, so KBT have no locus standi.

You had no contract with KBT because they did not allow you to park there.

No contract, no claim against you.

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Thank you all so much for taking the time to comment and help, I really do appreciate it.

 

Just to elaborate a bit more on the background, just because my lack of knowledge of the process might mean I've actually done things along the way that I did not know what they were and so hadn't mention it. 

 

When they decided to go to court, I was offered mediation, which I took. I offered to pay the reduced rate, just to make it go away, but insisted it was not an admission of guilt, it was a goodwill gesture to save us all the effort of court. They refused and wanted £250. 

 

A court date was set, but in Leeds, then a couple weeks later I received another letter saying it had been moved to London.

 

I was not aware I had any say in which court it would be held at, but I now understand i have good reason to request it is moved to a local one to me, which is also local to the offending place, I will call the court tomorrow and explain that. But so far I have only been told what is happening, I've not been given the choice for anything.

 

They seem to be going down the route of a contract breach, not trespass which is interesting.

There is a document in the evidence which has the agreement between themselves which I assumed meant they can pursue me. 

 

I am going to visit the site again shortly, at midnight the time of the offence and take pictures to build a case file of the route I took to enter the car park, how it is in the hotel grounds and no signs can be seen. 

 

Am I right in saying, the fact they do not actually have any pictures of my car in the location they say it was in, just because all of the pictures they have were at 12/30am and it was pitch black, I am going to say my car was parked correctly in the hotel side, not on their land and it is then up to them to prove otherwise, which they are not able to do, because the burden of proof lies with the claimant I think?

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yes but have the landowner paid this years contract fee. no evidence they have in the ws.

pop it back up now if you wish.

the forum is quiet i'll redact it for you so we have the info.

 

dx

 


..

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OK, I will do now.

 

I did look to black out certain things, but I was not sure what I should and should not redact and there was nothing on there that was personal enough for me to be concerned with being made public. So I am happy for all to view, but if you are kind enough to redact what is needed as per the forum rules, that would be amazing.

 

I was planning on collecting up other court cases they have lost, to refer to as part of my evidence, I'm not sure if this is worth doing or could just confuse matters?

 

But there seem to be many where the judge has ruled against them because of confusing and not clearly displayed signage, trespass, as well as their charge being £100, which is more than the Bevis case said was reasonable. 

 

A quick search found this article as one example

 

Lastly, I will go to the site to get updated images, but from google earth, you can see from the pictures the entrance states it is for the hotel parking, which I followed instructions and gave my details to the hotel. Where I think my car was parked (it was that long ago I'm not exactly sure) there are signs on the opposite wall, but it was 12.30am, pitch black and they could not be seen.

 

KBT cornwall lose case article.pdf Claimants_WS.pdf

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images/posts removed
.
please do not post jpg picture images directly to a post
.
read upload and redact in jpg then convert using on of the listed websites there to convert to one multipage pdf only

.
that way only logged-in,registered and approved caggers are the only ones that can download and see them
.
else anyone can see them caggers or not.

dx


..

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Here is a PDF of the images.

 

I have spoken with the court and they have said as the defendant I can only request to change the court location, but it may not be changed anyway. There is also a fee for me to apply to change the location of £255!

car park location google earth pictures.pdf

 

So it looks like a long trip to court is going to happen, I'm going to write out my defence, I've taken some legal advice and they said to ensure it is short and simple, with any evidence easily referenced and found for the judge. 

 

So the basis of my defence is going to be:

 

Trespass and who can take me to court over it as per the comment above

lack of visible signage and confusing signage about what part of the car park is owned by who, especially as it was at midnight

Time taken to contact me after the offence was too long

Grace period not given of 10 minutes

Previous court cases of the same firm losing because of similar reasons

 

As the court location cannot be changed and I need to make a long travel to get there, plus all of the time wasted putting my defence together, if I am lucky enough to win, can I claim costs for the inconvenience? for example like this case: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/aug/26/parking-eye-takes-on-top-barrister-85-fine

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that claim had already been struckout and the court case was for costs, PE ran away.

 

remember its a witness statement you are doing 

in support of your already filed defence and ripping their WS apart wrong point by wrong point.


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Attached is my witness statement and supporting evidence that I am going to give to the court, the court have said they will not even look at it until the day of the hearing, so I am OK to send it to them only a few days before the hearing. 

 

Do you think it is worth me sending this to BW Legal, in the hope they will drop the case before it goes to court? Or am I better not showing my hand to them, so they cannot amend their evidence based on what I have stated?

 

If anyone would be kind enough to read through my statement and give me their thoughts, that would be very much appreciated. 

 

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one multipage pdf only please

and i'd remove your name from the pdf title too eh?

 

dx

 


..

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Redacted and merged to one PDF

 

Attached is my witness statement and supporting evidence that I am going to give to the court, the court have said they will not even look at it until the day of the hearing, so I am OK to send it to them only a few days before the hearing. 

 

Do you think it is worth me sending this to BW Legal, in the hope they will drop the case before it goes to court? Or am I better not showing my hand to them, so they cannot amend their evidence based on what I have stated?

 

If anyone would be kind enough to read through my statement and give me their thoughts, that would be very much appreciated. 

 

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You've left your name and your reg showing - best to redo the PDF and redact these points.

 

Apart from that you've put in a hell of a lot of work - well done!  The experts will be on to suggest bits to tweak.

 

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Thanks for pointing that out, I have now correctly removed my name and car reg from the file and will upload in this post, so that the previous one can be deleted.

ilovepdf_merged_(1).pdf

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You are not being sued as the representative of a company but as an individual who breached a unilateral contract.

drop the bit about being a company director,

 

saying this actually places you as supposedly having greater knowledge than the general public by way of your profession.

I would steer well away from it.

 

Well the signage doesnt show an offer of a contract and makes no mention of owing them any money for breaching the non existent terms.

 

Also bear in mind that it was gone midnight and if you parked in the dark haow are you supposed to read a blue sign 8 feet up a wall! this menas that it is also sensible to claim that there was no offer of a contract by the signage regardless of its wording because it cannt be read so no offer and acceptance could take place.

 

If there were sigsn saying permit holders only that make the signage forbidding and not an offer of terms for all and sundry.

this menas that at worst you are a trespasser and that means the landowner may sue you, not these people.

 

you have accessed the parking pranksters blogspot so copy the reports that are about similar things, there are several.

You may get away with presenting these on the day and aopologising for your ignorance, some judges are very tolerant of litigants in person but others arent so a judge lottery for that.

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