OPS/gladstone PCN PAPLOC now claimform - <10mins CCTV passenger leaving car - Broadwater Street West, Worthing

[dx100uk]

you do not use email!

 

dx

 

[dx100uk]

like most OPS contracts they don't exist or are fake.

their WS will be interesting..

 

do not file yours before you get theirs.

 

[RageAgainstThePCN]

Thanks @brassnecked would be interesting to hear other thoughts on this!

 

Okay @dx100uk  won't file mine until I see theirs, has to be 7 days before the court date correct? Also the reason I am emailing (the court - not OPS!) as I am overseas so cannot guarantee post from here will make it there in time, especially with Corona / Christmas post added into the equation!

 

Regards seeing OPS WS, how does that work - should they post it to me? Do I need to provide them with mine or only to the court please? If I do need to provide anything to OPS it will also be email as again I am o/s (I will set up a new specific OPS alternative email address that isn't my usual mail, I have blocked them there already!) 

 

Thanks again all - take care!

 

RATPCN

 

 

[dx100uk]

i can see your issues, however OPS will come up with a pack of lies and fake documents within their WS as they always do.

this is evidenced by the other OPS claimform threads here which sadly all the OP's have failed to update them!!

 

if they have an email AD for you, they will do this 1 min before the deadline giving you no chance to counter them in yours.

something that i think with their past history is very important.

yes you can email the court yours.

 

on the N157 from the court it will give the timescale for WS exchange, i believe that is typically 14days not 7?

 

 

 

 

[RageAgainstThePCN]

Thanks again @dx100uk spot on with the 14 days!

 

As such I have begun drafting my WS, will be going back to m1n1me's for more and having a trawl through others I can find on CAG as suggested as well as previous advice on this thread  and also including the previously recommended claim from Lewes (Brighton) County Court where my Claim will also be heard

 

Would welcome any feedback from caggers on this thread and beyond on my formative WS

 

1.     It is admitted that Defendant is the recorded keeper of [motor vehicle].

 

2.     It is denied that the Defendant parked on site without pre-authorization at XXXXXXXXXXXX at the times mentioned in the Exhibit List. 

 

3.     It is denied that the Claimant entered into a contract with the Defendant. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the carpark is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. The proper Claimant is the landowner.

 

4.     It is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. The contract for the provision of parking management services the Claimant provided to POPLA and has failed to provide to the Defendant references the Client & supposed landowner XXXXXXXXXX who were declared insolvent in April 2016 and dissolved August 2017.

 

 

5.     The Defendant contends that the Claimant has no authority or agency to do such therefore there can be no claim. The Defendant also contends the wording of signage supplied after the event which states “parking is permitted for…vehicles parked wholly within their allocated space”. As the Exhibit List demonstrate the vehicle was clearly not parked wholly within any space, evidently as there was never any intention to park at the location. 

 

6.     The Claimant has failed to show the Defendant, upon request under CPR 31.14, any authority or agency to enter into contracts with the public by way of an assignment from the proprietor to do the same and to make civil claims in their own name or any other documents pursuant to CPR31.14. The Defendant informed the Claimant’s refusal to comply would be referred against the Claimant in any defence. 

 

7.     It is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. The contract for the provision of parking management services the Claimant provided to POPLA not the Defendant references the Client & supposed landowner XXXXXXXXXX who were declared insolvent in April 2016 and dissolved August 2017.

 

 

8.     The Claimant entered a contract with the Client stating fees for the PCN’s will not exceed any ATA code of conduct. ATA Code of Conduct 23.1b states this sum must not exceed 70GBP unless prior approval from the BPA has been granted. Thus the claimant is in breach of their BPA Code of Practice.

 

9.     The Claimant is again in breach of their BPA CoP as they have not allowed the minimum grace period of 10 minutes as illustrated in the Exhibit List to be considered in any correspondence, appeal or complaint against them. The Exhibit List will show that the time period was five minutes one second.  The ten minute grace period is a matter of law as decided in the Beavis case… 

 

 

10.  The Claimant has failed to show, upon request under CPR 31.14, any evidence of planning permission for installation of cameras and signage under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007.

11.  The Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

 

 

 

Thanks again,

 

 

RATPCN

 

[FTMDave]

I hope you get DDJ Harvey!

[FTMDave]

What you've written in itself is fine but in needs to be split up into comprehensible sections, such as

   - grace period & CoP (IMO at the top as this is one of your most important points)

   - it wasn't a parking event

   - they have no locus standi

   - POFA (but IIRC you outed yourself as the driver, right?  If so drop this section)

   - no planning permission so illegal contract

   - £60 unicorn food tax.

 

Etc.

[RageAgainstThePCN]

@FTMDave I'd hoped so too but looks like someone else handling, thanks for the input, it was very much lacking structure was just trying to note down all the right elements! 

 

Should I also include a sequence of events piece similar to m1n1me's approach? 

 

Thanks again!

 

RATPCN

 

[brassnecked]

The finasl part of that Lewes Judgment regarding the Unicorn Feed tax, is worth slipping in somewhere about the addition of any "Admin" or other DCA fees to a claim is abuse of process, as only the driver can be sued for such .

[RageAgainstThePCN]

Just spoke to CC and OPS have not filed anything yet, deadline is 4PM tomorrow.

 

Will try and get my redacted WS and Exhibit List up here later today for any feedback from you wonderful caggers 

 

@FTMDave you are correct outed myself as driver at appeals stage as never thought things would get this far, assumed appeal would be successful due to Grace Period and being honest about who was driving was right approach!

 

Apologies I am not sure which part of my WS references POFA that should be removed? Can you just confirm that for me please! 

 

Thank you!

[FTMDave]

Sorry RATPCN, my bad, you've not mentioned POFA in your WS so you don't need to change anything.

 

I was just making the general point that it would be better to order the WS into sections each of which deal with different points of law, it would be easier for the judge to see the legal arguments you're making.

 

BTW, your paragraphs 4 & 7 are duplicates.

 

Yes, it might be worth sticking in a quick introduction describing what happened, then you briefly entered the site but never parked and left well within the grace period.

 

 

 

 

[RageAgainstThePCN]

Evening All,

 

PFA redacted WS and EL, hoping these will be sufficient to defend my case, yet to add a sequence of events section to WS which I will do tomorrow before sending off to CC and can try to post here for your kind review?

 

Should I also send to OPS at the deadline, I have still received nothing at all from them - or if they don't provide me their WS and EL I duly don't provide mine? 

 

Approaching the end game now! 

 

 

Thanks!

 

RATPCN

Exhibit List Redacted.pdf Witness Statement Redacted.pdf

[dx100uk]

hold until after midnight UK time 

see if they email theirs.

 

would good if they did then we can rejig yours if necessary wont hurt being a bit late you are a LiP.

 

dx

 

[FTMDave]

Well done with the WS.  It's straight to the point and succinct (which will go down well with the judge) unlike the pages & pages of tripe that OPS will send (if they actually do get off their backsides and send something).  A few small suggestions ...

 

I would move current paragraph 9 to fit in after paragraph 6, and touch the paragraphs up so they read coherently.  It seems to me that current paragraph 9 belongs in that part which is dealing with the "no parking event" argument.

 

In paragraph 6 you mention the driver leaving the car for under five seconds.  Does this show up in the POPLA appeal or their images?  If so, OK, but it could undermine the "no parking" argument and if it could be left out it would be better.

 

In paragraph 11 draw the conclusion at the end.  "Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence and makes it impossible for the defendant to have entered into a contract with the claimant".  

[brassnecked]

Those changes look good FTMDave.  Wonder if they will bottle it and not submit anything  or send  last minute email?  might be better as DX says to use the wait a bit as LIP.

[RageAgainstThePCN]

Thanks all, will move the points around - I was moving the paragraphs around like pieces on a chess board at times today!

 

Yes @FTMDave the driver (myself) got out of the drivers side, and took something out / put something into the drivers side rear door I think / checked for something on the back seat - I can't remember what for the life of me what it was but did not leave the vehicle and pretty sure photographic evidence has open doors at all times so vehicle not left unattended and secure at any point!

 

In fact they are as follow - 16:21.55 stood leaning into back door, 16:22.01 stepping away from back door having shut it, 16:22.04 getting back in front door. 

 

It's not included in the POPLA appeal but the images I have for this come from my SARs request w/ POPLA.

 

POPLA denied my appeal on the following 

 

At the time of contravention the vehicle was not authorised to park on site as they were not given pre- authorisation by One Parking Solution prior to parking on site. A grace period is provided to allow a motorist to review the terms and conditions and decide whether or not to remain on site. As you made use of the facilities to check your GoogleMaps and wait for your wife to return from the coffee shop the grace period does not apply.

 

As mentioned earlier in the thread I'd taken a wrong turn, saw what I thought was a side road (which turned out to be an OPS killing field) next to a parade of shops my wife alighted 16:19.17 as she'd spotted a Starbucks, I turned around and stopped to check my directions and she returned to the vehicle and left the location 16:23.15

 

What does LiP stand for please @brassnecked / @dx100uk? Thanks!

 

Night folks, until tomorrow...

 

RATPCN

 

[FTMDave]

Well therefore how about

 

It is denied that the Defendant parked on site without pre-authorization at XXXXXXXXXXXX at the times mentioned in Exhibit 5. This was not a parking event. Photographic evidence Exhibit 6 confirms the Defendant was turning around and did not leave the vehicle for more than 5 seconds and simply to move an object from the front seat to the rear seat with the engine running, which clearly would not have been enough time to read the terms and conditions of a “parking contract” therefore no contract was instigated under BPA Code 30.1.7.

 

I'm probably going OTT but hey, in my job I always say it's better to prepare too much than too little, better that the surprises are good ones rather than bad ones!  It just crossed my mind that OPS could use this "leaving the vehicle" against you.  They're almost certainly too stupid to realise but hey ...

 

If no-one has any other alterations to suggest, get the WS off tomorrow.

 

LiP is "Litigant in Person", i.e. not a company or someone represented by a solicitor, and if you make tiny mistakes in the procedure the judge is supposed to allow you leeway.

Edited November 24, 2020 by FTMDave
Usual typo!

[dx100uk]

i don't believe the grace period, or the use of it, is defined anywhere...nor what it can or can't be used for...it's just the fact that it exists.

else some other PPC would have already gone there and lots of claims would have been countered using those words, ...its only to read the t&c's.. never seen that stated before and it needs a mention in your WS.

 

ps i've not read your ws too busy...sorry do it later if i can.

 

[honeybee13]

Here's a link to the forum sticky with abbreviations, in case you haven't seen it. I've added LiP.

 

 

HB

[RageAgainstThePCN]

Thanks everyone, 

 

I have just submitted WS and EL to CC,

 

I have still received nothing from OPS, I have asked the CC email team to confirm if they have? 

 

As previously mentioned I will be emailing OPS my documents from a dummy email, but was advised to wait until I had received theirs? 

 

Do I hold fast? What if they don't provide them to me? 

 

Thanks as ever Caggers!!

 

RATPCN

[FTMDave]

I don't think it makes much odds now.

 

The tactic of waiting for OPS' WS was so you could counter their lies in your own WS.  But as you've sent your WS to the court that's it, the WS is finished.  You might as well send yours to OPS now. 

 

If OPS mess you around by not providing their WS they are digging their own grave!

[RageAgainstThePCN]

Okay @FTMDave received and understood! 

 

Any suggestions for my dummy email name? 
 

putthatinyourOPS@hotmail

 

0121doone@gmail

 

cowboyparkingparasites@live 

 

Thanks again everyone, fingers crossed for the court date!

 

RATPCN

[dx100uk]

missing_ops_WSs_investigator....

[FTMDave]

DDJHarveyfan@

 

ThrashedagaininLewes@

[lookinforinfo]

I would add that in order to qualify for data from the DVLA they must comply with the Code of Conduct. 

 

BPA  Code of Conduct 

Glossary

A Parking Accredited Trade Association (ATA) A parking operator must be a member of an Accredited Trade Association (ATA) that is recognised by the DVLA to be able to request the Registered Keeper’s details if they have ‘reasonable cause’.

AOS The Approved Operator Scheme (AOS) is the BPA’s Accredited Trade Association for people and organisations that undertake management of parking on private land. Members of the AOS must adhere to the BPA AOS Code of Practice. 

 

 

It calls into question their ability to use the DVLA for information.

I know that you have sent your WS but should your case end up in Court [and it may well not ]

then include the above.

Edited November 26, 2020 by lookinforinfo