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    • When I sadly lost my job a while back, i reportd it immpediately to DWP as you are supposed to, but didnt realise at the time that the day I reported to them was the day before I was paid out for the last month. I was actually paid extra whem I left as it was cheaper than redundancy fort the business and at the time it was a good financial move (so I thought).   I was paid on Fri 26th Jan, they paid me out 2 months in one go. I reported to DWP on the 22nd of Han that I was made unemployed, had the letters and evidence. As they spun the story, because of their assesment dates and that, my first payment was on the 1st May and reassured that it works the other way around. That when work starts again, if I dont actually receive money from the company during the assesment period, there wont be an issue as it balances up.   Can I believe this or was it another spun story? I'm concerned that as I'll be paid monthly, (Starting on the 15th paid on the last day of the month), assment ends on the 22nd. Tha they'll take that money into consideration.   I'm just concerned due to the disparity it would cause between 4 odd months I endured with zero income because of how their system works and whatever they ahe in place to counter at this end of the claim.   Anywa, it's just awonder.   Cheers,   Ade    
    • Hi, OP sister here, im going to try and explaine in full details from start to present and see if you have any advice for me on what i can do. on 15/1/2021  at 16:25pm i was traveling along hazlebarrow cresent wich is on my estate at around 30mph, its a tight road with cars parked along the left hand side, as i proceeded through, a van ( which was parked on my left hand side, facing towards me) pulled out from the side of the road, he stopped the van wich resulted in the van being at an angled stationary position on the road. I breaked immediately but the ice and snow skidded my tyers, i skidded into the drivers side of his van, my car bounced off his van and sent my vehicle head first into the back of a parked car ( wich was originally parked at the back of the van before he set off from the side of the road. I will refer to the van driver as MR seddon. ( im going to attatch a street veiw picture and diagram wich will be more helpful in understanding how the accident accured ect) .  The owner of the parked car, which i will refer to as Mr simpson came out of his house. Myself, mr seddon and mr simpson exchanged details and took photos, then i left the scene as my first concern, understandably was to contact my midwife and the hospital. I live just round the corner from the scene of the accident so i slowly drove my car to my property. I contacted Go skippy the next day 16/1/21 and informed them of the accident and gave them all the details ect . by the following monday 18/1/21 i had a call from AX who said they was dealing with my claim as go skippy will not deal with it as i am third party insured. Over the next few days, i complied with their requests ( gave them a written statment of what happened, sent them pictures of the damage to my vehicle and mr seddons van ect). Then on the 19/1/21 AX contacted me again and asked if i need a curtesy vehicle, my first response was ' how much will that cost me?' Of which she replied ' nothing because your insurance covers the cost'. I agreed to the curtesy vehicle and the vehicle was delivered to me on the 20/1/21.  Over the coming weeks, AX and i had regular contact about my claim and updated me in regards to my own vehicle. At one point she said it could be deemed a 50/50 liability. an engineer had collectes my car, deemed in a total loss as the damage was more than 66% of its total value and written my car off . i had a call from a lady from AX and she said they have valued the car and i will be payed out £2200 . i asked when and she said ' we will send you a cheque out for £358 in the post, and the remaining balance will be payed out by Admirel but this may take a few weeks more' .  I didnt hear nothing for around 2 weeks so i comtacted AX again for an update, she told me that admirel are refusing liability and there now in dispute. Every time i contacted them they said the same thing ' admirel are refusing liability' i asked them why admirel consider themSelf not liable and she read from the notes ' mr seddon said he was driving along the road, the corsa ( my vehicle) was at high speed coming towards me , i beeped my horn and tried moving out of the way but i couldnt because of the ice and the snow and the corsa hit my van' . the lady at AX said the problem is that the damage to both our vehicles is consistant with both our stories and due to there being no witnesses, no cctv or dash cam footage- no one can prove who is at fault. I then questioned why i had been told i was being paid out £2200 and she said 'well we have to advice you the estimated value' of wich i replied 'no, there was no 'advice' - i was told it was a done deal i was getting paid £2200 and she told me i had a cheque arriving in the post!!!.  The lady then told me she had requested a ' none prejudice payment' from admirel and waiting for a response.   Shortly after this phone call, AX contacted me again and asked if i had the funds to repair my own vehicle or buy another one, ( im.assuming admirel refused to pay the ' none prejudice payment) I told them No i do not as i have a baby due and even if i did have the funds, why on earth would i fork out to repair my own vehicle when i wasnt at fault ?! . she said ok im going to pass this to managment and see what we can do .   I contacted AX again and asked for an update and expressed how unhappy i was with their service as i felt like they hadnt fought my corner, bowed down to admirel and then had the cheek to ask me to repair my own vehicle . again she said ' its still in dispute, admirel are not budging i have to pass this on to management. She then asked me for 3 months bank statements to 'prove' i dont have the funds to repair my vehicle myself. I thought this was ridiculous and stated that even if i had the funds, why would i repair my own vehicle when im.not at fault!? Obviously this has been on going since middle of january, pretty fed up. My brother come to this forum and you guys had mentioned the hire car rates may fall back on me. I contacted AX first thing this morning regarding this. I made it clear that they can collect the vehicle to stop the daily charges as i do not want to be in thousands of pounds worth of debt when i am a lone parent with a new born baby. and the lady told me ' we will try every avenue to recover the cost from Admirel for the hire car charges, if this means taking them to court, even if this is unsuccessful, considering you comply with your hire vehicle contract and you work with us with your claim ( which you have been doing) you will not be liable for this debt and if worst comes to worst and admirel will not pay, we will just wipe the debt off' . i made her repeat several times that i will not be liable for this debt and she said i have told you my name, and these calls are recordered and i am telling you that this debt will not be on you to pay . She then said that if i was to give AX the hire car back now, then it would jepordise everything. And she said ' we gave you that hire vehicle because we beleive your not at fault so you can keep using it as we know you need transport' I then questioned the need for bank statements again and she told me the reason they need bank statements is so if it goes to court - AX can justify why i needed the hire car for so long ( because i didnt have the funds to repair my vehicle or buy another one) and also so they can prove they have tried every root possible.    After the phonecall it got me thinking about how she said ' aslong as you comply with your hire car contract your not liable for any charges for the hire car' . will they find any fault with the contract just to try and lumber me with the debt? , as it seems pretty fishy how they would just ' wipe off' thousands of pounds if admirel refuse to pay.  And also, she said if i gave the hire car back it would jepodise the case . so when the lady rang me the other week asking if i had funds to repair or buy myself a new vehicle , if i had said yes, ill buy a car tomorrow and come collect the curtesy one. Then what? Wouldnt that ' jepodise' the case?    As you can imagaine, my heads spinning. Stressed and dont know what to do. I dont even care about a pay out , i just want to give the hire car back and be completely done with AX . but now im scared if i give the car back i will be lumbered with thousand of pounds worth of debt from the hire car charges.  Tomorow i am going to read thoroughly through the ' hire car contract' . i am going to give them another call and record them saying i am not liable for the debt. Any advice on how i can just give the hire car back to them without me being liable to pay the debt?  Thank you Gemma
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    • Hi,   Well over a year ago, I moved from one area of the UK to another. Where I was moving from ,I had TalkTalk fibre broadband, was happy with them and had no issues.   A week or two before I left, I started planning the whole internet and phone move, called up TalkTalk and found out they weren't able to suplly the fibre where I was moving to. They could only infact offer a minimal ADSL connection.  I said that I would probably cancel it, but I would look into it. Later on the very same day, I foudn out only Virgin and another company had services at the prperty so TalkTalk were out. It called, cancelled propty and left it at that. I eft the new address as a forwarding address for the final bills etc... too.   Months later, a DCA is on my case for the tune of £190 something. I coined them on 1st August, left on 10thish of November. There was an outstanding about £25ish.   I've spoken to thecomplaints department, they were't budging, I've tried the execs and they were the ones that passed it to a DCA, which is about to go nuclear.   Anyway, how it stands now...   Officialy soeaking, if they want to knit-pick, the connection came with a £100  welcome gift card for someone who stayed at least 3 months, which I did..., they werent able to supply the connection, were told to cancel, and planned otherwise. They STILL dont ahve dirisdicton over this buiding so they wouldnt be able to suplly the services.   Now BWLegal claim that theyve repeatedly tried to get ahold of me (lies) about this bill and now they're planning to go legal on 13th March. They literally sent me a  letter with a realistic 1 week notice period on it, but officialy they;ve bacdated it by a month.   SO I'm left in a predicament. I dont want to phone them as I like everyting in writing, because of corona things will be late, so they've literally tried to shaft me here for acontrac thtat doesnt exist.   The  letter they snt me is literaly a "Letter of Claim" with some Citizens advice page attached, income and expenditure forms etc... I refuse to fill ti in as as far as I know, this is resolved, or at the wosrst there's a small sum outstanding.    Or I could be really brutal and be clear and say they owe me 60-80 for the gift card, but I dont really care about that.   I've literally jstu found a good job after a long horrible period and it feels like they're using the upcoming "freedom" as a reason to start their antics.   All they ask for to stop the legal action is a "reason" ut it appears they''ve gota 3rd hand account that's been sold around as it's in some name like JC International now?   Shoud I:   1) Ignore them and contact TT directly? I've got the executive email address so usually get a swift response.  2) Treat it as any other hot air DCA's blow out ? No proof has been given o far, no copies of paperwork, so it's just  "pay now, this much" letter. 3) Make an example of this and let it do to court, explain to the courts what's going on and let them deal with the issue?   What concerns me is their underhanded tactics....   Anyway, any help would help...   Cheers, Ade
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OPS/gladstone PCN PAPLOC now claimform - <10mins CCTV passenger leaving car - Broadwater Street West, Worthing


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you do not use email!

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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It usually means that they do not have at least one of the documents which means that there is no contract between them and the motorist. That is good for you.   When doing your WS you can s

I hope you get DDJ Harvey!

ig and nore.   word is they are getting rather desperate for money as no-one is using their cars much at present...

like most OPS contracts they don't exist or are fake.

their WS will be interesting..

 

do not file yours before you get theirs.

 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks @brassnecked would be interesting to hear other thoughts on this!

 

Okay @dx100uk  won't file mine until I see theirs, has to be 7 days before the court date correct? Also the reason I am emailing (the court - not OPS!) as I am overseas so cannot guarantee post from here will make it there in time, especially with Corona / Christmas post added into the equation!

 

Regards seeing OPS WS, how does that work - should they post it to me? Do I need to provide them with mine or only to the court please? If I do need to provide anything to OPS it will also be email as again I am o/s (I will set up a new specific OPS alternative email address that isn't my usual mail, I have blocked them there already!) 

 

Thanks again all - take care!

 

RATPCN

 

 

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i can see your issues, however OPS will come up with a pack of lies and fake documents within their WS as they always do.

this is evidenced by the other OPS claimform threads here which sadly all the OP's have failed to update them!!

 

if they have an email AD for you, they will do this 1 min before the deadline giving you no chance to counter them in yours.

something that i think with their past history is very important.

yes you can email the court yours.

 

on the N157 from the court it will give the timescale for WS exchange, i believe that is typically 14days not 7?

 

 

 

 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks again @dx100uk spot on with the 14 days!

 

As such I have begun drafting my WS, will be going back to m1n1me's for more and having a trawl through others I can find on CAG as suggested as well as previous advice on this thread 🙂 and also including the previously recommended claim from Lewes (Brighton) County Court where my Claim will also be heard

 

Would welcome any feedback from caggers on this thread and beyond on my formative WS

 

1.     It is admitted that Defendant is the recorded keeper of [motor vehicle].

 

2.     It is denied that the Defendant parked on site without pre-authorization at XXXXXXXXXXXX at the times mentioned in the Exhibit List. 

 

3.     It is denied that the Claimant entered into a contract with the Defendant. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the carpark is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. The proper Claimant is the landowner.

 

4.     It is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. The contract for the provision of parking management services the Claimant provided to POPLA and has failed to provide to the Defendant references the Client & supposed landowner XXXXXXXXXX who were declared insolvent in April 2016 and dissolved August 2017.

 

 

5.     The Defendant contends that the Claimant has no authority or agency to do such therefore there can be no claim. The Defendant also contends the wording of signage supplied after the event which states “parking is permitted for…vehicles parked wholly within their allocated space”. As the Exhibit List demonstrate the vehicle was clearly not parked wholly within any space, evidently as there was never any intention to park at the location. 

 

6.     The Claimant has failed to show the Defendant, upon request under CPR 31.14, any authority or agency to enter into contracts with the public by way of an assignment from the proprietor to do the same and to make civil claims in their own name or any other documents pursuant to CPR31.14. The Defendant informed the Claimant’s refusal to comply would be referred against the Claimant in any defence. 

 

7.     It is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. The contract for the provision of parking management services the Claimant provided to POPLA not the Defendant references the Client & supposed landowner XXXXXXXXXX who were declared insolvent in April 2016 and dissolved August 2017.

 

 

8.     The Claimant entered a contract with the Client stating fees for the PCN’s will not exceed any ATA code of conduct. ATA Code of Conduct 23.1b states this sum must not exceed 70GBP unless prior approval from the BPA has been granted. Thus the claimant is in breach of their BPA Code of Practice.

 

9.     The Claimant is again in breach of their BPA CoP as they have not allowed the minimum grace period of 10 minutes as illustrated in the Exhibit List to be considered in any correspondence, appeal or complaint against them. The Exhibit List will show that the time period was five minutes one second.  The ten minute grace period is a matter of law as decided in the Beavis case… 

 

 

10.  The Claimant has failed to show, upon request under CPR 31.14, any evidence of planning permission for installation of cameras and signage under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007.

11.  The Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

 

 

 

Thanks again,

 

 

RATPCN

 

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What you've written in itself is fine but in needs to be split up into comprehensible sections, such as

   - grace period & CoP (IMO at the top as this is one of your most important points)

   - it wasn't a parking event

   - they have no locus standi

   - POFA (but IIRC you outed yourself as the driver, right?  If so drop this section)

   - no planning permission so illegal contract

   - £60 unicorn food tax.

 

Etc.

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@FTMDave I'd hoped so too but looks like someone else handling, thanks for the input, it was very much lacking structure was just trying to note down all the right elements! 

 

Should I also include a sequence of events piece similar to m1n1me's approach? 

 

Thanks again!

 

RATPCN

 

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The finasl part of that Lewes Judgment regarding the Unicorn Feed tax, is worth slipping in somewhere about the addition of any "Admin" or other DCA fees to a claim is abuse of process, as only the driver can be sued for such .

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Just spoke to CC and OPS have not filed anything yet, deadline is 4PM tomorrow.

 

Will try and get my redacted WS and Exhibit List up here later today for any feedback from you wonderful caggers 🙂

 

@FTMDave you are correct outed myself as driver at appeals stage as never thought things would get this far, assumed appeal would be successful due to Grace Period and being honest about who was driving was right approach!

 

Apologies I am not sure which part of my WS references POFA that should be removed? Can you just confirm that for me please! 

 

Thank you!

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Sorry RATPCN, my bad, you've not mentioned POFA in your WS so you don't need to change anything.

 

I was just making the general point that it would be better to order the WS into sections each of which deal with different points of law, it would be easier for the judge to see the legal arguments you're making.

 

BTW, your paragraphs 4 & 7 are duplicates.

 

Yes, it might be worth sticking in a quick introduction describing what happened, then you briefly entered the site but never parked and left well within the grace period.

 

 

 

 

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Evening All,

 

PFA redacted WS and EL, hoping these will be sufficient to defend my case, yet to add a sequence of events section to WS which I will do tomorrow before sending off to CC and can try to post here for your kind review?

 

Should I also send to OPS at the deadline, I have still received nothing at all from them - or if they don't provide me their WS and EL I duly don't provide mine? 

 

Approaching the end game now! 

 

 

Thanks!

 

RATPCN

Exhibit List Redacted.pdf Witness Statement Redacted.pdf

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hold until after midnight UK time 

see if they email theirs.

 

would good if they did then we can rejig yours if necessary wont hurt being a bit late you are a LiP.

 

dx

 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Well done with the WS.  It's straight to the point and succinct (which will go down well with the judge) unlike the pages & pages of tripe that OPS will send (if they actually do get off their backsides and send something).  A few small suggestions ...

 

I would move current paragraph 9 to fit in after paragraph 6, and touch the paragraphs up so they read coherently.  It seems to me that current paragraph 9 belongs in that part which is dealing with the "no parking event" argument.

 

In paragraph 6 you mention the driver leaving the car for under five seconds.  Does this show up in the POPLA appeal or their images?  If so, OK, but it could undermine the "no parking" argument and if it could be left out it would be better.

 

In paragraph 11 draw the conclusion at the end.  "Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence and makes it impossible for the defendant to have entered into a contract with the claimant".  

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Those changes look good FTMDave.  Wonder if they will bottle it and not submit anything  or send  last minute email?  might be better as DX says to use the wait a bit as LIP.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Thanks all, will move the points around - I was moving the paragraphs around like pieces on a chess board at times today!

 

Yes @FTMDave the driver (myself) got out of the drivers side, and took something out / put something into the drivers side rear door I think / checked for something on the back seat - I can't remember what for the life of me what it was but did not leave the vehicle and pretty sure photographic evidence has open doors at all times so vehicle not left unattended and secure at any point!

 

In fact they are as follow - 16:21.55 stood leaning into back door, 16:22.01 stepping away from back door having shut it, 16:22.04 getting back in front door. 

 

It's not included in the POPLA appeal but the images I have for this come from my SARs request w/ POPLA.

 

POPLA denied my appeal on the following 

 

At the time of contravention the vehicle was not authorised to park on site as they were not given pre- authorisation by One Parking Solution prior to parking on site. A grace period is provided to allow a motorist to review the terms and conditions and decide whether or not to remain on site. As you made use of the facilities to check your GoogleMaps and wait for your wife to return from the coffee shop the grace period does not apply.

 

As mentioned earlier in the thread I'd taken a wrong turn, saw what I thought was a side road (which turned out to be an OPS killing field) next to a parade of shops my wife alighted 16:19.17 as she'd spotted a Starbucks, I turned around and stopped to check my directions and she returned to the vehicle and left the location 16:23.15

 

What does LiP stand for please @brassnecked / @dx100uk? Thanks!

 

Night folks, until tomorrow...

 

RATPCN

 

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Well therefore how about

 

It is denied that the Defendant parked on site without pre-authorization at XXXXXXXXXXXX at the times mentioned in Exhibit 5. This was not a parking event. Photographic evidence Exhibit 6 confirms the Defendant was turning around and did not leave the vehicle for more than 5 seconds and simply to move an object from the front seat to the rear seat with the engine running, which clearly would not have been enough time to read the terms and conditions of a “parking contract” therefore no contract was instigated under BPA Code 30.1.7.

 

I'm probably going OTT but hey, in my job I always say it's better to prepare too much than too little, better that the surprises are good ones rather than bad ones!  It just crossed my mind that OPS could use this "leaving the vehicle" against you.  They're almost certainly too stupid to realise but hey ...

 

If no-one has any other alterations to suggest, get the WS off tomorrow.

 

LiP is "Litigant in Person", i.e. not a company or someone represented by a solicitor, and if you make tiny mistakes in the procedure the judge is supposed to allow you leeway.

Edited by FTMDave
Usual typo!
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i don't believe the grace period, or the use of it, is defined anywhere...nor what it can or can't be used for...it's just the fact that it exists.

else some other PPC would have already gone there and lots of claims would have been countered using those words, ...its only to read the t&c's.. never seen that stated before and it needs a mention in your WS.

 

ps i've not read your ws too busy...sorry do it later if i can.

 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks everyone, 

 

I have just submitted WS and EL to CC,

 

I have still received nothing from OPS, I have asked the CC email team to confirm if they have? 

 

As previously mentioned I will be emailing OPS my documents from a dummy email, but was advised to wait until I had received theirs? 

 

Do I hold fast? What if they don't provide them to me? 

 

Thanks as ever Caggers!!

 

RATPCN

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I don't think it makes much odds now.

 

The tactic of waiting for OPS' WS was so you could counter their lies in your own WS.  But as you've sent your WS to the court that's it, the WS is finished.  You might as well send yours to OPS now. 

 

If OPS mess you around by not providing their WS they are digging their own grave!

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missing_ops_WSs_investigator....😀

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I would add that in order to qualify for data from the DVLA they must comply with the Code of Conduct. 

 

BPA  Code of Conduct 

Glossary

A Parking Accredited Trade Association (ATA) A parking operator must be a member of an Accredited Trade Association (ATA) that is recognised by the DVLA to be able to request the Registered Keeper’s details if they have ‘reasonable cause’.

AOS The Approved Operator Scheme (AOS) is the BPA’s Accredited Trade Association for people and organisations that undertake management of parking on private land. Members of the AOS must adhere to the BPA AOS Code of Practice. 

 

 

It calls into question their ability to use the DVLA for information.

I know that you have sent your WS but should your case end up in Court [and it may well not ]

then include the above.

Edited by lookinforinfo
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