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    • Lowell has written to me concerning this debt on the 23rd of Jan 2020. letter states: We have noted the contents of your letter and we understand that you have no knowledge of this account. We are able to offer the following information regarding the account. • Agreement start date: 19/06/2014 • Application address: Flat 4, 3 Kempsford Gardens • Tariff Description: Phone BB Hardware • Disconnect Reason: Cessation by BT • Original Creditor: BT Retail Consumer • Mobile Number:02078351401 ( this is a landline ) • Client last payment date: 16/12/2014 • Client last payment value: 86.16 this is not £499.00 • Default date: 27/08/2015, this doesn't square with last pay date. • Airtime Debt Value:257.94 • Early Terminate Fee:241.99, can they charge this? • Billing Date:27/03/15 LOW105_230120 497503_ MACHINE \ 116\247 \ lof2 \ Airtime Debt is for the services used and the Early Termination Fee is calculated to reflect the remaining months of your contract which remain unpaid from the date of your account closure. We have requested from BT PLC a copy of the statements for the account to help clarify this matter for you. We will write to you further once we have received this documentation and in the meantime your account is on hold.   I obtain the SAR. it is attached: this is all they hold. 1. Can you explain the implications of the response  and the SAR as far as Lowell being able to collect the debt?   2. I responded to Lowell with this letter: Lowell Financial Ltd. 4875 Dear Sir: I write to you in response to your letter of 23 January 2020. Insofar that a relationship may have existed between myself and BT I cannot recall this account (Agreement) and request that you supply me with a copy of the Account/Agreement and other documents listed in the bullet points of your response. I  deny any breach  of the purported agreement. You have failed to supply me with a copy of the agreement requested . I have never received any evidence that you are the legal owner of the debt, by assignment, sale and purchase agreement or otherwise. I have never received and am unaware of any legal notice of assignment or Notice of Assignment pursuant to Law and property Act 1925 Section 136(1). This document is not referenced in your response. I deny that I have failed  to maintain the required payments to BT. It is denied that I have failed to respond to demands for payment sent by you and/or its agents. Lowell is put to strict proof that any such demands have been sent to me by you. a). Lowell appears to  admit it is the assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Lowell has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925.  b). It is further denied any funds are due Lowell  because the Lowell appears to have sold this debt to another firm in 2019.  Lowell must therefore show how it has legal right, either under statue or equity to collect this sum from me. I  deny owing any money to Lowell  and you are required to produce evidence to support your claims that this sum is in default, due and owning this includes: a. Show how the I  entered into an Agreement. b. Show how I  have reached the amount claimed for. c. Show that I  failed to maintain the required payments and the service was terminated as claimed. d. Show that the statute of limitations on this alleged debt has not passed. 7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4) it is expected that Lowell must  prove the allegations that the money is owed; having been provided with written requests for information under CPR 31.14 and to date have failed to provide any such documentation as detailed in its response letter.  8. Notwithstanding the above should the alleged amount claimed include an early termination charge(s) amounting to the entire balance of the remaining contract. OFCOM guidance states that any Early Termination Charge that is made up of the entire balance if the remaining contract is unlikely to be fair as it fails to consider the fact that the provider no longer has to provide and pay for their service.  You state that the balance due includes £241.99. You must remove this from any collection efforts, and I dispute that this and all other balances are owed by me. 9. Show that I was residing at Flat 4 3 Kempsford Gardens on the alleged defaulted date of 27/08/2015 or any other date after 16/12/2014.  Alternatively remove any debt you allege is owed  because back billing and billing for unused services is not allowed. 10. Please explain Lowell reporting to the credit bureaus that the debt outstanding to BT is £674. The account number concerning 3 Kempsford Gardens Flat 4 which I hold is another account number which is BT xx7 start date is 15/07.2013. 11. The account number you claim is owed to you is an original account number BT xxx 07. You claim the start date on this account is 19/06/2014. Please explain the discrepancy between these two accounts including ownership of both accounts, and why there are two accounts you allege for the same address with different dates. Alternatively, if you have no explanation: You must cease and desist from collection activity including reporting to the credit bureaus, pre claim letters and any other forms of collection activity with immediate effect. Please write to me confirming that you will take no further action. Failing this I will file a counterclaim and ask the court for costs. Kind Regards      I received the email below last night: "I can see that we also hold the following account details for you:   Account Number Original Client Original Client Reference Current Balance XXX192 Orange xxx321 £285.91 XXX875 BT PLC xxx207 £499.93   I can see that the above BT PLC account is currently on hold, as we are requesting information from BT PLC directly.   1. how long does BT have to respond? the date of Lowell letter was 23rd of Jan. 2. if BT doesn't respond within that time frame, what can I do to get the account removed from the Credit reports? . 3. how can I get Lowell to stop collection if BT doesn't respond? what is also interesting is I have a letter from Lowell for the orange account and also a BT account, but the balance is £199.11 and the account number ends in 192. There are too many account numbers with different balances for the same address. any suggestions how I address this with Lowell?   Lowell writes:   "The period for recovering your Orange account by court action has expired. We will not be issuing court proceedings to enforce payment. However, your debt still exists and legally we are within our rights to continue to ask you for repayment. With this being said, this account does not look to have a payment arrangement set up as of yet. How would you like to proceed with this account going forward? If you can let us know then we can look to assist you further".   If the time has expired to collect a debt from orange, how do they have a right to collect? seems the SOL runs for both. how should I respond?   In the meantime, I have placed your Vodafone and Orange accounts on hold for the next 30 days to give you time to get back to us.   Can you give me some suggestions on how I unravel this and respond? Thank you.  SAR_BT.pdf
    • Hello and welcome to CAG.   Could you tell us what your contract says about overtime please? It will help us to advise you.   HB
    • Hi there,   I've been on a on call rota for some years now which as been a 1 in 3 weeks and been paid a weekly allowance for this service and overtime paid extra should I be called out. My employer now wants to change this to a 1 in 4 weeks which now leaves me out of pocket just for the on call payments a year.   Do I have an argument that i am effectively been force to take a pay cut and that i should be compensaited accordingly ?   thanks in advance for any advise.   Fred.      
    • hi again     the original supplier was AO but was out of warranty with them so hotpoint took it up.    the oven was replaced around January time, with us notifying them we was not happy fairly shortly after delivery.  hotpoint said the exact same model, which was delivered HUD61PS - but is only the same on model number. (Which I think is naughty as they changed a major function)       
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gigglemal

ADBC/Moriarty Law Claim Form - UAE debt

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Hi all

 

Firstly, thanks for all the helpful threads on here. Whilst there's a lot to read and get through, it's both helpful and reassuring to see so much great advice and support to others in similar situations.

 

I've received a letter and a Claim Form from Moriarty for an ADCB CC debt. I'm presently in a DMP for existing UK debts and (probably like many others) I truly don't know the best way forward, as time is clearly of the essence - but I don't feel I've 'up to speed' yet on all the other threads, advice, lingo etc. to respond accordingly.

 

I'm looking at drafting the PAP and getting it of tomorrow, but just want to get into the other threads to see if it's the right thing (and get more info on similar cases).

 

Please feel free to comment with any advice - all gratefully received of course. Thanks again for anyone that's posted in other threads and great to see so many kind and generous respondents helping others.

 

PS. Haven't posted/scanned details onto the thread yet as still to read up on the rules/tips, but Claim Form filed in Northampton on 20 Nov.

Edited by gigglemal

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please complete the above:

 

dx

 

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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 Name of the Claimant ?
Abu Dhabi Commercial Bank

 

Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to.
20 Nov 2019

 

 Date of issue XX + 19 days ( 5 day for service + 14 days to acknowledge) = XX + 14 days to submit defence = XX (33 days in total) -
AOS  XX + 19 = 08 Dec
file defence date  -
08 Dec + 14 days = 20 Dec 19

 

 

 Particulars of Claim

1.The defendant owes £25k (debt under a credit card agreement with ADCB dated xx/08/2014)

 

2.despite formal demand for payment of the debt the defendant has failed to pay

 

3.and the claimant claims £25k

and also claims interest thereon pursuant to section 69 of the country court act 1984 limited to one year to the date hereof at the rate of 8% per annum amounting to £2000.

 

What is the total value of the claim?
£27900
 
Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC ( Pre Action Protocol) ?
Yes
 
Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred?
Yes - left Dubai

 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address?
No

 

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account?
Credit Card
 
When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ?
After - Aug 2014
 
Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ?
Representative of bank visited at my place of work with all documentation.

 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/ Equifax /Etc...) ?
Not sure - Can’t see it on Clearscore (Equifax), only have basic Experian app (not Credit Expert).
 
Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim.
Note sure; don’t think so. Moriarty claim to have “been instructed on behalf of ADCB”
 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?
No; only had a letter, then a Final Demand, then the Claim Form and another letter )all from Moriarty)
 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor?
No
 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ?
No
 

Why did you cease payments?
I was made redundant so had to leave UAE to return to UK.

 

Despite me advising  ADCB’s ‘agents’ (DCAs etc) I had no savings, couldn’t find any work nor borrow money to make repayments and was presently in a DMP, I was requested to make a payment as a “good faith” gesture and then they would agree that the sum would not accrue any further interest and subsequently enter into an “affordable agreement”.

 

Despite my intention to offer any possible solution that I could manage - e.g. merging into my DMP - ADCB were not interested and it reached an impasse.

 

The payment I did make incurred high charges (SWIFT payment)

I requested if I could pay by card or a method that would not incur high charges.

I also offered to agree to % of any future income earned as well as a regular affordable sum.

 

I was advised this would be possible, but all promises made to me proved to be false and so despite me communicating my situation to ADCB all I was offered was to enter into an agreement that I could not afford or ‘final settlement’ that I also could not afford.

 

In addition to this, I’ve had all sorts of obfuscation, misrepresentation and false promises - esp. relative to Central Bank Listing, police case and suchlike -  that I was only promised would be “cleared up” should I make payment.

 

So the situation reached impasse - I wasn’t getting any sense or manageable proposals and I certainly couldn’t afford to keep paying the amounts suggested (especially incurring £20+ charges each time).

 

What was the date of your last payment?Jul 16
 
Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved?
ADCB didn’t seem interested in the litany of  questionable methods employed by their representatives - e.g. misrepresentations, fraud, deceit - and my suggestions of possible solutions (DMP or % of future income) were ignored, rather they just kept wanting money I didn’t have to ‘hold off’.
 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan?
Yes - see above; I advised them I had lost my job, could not find employment, had no savings but would be agreeable to adding to my DMP OR perhaps agreeing to a payment plan on a % basis of any future income.
 

QUESTIONS
Do I need to get a full Credit Report from Experian or Equifax (other than the apps)?

 

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see***

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
[if mcol is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time]
.
 register as an individual
 note the long gateway number given
 then log in
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
leave jurisdiction unticked -  *** for the minute hang fire on doing AOS on MCOL until andyorch advises if/if not you question jurisdiction please 
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
 click thru to the end
 confirm and exit MCOL.
..

 get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]
.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/

 

CHANGE the list of documents too:

Original signed finance agreement together with the terms and conditions IN ENGLISH
Any notice of change in account terms and conditions that were ever issued since credit approval
Any notice of default or UAE equivalent that was issued by the original creditor
All and every statement of the account including how any interest has been calculated.

Proof that UAE Court Judgement has already been gained upon said debt.
Proof the UK Pre Action Protocol allows a UK Solicitor to issue a Letter Of Claim and

/or issue court proceedings concerning a UAE debt. The UAE is not a 'member state' .

.
.
type your name ONLY***

no need to sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]
 

 

 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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Thread moved to Financial Legal Issues Forum in view of the court claim.

 

Andy


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did moriarty send a letter of claim at least a month before you got the northants bulk claimform pack?


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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Yes - I received a letter - which included the copy "we are writing to you by way of Letter of Claim pursuant to the provisions of The Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (PAP)" - a few months before.

 

So should I wait to Acknowlege due to 'juridisction' confirmation?

 

Thanks again for any help or advice

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With regards to contesting jurisdiction ...check your Terms and conditions of the agreement see if contains the condition none exclusive jurisdiction

 

Andy


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Hi Andy, thanks for the reply. I guess I will need to get copies of the agreement to check that, which may take some time.

 

What do you suggest I should I do in the interim, as I'm conscious the clock is ticking on needing to AOS?

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Or have a look here at similar threads/same agreements if the OP has uploaded their T&Cs


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i cant find any ACDB T&C's here yet

 

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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Current Accounts.

 

https://www.adcb.com/Images/Offshore_TC_tcm9-22214.pdf

 

Governing law All matters pertaining to an Account and these Terms and Conditions shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the Island of Jersey and the Account Holder irrevocably submits to the exclusive jurisdiction of the Island of Jersey. Any dispute or difference between the Bank and/or the Abu Dhabi Commercial Bank Group and the Account Holder arising in connection with an Account, any funds therein or these Terms and Conditions will be submitted to the exclusive jurisdiction of the Island of Jersey

 

Credit Cards

 

https://www.adcb.com/en/personal/cards/default.aspx

 

T&C,s

 

https://www.adcb.com/en/terms-conditions/default.aspx

 

Eg for one type of card.

 

29. Governing Law and Jurisdiction 29.1 Which laws govern the relationship between you and ADCB? These Terms and Conditions and any non-contractual obligations arising out of or in connection with them are governed by the federal laws of the UAE and by the laws of the Applicable Emirate.

 

If there is a dispute between you and ADCB, you irrevocably agree that the courts of the Applicable Emirate will have (save for the exceptions granted in ADCB’s favour below) exclusive jurisdiction over all matters arising out of or in connection with these Terms and Conditions or their subject matter or formation including any question regarding their existence, validity or termination. For the avoidance of doubt and solely for the benefit of ADCB in its sole discretion, you also irrevocably agree to submit to the jurisdiction of the DIFC Courts (including without limitation the SCT) and the ADGM Courts (and any ADGM SCT operating from time to time). If ADCB decides to commence a claim against you in the: (A) SCT, you and ADCB both expressly agree that such claim may be made for any amount up to and including AED 1,000,000, or for such greater amount as may be within the jurisdiction of the SCT from time to time; or (B) ADGM SCT, you and ADCB both expressly agree that such claim may be made for any amount as may be within the jurisdiction of the ADGM SCT from time to time. The two paragraphs above are for the benefit of ADCB only. ADCB will not be prevented from bringing proceedings relating to a dispute with you in any jurisdiction outside the UAE (and for the avoidance of doubt, this will include any jurisdiction in which you may be (or have been) registered, incorporated, resident, domiciled or hold assets). To the extent permitted by Applicable Laws, ADCB may bring, issue, commence or pursue concurrent proceedings in any number of jurisdictions without limitation.

 


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Wow, thanks for all of this. Sorry if I sound a tad slow on this, but I take it then I can't contest jurisdiction according to those terms?

 

Will crack on with 'needful' as advised, and thanks

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no sadly you can't or more correctly shouldn't.

 

 

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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Thanks for confirmation - have filed on MCOL and sent CPR to Moriarty, will advise on any updates.

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well don't do as someone else has stupidly done this week and thats file a defence saying defence to follow

don't miss defence filing date no matter what happens

 

post it up here 1st so we can muse over it.

 

me and the dog spent a good amount of time with a spy whilst rescuing lots of cliff bound sheep on a rather large Scottish estate owned by a rather prominent person during the last few days/weeks.

 

the spy knows the laird has been repeatedly grumbling in recent times upon how much court time these UAE cases were again wasting.

...that the new bunch are far worse at this than the old lot, atleast they bothered to turn up but wasted many hours of court time arguing UAE T&C everytime..he's glad they are now gone..!!

 

this is confirming what we already know about moriarty and speculative claims and their MO, but have yet to actually witness ourselves.


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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Thanks, just looking through other threads & options about how best to file a defence (and the right one).

 

I've not received any replies/further docs as per CPR sent last week. It seems this may have crossed in the post as I received another letter/follow-up dated 11 Dec.

 

Interesting info ref the spy/laird and comments on new/old bunch, gives some useful context.

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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Thanks for posting that, I have received a Letter of Claim & I have removed/edited the line about a previous repayment agreement, so would this defence seem along the right lines?

 

Particulars of Claim for reference only

 

The defendant owes £25k (debt under a credit card agreement with ADCB dated xx/08/2014 despite formal demand for payment of the debt the defendant has failed to pay and the claimant claims £25k and also claims interest thereon pursuant to section 69 of the country court act 1984 limited to one year to the date hereof at the rate of 8% per annum amounting to £2000.

 

 

Defence

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim vague and are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

1. The Claimant claims £ xxxxxx is owed under credit agreement with Abu Dhabi Commercial Bank. I do not recall the details of the credit agreement to which the claimant fails to state the actual agreement account number in its pleadings, I have therefore sought verification from the claimants solicitor by way of a CPR 31.14 and who are yet to fully comply.

 

2.  I am unable to recall the precise details of the alleged agreement or any Notice of Default served under UAE Law in breach of any payments.

 

3. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of balance/breach requested by CPR 31. 14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and
(b) show and evidence any cause of action and service of a Default Notice or termination notice under UAE Legislation; and
(c) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for.

 

4. After receiving this claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request  for copies of any documents referred to within the Claimants' particulars to establish what the claim is for. To date they have failed to comply to my CPR 31.14 request and remain in default with regards to this request.

 

5. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

6. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

--

 

 

 

 

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post yours here 

then we can check..

 

you have till 4pm tomorrow

 


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Hi dx100uk, sorry I was editing the previous post to include a draft defence for initial review.

 

 

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looks ok

let andyorch 100% check mind.

 

dx

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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Defence amended...please check.......

 

There is definitely no account reference number  on the claim form ?

 

Andy


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Andy, there is a Claim No, but there is no 'account number' on Particulars of Claim. I wasn't sure if there should be a reference of the account/CC number (or similar) to which the claimed account relates.

 

Is the Claim number sufficient? Should I remove the line from the defence draft above?

 

Sorry if I'm being a bit dim, but please could you explain the comment 'Defence amended - please check"? Thanks again for your help and advice,

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Not interested in the claim number thats irrelevant.....but anyone suing someone for a credit agreement......its a necessity to quote the agreement number...otherwise the claim becomes none CPR complient

 

Defence amended please check = I have amended your defence in post #19 and ask that you please check it yourself and are happy to submit it.


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