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WILKINSS208

Paragon loan old ccj - they refused CCA can i set aside

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CAN ANYONE, HELP PLEASE. I SENT MY CCA OFF TO PARAGON AND THIS IS THEIR REPLY.....HOW CAN I ANSWER THIS AND IS THIS CORRECT??

 

 

Dear Mrs Wilkins

I have taken advice on your letter received into this office on 30 August 2007. There is no obligation on us to produce a copy of the actual agreement.

 

Sextion 77 of the CCA imposes an obligation to supply a copy of the executed agreement. section 180 of the act provides for the making of regulations governing the form and content of copy agreements and pursuant to the asection, the consumer credit (cancellation notices and copies of documents) regulations were introduced in 1983.

 

regulation 3 (2) expressly provides a copy need not be an exact copy of the agreement signed, in that we are permitted to exclude from the copy:

 

a) any details furnished by the customer (for example, any information required to underwrite the case and included in the agreement)

b) any signature boxes, signature of date of signature and

c) in certains cases, the customers name and address

 

in short, we have to provide a true copy of the financial particulars inlcuded in the agreement but not the actual agreement signed by you


HALIFAX: PRE 6 year claim 1991-2006 WON 21/3/07 £2616

CAPITAL 1 - WON 19/3/07 £800.22

CAPITAL 1 - WON 19/3/07 £325.75

AQUA - MCOL 2/3/07 £172.79

ABBEY - MCOL 2/3/07 £261.37

HALIFAX VISA - WON default removal 19/3/07

PARAGON - LBA 11/3/07

CABOT -SAR 26/2/07

ROCKWELL -OFFER 20/2/07

GMAC -MCOL 7/2/07 £189.85

WESTCOT - SAR 25/2/07

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CAN ANYONE, HELP PLEASE. I SENT MY CCA OFF TO PARAGON AND THIS IS THEIR REPLY.....HOW CAN I ANSWER THIS AND IS THIS CORRECT??

 

 

Dear Mrs Wilkins

I have taken advice on your letter received into this office on 30 August 2007. There is no obligation on us to produce a copy of the actual agreement.

 

Sextion 77 of the CCA imposes an obligation to supply a copy of the executed agreement. section 180 of the act provides for the making of regulations governing the form and content of copy agreements and pursuant to the asection, the consumer credit (cancellation notices and copies of documents) regulations were introduced in 1983.

 

regulation 3 (2) expressly provides a copy need not be an exact copy of the agreement signed, in that we are permitted to exclude from the copy:

 

a) any details furnished by the customer (for example, any information required to underwrite the case and included in the agreement)

b) any signature boxes, signature of date of signature and

c) in certains cases, the customers name and address

 

in short, we have to provide a true copy of the financial particulars inlcuded in the agreement but not the actual agreement signed by you

 

 

Hi,

 

 

Just let them go into criminal default, and then report them to Trading Standards!

 

 

Regards, Jeff.

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Similar to what i got Wilkins, and im complaining to the FOS. Ask them for a final decision on the matter (saying that you do not acknowledge the debt) and tell them you will be asking the FOS to sort it out. They have 8 weeks i think.

 

Strictly speaking i think they are right, and they dont have to provide a signature, but in court they would need one to enforce the debt (signed copy, obviously). If you can show that you asked for this many times and it does go to court, should they whip out said agreement, you can argue that you asked for this repeatedly and they are deliberately wasting the courts time.

 

Good luck

:D

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when you say FOS, what address did you use?

also, i am currently paying them £35 per month as have CCJ against this account will i still pay this until this case closed?


HALIFAX: PRE 6 year claim 1991-2006 WON 21/3/07 £2616

CAPITAL 1 - WON 19/3/07 £800.22

CAPITAL 1 - WON 19/3/07 £325.75

AQUA - MCOL 2/3/07 £172.79

ABBEY - MCOL 2/3/07 £261.37

HALIFAX VISA - WON default removal 19/3/07

PARAGON - LBA 11/3/07

CABOT -SAR 26/2/07

ROCKWELL -OFFER 20/2/07

GMAC -MCOL 7/2/07 £189.85

WESTCOT - SAR 25/2/07

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if i already have a CCJ against this account, would they of had to show this to court?


HALIFAX: PRE 6 year claim 1991-2006 WON 21/3/07 £2616

CAPITAL 1 - WON 19/3/07 £800.22

CAPITAL 1 - WON 19/3/07 £325.75

AQUA - MCOL 2/3/07 £172.79

ABBEY - MCOL 2/3/07 £261.37

HALIFAX VISA - WON default removal 19/3/07

PARAGON - LBA 11/3/07

CABOT -SAR 26/2/07

ROCKWELL -OFFER 20/2/07

GMAC -MCOL 7/2/07 £189.85

WESTCOT - SAR 25/2/07

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Have they supplied the financial details.


An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />

Winston Churchill

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when you say FOS, what address did you use?

also, i am currently paying them £35 per month as have CCJ against this account will i still pay this until this case closed?

 

Yes, you must maintain the payments


An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />

Winston Churchill

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Have they supplied the financial details.

 

 

yes they supplied other details and total of £993 bank charges to claim back too including interest!!!

 

What is the best way to tackle this? Will i continue until default then report, write to them stating dont have debt, or something else.....

 

I really appreciate all your help, thank you :)


HALIFAX: PRE 6 year claim 1991-2006 WON 21/3/07 £2616

CAPITAL 1 - WON 19/3/07 £800.22

CAPITAL 1 - WON 19/3/07 £325.75

AQUA - MCOL 2/3/07 £172.79

ABBEY - MCOL 2/3/07 £261.37

HALIFAX VISA - WON default removal 19/3/07

PARAGON - LBA 11/3/07

CABOT -SAR 26/2/07

ROCKWELL -OFFER 20/2/07

GMAC -MCOL 7/2/07 £189.85

WESTCOT - SAR 25/2/07

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if i already have a CCJ against this account, would they of had to show this to court?

 

 

Not if the judgement was either by default or alternatively the debtor didn't ask for its disclosure

 

Keep paying the CCJ amount as that is different from cases where there is no CCJ.


You may receive different advice to your query as people have different experiences and opinions. Please use your own judgement in deciding whose advice to take.

 

If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional. Any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability.

 

If you think I have been helpful PLEASE click the scales

 

court bundles for dummies

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when you say FOS, what address did you use?

also, i am currently paying them £35 per month as have CCJ against this account will i still pay this until this case closed?

 

 

Go onto the Financial ombudsmans website for form or alternatively ring them on 0845 080 1800 & they will take details and send partially completed form out to you.

 

They may say at fiirst they can't act but they took responsibbility for this from Ap[ril this year


You may receive different advice to your query as people have different experiences and opinions. Please use your own judgement in deciding whose advice to take.

 

If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional. Any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability.

 

If you think I have been helpful PLEASE click the scales

 

court bundles for dummies

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You can say that you are not certain that the document provided to you contains the same details as the one that you signed, and as you do not have a copy of the original yourself, you can not verify this. Say that you wish to see the original with your signature to verify the details provided.

 

You will need to carry on paying the CCJ, but I believe you have course of action if they say they do not have the original.

 

You can also send and SAR, takes a bit longer but they must include the actual copy with your signature.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk


I think it would be a good idea.

Mahatma Gandhi when asked what he thought of Western civilization

 

Advice & opinions of MoonHawk are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability.

Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any doubts.

 

Lloyds TSB - Unlawful charges - Settled £8,807.68

Motor Help UK - Misrepesentation Act - Settled £111.25 (Thread Here)

Next Directory court action without a CCA for £605 - Settled & account closed (Thread Here)

CABOT - Can not produce CCA and refusing to accept it - In progress

Aktiv Kapital - Can not produce CCA and also refusing to accept it - In progress

Barclaycard - Can not produce CCA for an account of £2,000. After a long fight used CPR - Settled

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great thanks, should i do this now or when its in default.

when filling in form how much do i need to detail


HALIFAX: PRE 6 year claim 1991-2006 WON 21/3/07 £2616

CAPITAL 1 - WON 19/3/07 £800.22

CAPITAL 1 - WON 19/3/07 £325.75

AQUA - MCOL 2/3/07 £172.79

ABBEY - MCOL 2/3/07 £261.37

HALIFAX VISA - WON default removal 19/3/07

PARAGON - LBA 11/3/07

CABOT -SAR 26/2/07

ROCKWELL -OFFER 20/2/07

GMAC -MCOL 7/2/07 £189.85

WESTCOT - SAR 25/2/07

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You can say that you are not certain that the document provided to you contains the same details as the one that you signed, and as you do not have a copy of the original yourself, you can not verify this. Say that you wish to see the original with your signature to verify the details provided.

 

You will need to carry on paying the CCJ, but I believe you have course of action if they say they do not have the original.

 

You can also send and S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), takes a bit longer but they must include the actual copy with your signature.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

 

hi

thanks

i have sent off a SAR which I received a reply. The agreement WAS BLANK, no signature in box!


HALIFAX: PRE 6 year claim 1991-2006 WON 21/3/07 £2616

CAPITAL 1 - WON 19/3/07 £800.22

CAPITAL 1 - WON 19/3/07 £325.75

AQUA - MCOL 2/3/07 £172.79

ABBEY - MCOL 2/3/07 £261.37

HALIFAX VISA - WON default removal 19/3/07

PARAGON - LBA 11/3/07

CABOT -SAR 26/2/07

ROCKWELL -OFFER 20/2/07

GMAC -MCOL 7/2/07 £189.85

WESTCOT - SAR 25/2/07

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In that case you can write to them and ask them to categorically say that they have a signed executed agreement as you do not remember signing one. If they say yes, they are in trouble as they did not give you it in the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request). If they say no then you can proceed to court to get your CCJ overturned I think. A legal bod should be able to say how you can do that.

 

You may also want to read Another Cabot Case.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk


I think it would be a good idea.

Mahatma Gandhi when asked what he thought of Western civilization

 

Advice & opinions of MoonHawk are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability.

Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any doubts.

 

Lloyds TSB - Unlawful charges - Settled £8,807.68

Motor Help UK - Misrepesentation Act - Settled £111.25 (Thread Here)

Next Directory court action without a CCA for £605 - Settled & account closed (Thread Here)

CABOT - Can not produce CCA and refusing to accept it - In progress

Aktiv Kapital - Can not produce CCA and also refusing to accept it - In progress

Barclaycard - Can not produce CCA for an account of £2,000. After a long fight used CPR - Settled

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thats great news! thank you so much. i will do that now. any idea of how i can word this as not good with letters. also, will i put without prej. on it?


HALIFAX: PRE 6 year claim 1991-2006 WON 21/3/07 £2616

CAPITAL 1 - WON 19/3/07 £800.22

CAPITAL 1 - WON 19/3/07 £325.75

AQUA - MCOL 2/3/07 £172.79

ABBEY - MCOL 2/3/07 £261.37

HALIFAX VISA - WON default removal 19/3/07

PARAGON - LBA 11/3/07

CABOT -SAR 26/2/07

ROCKWELL -OFFER 20/2/07

GMAC -MCOL 7/2/07 £189.85

WESTCOT - SAR 25/2/07

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No need for 'without prejudice' afaik, but if you have a CCJ on the account hasnt it already been contested in court ??? I dont think they wouldnt have CCJ'd you without proof of account ownership ?!?!

 

Im sure i read that somewhere but i could be wrong.

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No need for 'without prejudice' afaik, but if you have a CCJ on the account hasnt it already been contested in court ??? I dont think they wouldnt have CCJ'd you without proof of account ownership ?!?!

 

Im sure i read that somewhere but i could be wrong.

 

No they can get a CCJ without proof. If the claim is not contested then the judgment goes in by default. Most people don't contest them as they do not know how and also do not turn up, so a judgment is applied without anyone even turning up. The finance companies mostly rely on this to happen and know how to use the court process.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk


I think it would be a good idea.

Mahatma Gandhi when asked what he thought of Western civilization

 

Advice & opinions of MoonHawk are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability.

Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any doubts.

 

Lloyds TSB - Unlawful charges - Settled £8,807.68

Motor Help UK - Misrepesentation Act - Settled £111.25 (Thread Here)

Next Directory court action without a CCA for £605 - Settled & account closed (Thread Here)

CABOT - Can not produce CCA and refusing to accept it - In progress

Aktiv Kapital - Can not produce CCA and also refusing to accept it - In progress

Barclaycard - Can not produce CCA for an account of £2,000. After a long fight used CPR - Settled

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thats great news! thank you so much. i will do that now. any idea of how i can word this as not good with letters. also, will i put without prej. on it?

If no-one has helped in the next couple of days with the wording, drop me pm and I'll try my best to help, although a legal bod may be better in my opinion. I have a few things on over the next two days and can only do quick responses when taking breaks :)

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk


I think it would be a good idea.

Mahatma Gandhi when asked what he thought of Western civilization

 

Advice & opinions of MoonHawk are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability.

Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any doubts.

 

Lloyds TSB - Unlawful charges - Settled £8,807.68

Motor Help UK - Misrepesentation Act - Settled £111.25 (Thread Here)

Next Directory court action without a CCA for £605 - Settled & account closed (Thread Here)

CABOT - Can not produce CCA and refusing to accept it - In progress

Aktiv Kapital - Can not produce CCA and also refusing to accept it - In progress

Barclaycard - Can not produce CCA for an account of £2,000. After a long fight used CPR - Settled

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Yup, i remember that bit as well now you mention it MoonHawk, good call.

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If no-one has helped in the next couple of days with the wording, drop me pm and I'll try my best to help, although a legal bod may be better in my opinion. I have a few things on over the next two days and can only do quick responses when taking breaks :)

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

 

Imo the way forward now is for a setaside application on the basis that the judgment was obtained in error without the debtor and the court in possession of the full facts, ie no signed agreement. A request could also be made under sec 141 that the agreement is unenfoceable by virtue of 127 (3) CCA 1974.

 

I'm no legal bod.

 

Paul


An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />

Winston Churchill

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paul

how do i do that then? i am so sorry, never done this before. done bank charges which you helped a lot with but never done this. :confused:


HALIFAX: PRE 6 year claim 1991-2006 WON 21/3/07 £2616

CAPITAL 1 - WON 19/3/07 £800.22

CAPITAL 1 - WON 19/3/07 £325.75

AQUA - MCOL 2/3/07 £172.79

ABBEY - MCOL 2/3/07 £261.37

HALIFAX VISA - WON default removal 19/3/07

PARAGON - LBA 11/3/07

CABOT -SAR 26/2/07

ROCKWELL -OFFER 20/2/07

GMAC -MCOL 7/2/07 £189.85

WESTCOT - SAR 25/2/07

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paul

how do i do that then? i am so sorry, never done this before. done bank charges which you helped a lot with but never done this. :confused:

 

 

 

Hi W,

 

 

You can make an application on form N244. Or you can simply write a letter to the court requesting an application for a set aside. If you take a visit to your nearest County Court, someone should be able to help you with the correct form.

 

I would personally use the form. I think the cost is £65, however this may be exempt if you are on a very low income or benefits etc!

 

 

Best wishes, Jeff.

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Hi W,

 

 

You can make an application on form N244. Or you can simply write a letter to the court requesting an application for a set aside. If you take a visit to your nearest County Court, someone should be able to help you with the correct form.

 

I would personally use the form. I think the cost is £65, however this may be exempt if you are on a very low income or benefits etc!

 

 

Best wishes, Jeff.

 

hi

thanks, i will write and request the correct form now.

once received i will notify you and i am sure will ask more.

do you think i could get this set a side based on the above? what would happen, would the ccj be removed, would i be refunded everything i had paid if won?


HALIFAX: PRE 6 year claim 1991-2006 WON 21/3/07 £2616

CAPITAL 1 - WON 19/3/07 £800.22

CAPITAL 1 - WON 19/3/07 £325.75

AQUA - MCOL 2/3/07 £172.79

ABBEY - MCOL 2/3/07 £261.37

HALIFAX VISA - WON default removal 19/3/07

PARAGON - LBA 11/3/07

CABOT -SAR 26/2/07

ROCKWELL -OFFER 20/2/07

GMAC -MCOL 7/2/07 £189.85

WESTCOT - SAR 25/2/07

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Hi W,

 

 

You can make an application on form N244. Or you can simply write a letter to the court requesting an application for a set aside. If you take a visit to your nearest County Court, someone should be able to help you with the correct form.

 

I would personally use the form. I think the cost is £65, however this may be exempt if you are on a very low income or benefits etc!

 

 

Best wishes, Jeff.

 

i have searched for form N244 on the www.hmcoourts-service.gov.uk website but there isnt a form of this number


HALIFAX: PRE 6 year claim 1991-2006 WON 21/3/07 £2616

CAPITAL 1 - WON 19/3/07 £800.22

CAPITAL 1 - WON 19/3/07 £325.75

AQUA - MCOL 2/3/07 £172.79

ABBEY - MCOL 2/3/07 £261.37

HALIFAX VISA - WON default removal 19/3/07

PARAGON - LBA 11/3/07

CABOT -SAR 26/2/07

ROCKWELL -OFFER 20/2/07

GMAC -MCOL 7/2/07 £189.85

WESTCOT - SAR 25/2/07

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i have searched for form N244 on the www.hmcoourts-service.gov.uk website but there isnt a form of this number

 

 

Hi,

 

 

It should be. Try here:

 

 

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n244_0400.pdf

 

 

If it doesn't work, just call into your nearest County Court for a form!

 

 

Regards, Jeff.

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