Loan Maker Broker/Advantage/ADV2/Paragon/MARS - Secured 2nd charge debt consolidation Loan May 2007 - still owe more than i borrowed!!

[morgan8080]

Hi, iam new i am not sure if i am posting in the correct thread but i need a bit of help.

I am currently sending off for several SARs the most important being a £35k secured loan which is in arrears.

I think there may be a few things i can have them for such as unfair charges , secret commissions, cca not being correct ( if they have one) Its with ADV2 ( they were called advantage but ceased trading)

Is it right that because its unregulated i dont really have a leg to stand on and cant class it as voidable or unenforceable.

????

I was approached by solicitors to look into this but have decided to go it alone with all of the issues, SARS and PPi i am pursuing.

It would be great if you could advise.

Ive not sent any SARS yet waiting till end of month when i have money to send the £10 cheques.

[The GodMother]

DONT SEND CHEQUES

 

Also as the loan was for over £25k then they are not covered under the cca laws.

[morgan8080]

why do i not send a cheque?

 

any advise on what i should do

[The GodMother]

yes send a postal order

[morgan8080]

Hi does anyone know if its a lot more difficult to prove and have a secured UNREGULATED loan proved unenforceable????

I dont know if i should go ahead if i have no chance.

I do believe there are discrepancies with it all but was told that as its unregulated ( over 25k) i dont have a leg to stand on??

Please help

[andrew1]

Just because it's over £25k doesn't necessarily make it Unregulated.

There's a thread on s.18 of the CCA.

Take a stroll down this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/171037-multiple-agreements-falling-within.html

It also depends when the loan was taken out.

Tell us more and we may be able to help..

[morgan8080]

The loan was for 35k, its now more due to charges.

There is no broker fee stated on the limted paperwork i have

only says 495 completion fee to the company not the broker.

Ive had unlawful charges on it.

3 x £50 charge in one month for being in arrears, and calls ive never received.

I know its classed as a mortgage / secured loan but there must be some way of making sure they have done everything above board and act n it if they havent.

On recent paperwork they refer to it as a mortgage

but when i asked them to change it to interest only while i pay off the arrears then they said that its not a mortgage.

I dont know where i stand? and my rights.

ment to add it was taken may 2007

[checkthatcredit]

if it is described as a mortgage on the agreement then there are grounds to examine the contract for fair or unfair clauses

- however I believe this is a lot more inticate process than anything CCA regulated.

 

Unless there are other experts on the forum I would maybe suggest a debt checking company as you would need a solicitor to audit the mortgage properly as you would not want to jeopardise your home for the sake of £3-400.

 

ment to add it was taken may 2007

 

The Consumer Credit Act was amended so that agreements dated after April 6th 2007 were automatically compliant.

 

However "mortgages" might be a different matter

- but do you want to gamble on anything secured on your home

- perhaps you should let a specialist company look at your mortgage for you

[morgan8080]

Ive recently been told this debt - second charge has been passed on to Paragon.

 

Its been bought 3 times now,

is it worth sending for the SAR even though i have arrears on this?

Also we went through a broker and there's no commission stated on any paper work i have ( its not all complete )

 

I really dont know whether its worth going for or am i risking angering them and risking my house?

I need a good loan checking company but dont know where to go, any ideas???

[photoman]

Morgan,

How much was the loan for (before interest) ?

Do you know how much the commission was roughly ?

Was there PPI or insurance included as part of the loan ?

Was the loan a consolidation loan (ie: amalgamating previous debts or loans into one).

If your answer is yes to any of the above, then it may have been improperly executed (and so unenforceable).

and/or the actual loan amount may have been less than £25k, and so making it subject to the CCA74 (ie: regulated).

Do you have a copy of the agreement ?

Can you post up a copy ( use photobucket, and remove any personal details). Or can you post up as much infor as poss?.

No harm asking for the agreement, that is your right.

Not sure where you stand regards withholding payments whilst waiting for it?

Think you are entitled to do so, until they can prove the debt, and then come to an agreement to catch up afterwards should they actually produce one.

Others may advise also.

Best regards

PM

[morgan8080]

Hi

The loan was for debt consolidation, it was £35k

I havent got all the paperwork, i need to SAR them for it. It has no ppi on it as i turned that down.

I have had lots of charges added to it, some for calls, letters etc.

It was taken through loan makers and says on my paperwork they got no fee only the £495 lenders admin fee, it says £0 for introducers fee.

Cash amount is 35k, it says 300 monthly payments of £478 starting 1 month after date we advance the loan,

your first monthly payment will increase to cover the additional interest accrued.

The lenders admin fee is added to the credit i have borrowed.

Thats all the info it says on the document i have.

It was taken out 4/6/2007.

Any advice will be welcome as i didnt want to risk my house as i am working so hard to pay off all my debts and not going under.

It doesnt say on the document i signed how much of the loan will be interest it says loan amount 35k,

it hasnt got the £495 admin fee in there, should be in the total shouldn't it?? and it just says 17.4% interest, is that right??

[N.P]

Can you scan this Agreement up?

[morgan8080]

I will have a look how to do it,

wont be able to scan it till tomorrow , i hope you can take a look then.

If its all above board i dont mind paying it, but ive always felt theres something not right.

Thanks so much for taking time to have a look though.

[N.P]

No worries, just edit out your name, address, account number etc.

If this was a consolidation Loan it will be interesting to see it.

[morgan8080]

thanks for looking

 

 

2007-06-14 Advantage Signed Agreement.pdf

[photoman]

Hi Morgan,

I've taken a quick look at your agreement.

As It's over the £25k sum it is not covered by CCA74.

HOWEVER:

1/ Was the loan for repaying several other debts/ loans ?

2/ If so, how was the loan paid? Was it paid to you in one lump sum into an account or by cheque etc.... or were several other loans/ overdrafts/ credit cards/ etc repaid using the funds? And if so, how were they paid.

If it was the case that several other debts were paid off using the loan, and they were paid directly by the lender to the other lenders, you may have a case for claiming that the loan was deliberately constructed in such a way as to avoid regulation under CCA, and I do believe this would be wrong and unlawful.

3/ The commission.

You say there was commission involved. It does not appear on agreement?

Were you informed formally of this before the loan ?

You may have a case for claiming if proper formalities were not abided by.

You should do a search of the forums (use he search button at top) for secret commissions.

Best regards

PM

PS: Anyone else wish to comment ?

 

[morgan8080]

Hi, it was paid to other companies such as mortgage arrears, some on a loan and some to me of which i wasted and spent rather than [pay things off ( stupidly )

I dont know yet if there was any commission but i paid nothing to loan makers and they had to have had something for doing it i should think??

So, what would you suggest now?

[photoman]

Morgan,

I am no expert here, however your case is interesting as I have seen other similar cases on CAG, and so I will try to speak to them, to get some advice, and also ask them to look at your case.

I suggest you start your own thread on this, and post a link to it in here.

Regards

PM

[morgan8080]

ow do I post a link here?

thanks so much for the advice I'll wait to hear from people.

this loan was the worst thing I ever did

I only wanted a short term option not realising that it would push me further down and be unable to remortgage,

wish I had done my research not just gone to a broker and gone along with a secured loan

I didn't know any of the penalties.

I have an unregulated secured loan for £35k it was taken out june 2007.

It was used as a consolidation loan.

Ill post a link to where i have just posted this as i have a copy of the signed agreement i kept on there.

I have not sent off for a SAR yet but would be interested to see what the broker got as i never paid a fee and it says £0 also on my signed agreement.

I dont know if i have a case to challenge it or even how i would do that, i dont want to risk my home in anyway as i am fighting each month to pay everything.

The loan was with advantage ( a sub prime lender) then it changed to ADV2 now they have been bought and my loans with Paragon

does anyone have any ideas if its enforceable

The £25k limit was removed from the act under CCA 2006. Not sure when this actually came into force? Was this a securred loan?

AGREEMENTS REGULATED UNDER THE 1974 ACT

Section 1: Definition of "individual"

• 15. Section 1 amends section 189(1) of the 1974 Act to provide a new definition of "individual". This restricts the partnerships that are to be regarded as "individuals" to those consisting of two or three partners, not all of whom are bodies corporate. This means that in future borrowing or hire by partnerships of more than three members will not be covered by the 1974 Act, i.e. these partnerships will be treated in the same way as bodies corporate.

Section 2: Removal of financial limits etc.

16. Section 2 removes the financial limit for the regulation of consumer credit and consumer hire agreements under the 1974 Act. The 1974 Act currently applies only to agreements where credit provided or the hire payments to be made do not exceed £25,000.

In future, all consumer credit and consumer hire agreements will be regulated by the 1974 Act unless specifically exempted, regardless of the amount of the credit or the amount of the hire payments. Section 2(3) extends the application of the provisions regulating credit advertisements to advertisements offering credit regardless of the sum involved, and regardless of whether the creditor requires security.

[N.P]

Morgan,

You could also claim that they actually owe YOU!

This agreement states £35,000 Cash Loan. As they used it to pay off other debts without you seeing a penny of it, then they owe you the FULL amount.

Simply, the agreement states Cash Loan, therefore you should have received £35,000. Not the small change from their personal spending spree.

Argue they cleared all other debts for you, as this was not agreed on the Agreement, and they owe you £35,000.

This is also a typical con to dodge regulation of the Act.

How much was each debt that was paid off?

[morgan8080]

Yes it was a secured loan, didnt really know what that was when i took it out just thought it was a short term option ( how stupid i was )

Thanks for everyone commenting i really appreciate any help with this, £35,000 ( well nearer £40,000 now as charges added and arrears) is a hell of a lot of money

[N.P]

I`ve just noticed on Morgans CCA, that in the small print it states you agreed to allow them to use part of the Loan to pay off other debts.

Do you know how much each debt was? This should have been a Multiple agreement.

Morgan, you have left your Account Number on the Agreement, top right corner.

Edit it out and resave!

[morgan8080]

I think there was 2 loans 10,000 each, only paid part of one off, overdrafts and mortgage arrears, i really cant remember, it desnt say anywhere, i guess i could find out exactly, i know i didnt use the cash that was left wisely. If i SAR them i could see where each bit went.

I know that they only paid a few bits and i had a bit left of it to blow.

I think HSBC wouldnt let them pay the loan directly ( was 10k i think) so they gave it to me to pay them which i paid most , not all.

I dont think ill be entitled to anything as they only paid a few bits off, but figures wise am not sure.

[N.P]

Errrrrm,

Do you realise the repayment on this Loan is £143,400?

No wonder they added it all together to avoid regulation.

This is WAR!

[morgan8080]

£143,400 ?? Oh god thats extortionate???? What a fool i was?? I am never going to get out of this.

I got the secured loan , idea was to clear debts then remortgage after a couple of months,

i did it in haste and things are far worse now financially

i am pretty clued up and have CCA several companies and claimed lots of charges back but THIS i have no idea with or where to go,

its going to make me lose my house if i fight it i fear but ive been totally suckered in with it.