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jamieleigh

Phoenix bailiffs - Seized Car for 5 PCNs change of reg'd Keeper During process

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Hi I am after some advice,

Can the council put a owner of controlled goods claim on hold, while waiting for the response to a statutory declaration made by the debtor.

 

2 seprate claims made by 2 different people the owner of the vehicle and the debtor.

 

Thanks

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Hi and welcome to CAG 

 

I think you need to expand a little on your post so we can get you moved to the appropriate forum.

 

Regards

 

Andy


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You appear to be asking regarding bailiff action i will guess?

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@dx100uk yes your correct, my vehicle has been seized by pheonix enforcement.

 

This was emailed to medway council around 2 months prior to the enforcement action.

 

Miss ****
 
I recently appealed a parking fine i received an email in response stating because I was not the registerd owner of the vehicle they was unable to process my appeal and that a letter had been sent to the registered keeper.
 
The registerd keeper of the vehicle:
**** ***   Peugeot.
Is my ex partners, my children's father, I am a named driver for this car, and have insurance documents to prove this.
 
Also I can get a letter of confirmation from registerd keeper to say I'm named driver and all responsibility of any parking tickets and fines are mine, 
Miss  ******
 
Iam unable to receive any letters about parking fines if they have been sent to the registered keeper address which is:
Mr ****
 
And Mr ***** himself works away from home so therefore would also not receive the letters.
An email address for him is **********
Which would be the best way to contact him and for him to reply also.
 
I have a number of parking fines that I was not aware of and need to appeal to a majority of them but if my appeals are not being accepted how can I resolve these?
Which also means the fines are going to rise.
Please inform me of what I can do about this, as iam fully responsible for all parking permits that I currently have for the vehicle: **** ***.

 

 During this time I brought the vehicle from my father children, and the log book was changed to my name ect. Please note during this time I was unaware of any enforcement action being in place.

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Vehicle Reg: GK60****
Enforcement Reference number: …..
Enforcement Officer: B......
Penalty Charge Notice Numbers: 5 pcn no's ( Please see Full list of PCN in the below supporting documents)
 
NOTICE OF CLAIM OF CONTROLLED GOODS"
SECOND REQUEST FOR RETURN OF MY VEHICLE 
 
To Whom this may concern,
 
I am writing in regards to my vehicle that was seized from Carlton Road Gillingham on 20th November 2019.
I make this claim on the following grounds:
  •  I Miss Leanne ******purchased this vehicle on the 15/11 /2019 from the previous owner Sean ***.
  • I have " new keeper slip" also proof of purchase dated the 15/11/2019
  • The Enforcement officer was given proof the vehicle does not belong to the DEBTOR!
  1. The enforcement officer was given all supporting documents regarding the sale and proof of ownership prior to the vehicle being towed away, He confirmed the "new Keeper slip" did not look real, and the receipt of purchase would not have been accepted by a judge.( No law applicable to the requirements when writing a receipt for a private vehicle sale) on this basis the Enforcement officer had no authority to make comments regarding a third party view on the matter)
 
Witness statement from Leanne …….. to the TEC dated 21/11/2019
  • Witness statement from Leanne Phillips to the traffic Enforcement centres confirming i am now the registered keeper of the vehicle, i can confirm as the driver of the vehicle when the PCN were issued i am liable for payments in the below supporting documents it confirms i had correspondence with Medway council regarding the outstanding charges. 
  • I contacted the owner of the vehicle and asked him to email me confirming he gives authority for me to deal with the PCN regarding this vehicle as the Driver at the time. Medway council refused this email. 
  • I was then told to make arrangements for the vehicle to be in my name, i would have full authority to deal with the PCN.
  1. Due to not being the owner or registered keeper they are unable to deal with me regarding the PCN it will need to be the owner of the vehicle. i confirmed the owner has no obligation nor any mutual relationship with my self only to my Children. i confirmed The owner works away and only has a "C/O address". 
  2. Log book was sent of on the 15th Nov 2019, 
  Witness statement from Sean ******to the TEC dated 21/11/2019  ( Previous owner) 
  • I have today submitted a Witness statement confirming the following information:
  • NO Notice to owner was ever received by my self, i work away and have a "COA" only.
  • Miss Leanne *******s now the Owner of the vehicle, and was the driver at the time the PCN were issued and should be liable for all outstanding charges! 
  • I can confirm i have no connection regarding this vehicle going forward
  1. I can confirm i was the owner of the vehicle when the said contravention occurred however i was not driving the vehicle : The driver of the vehicle was " MISS LEANNE *****
Supporting Documents 
1. NEW KEEPER SLIP 
2. PROOF OF PURCHASE
3. EMAIL FROM PREVIOUS OWNER GIVING ME (LEANNE ******)  FULL AUTHORITY 
4. EMAIL FROM MEDWAY COUNCIL CONFIRMING I AM NOT THE OWNER OF THE VEHICLE SO THEY CAN NOT CORRESPOND ANY FURTHER REGARDING THE PCN
5. EMAIL FROM LEANNE PHILLIPS TO MEDWAY COUNCIL CONFIRMING ALL THE ABOVE DETAILS AND ASKING FOR ADIVCE AND GUIDANCE RELATING TO THE MATTER
6. OTHER SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS 
 
Please Note: i have made a formal request to have my vehicle returned to me today, as i have two young children and the enforcement officer has no legal right to hold my vehicle for the weekend.
 
DATE PROTECTION INFORMATION - I would also like all documents regarding communication with medway council and Enforcement Officer. i am duly concerned on how The Enforcement officer was able to locate the vehicle at my home address in Gillingham, when the previous owner and vehicle was registered at Walderslade. 
 
Lasted update (Information)
Nick.....: Medway council confirmed he will call me on Monday morning regarding the vehicle as he was going to take a full look in to the details and what has gone wrong in the process of removing my vehicle.
 
I MAKE THIS REQUEST AS THE OWNER OF THE VEHICLE AND NOT THE DEBTOR THE ENFORCEMENT ACTION IS AGAINST. 
AT PRESENT I HAVE NO RELATIONSHIP WITH MEDWAY COUNCIL NOR THE PCN IN RESPECT OF THE SEIZED GOODS.  THEREFORE I AM MAKING A REQUEST THAT MY VEHICLE BE  RETURNED
 
kind Regards 
 
I

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I hope the above information helps to understand my situation.

 

Previous owner submitted late statutory declaration confirming he is no longer owner of vehicle also was not the drive at the time the pcn were issued. 

 

I have a made claimed ownership of the goods as the vehicle belongs to me and was seized from me for a debt in someone else name.

 

Yes I can confirm the I am liable for the pcn but have been in communication with the parking team at medway council who advised I need to be the owner of the vehicle to legal be able to appeal ect. 

As far as I am aware until the pcn are reissued in the liable parts name they can not be held responsible. There for to seize my vehicle would have been wrong.

 

Medway council have confirmed they will not acknowledge my owner of goods claim until the deculatuon made by the previous owner to the traffic enforcement centre have been dealt with.

 

I would like to know if medway council can do this 

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Hi.

 

I've removed most of your personal information from an earlier post, to keep this anonymous for you.

 

HB

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Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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as far as i'm aware you can't just change ownership/reg'd keeper details of a vehicle to avoid the enforcement action 

 

the only way I believe you will resolve this is to pay whatever is necessary to get the vehicle back and argue the matter later.

hoping for a return of some of the funds , if applicable later.


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I am interested to learn what happened to each windscreen pcn?

why they weren't dealt with at the time of issue?

 

you indicate a parking permit might be involved here ?,

was that valid at the time of each windscreen PCN?

and in who's name was it issued in?


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Hi, 

Sorry if I  didnt explain correctly, 

So change of ownership was done before enforcement action was in force.

 

Medway council sent correspondence confirming I could not appeal the pcn (windscreen ticket) because I was not the registered keeper of the vehicle

 

This is why ownership was changed 

I will upload correspondence now

 

 

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Hi.

 

You've left your name, address and other details in that letter so I've removed it. Please redact it carefully, you don't want this information online.

 

HB

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Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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under what grounds are you appealing?

 


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Ticket was paid for on ringo app 3 mins after ticket was issued.

I live in flats so I park get to my flat then login and pay.

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the ...there are 5 pcn's??

what about the others?
 


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Yes it is the same for all of them. 

 

At the time i was unable to get a residence parking permit because the vehicle was not in my name.

The owner refused to put it in my name (Children's Father) .

 

I believe i have right to appeal, as all of them where paid for and i have proof of this. 

 

This is what resulting in me confirming to my x partner that if the vehicle is not put in my name i can not deal with the PCNS, However during this time Enforcement action was already in place. 

 

Where would i stand with regards to.

All PCNS are in my x partners name - However i am the person liable for them.

 

At the time the PCNS were issued vehicle was in his name but as at the 15th November the vehicle ownership was transferred to me.

 

Vehicle was Seized on the 21st.

 

X partner has made a Statutory Declaration for each PCN,  confirming the above.

 

I was the sole owner of the vehicle & The vehicle was in use by myself and my 2 children at the time it was seized.

 

Can a Statutory Declaration application made by my x partner allow the council to put my Claim for ownership of the goods on hold.

 

They have not Declined it nor have they Accepted it.within 7 days of notifying them i am making the claim they could respond confirming if they Agree or Decline but they haven't done anything.

 

Should i still submit the forms to the court?

 

Enforcement Debt Warrant was in my x partners name 

 

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has this nick contacted you back yet?

 

I think you have a very good case here on all 5 pcn's.

if you paid for the parking each time within say 10 mins [as you can argue you have to take xx no' of children up to your residence and that takes xx time] the pcn's should all be cancelled and all bailiff fees should be wiped and the car returned.

 

the fact that you are/weren't the owner at the time is of little importance.

 

 

 


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Being the owner/ or not the owner at the time is very important regarding the enforcement action.

To date the pcns are not in my name but the vehicle that was seized as a result of the pcns, was in my name.

It is unlawfull to seize goods that doesn't belong to the debtor.

 

 

 

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it is also unlawful to change the ownership of a vehicle [or goods] to avoid enforcement action upon them.

and this was done after you had already replied to the council regarding the outstanding ticket(s).

 

be careful upon pursuing a resolution arguing this point.

 

you could have quite easily changed ownership to gain a parking permit some months previously even before getting the first windscreen ticket.  

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Ownership was changed because of the response I received from medway council.

Confirming for them to deal with me I needed to be the registered owner of the vehicle.

Change of ownership was not done to avoid any enforcement action.

 

The owner at the time the tickets were issued could have sent the notice to owner back to medway council transfering liability to me as I was the driver at the time.

However he works away and has a "care of address".

 

I understand people will assume this was done to avoid enforcement action , but this is not the case. 

 

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we know it wasn't done to avoid enforcement

we understand completely.

but that doesn't take from away the fact that it happened

 

you can't appeal the pcn's on the basis that 'it was not his vehicle to levy upon'.

the law clearly states otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 


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At the time that the vehicle was seized,  a warrant would have already been issued against your ex partner. Most significantly, the warrant 'binds' the goods (in this case, the car). In simple terms, this means that the vehicle cannot be either sold or transferred. If it is, (which is what has happened), then the vehicle CAN be seized. 

 

As your ex partner was the registered keeper at the time of the various contraventions, then sadly, he is the person responsible for paying the debts. As such, it would be for him...and not you....to submit Out of Time witness statements. He would be able to make such applications on the basis that he had not received any of the statutory notices. In doing so, he would need to outline the reason WHY he would not have received any notices. 

 

As I understand it, there were five separate parking contraventions. Therefore, there would have been a total of 15 letters from the council (Notice to Owner (NtO), Charge Certificate and Order for Recovery). In his Out of Time application, your ex partner really should have elaborated on the reason WHY he had not received these notices. Instead, he has simply stated this:

 

'No Notice to Owner was ever received by myself, I WORK AWAY AND HAVE A 'COA' ONLY. 

 

Your ex should have provided far more detail as to WHY he did not receive the notices. For example, was he working abroad? How long was he working away for? Did the person in charge of the 'care of' address notify him of correspondence? How often did he return to that address?

 

Taking the above into consideration, I would be surprised if his applications were to be accepted. It normally takes approx. 4-6 weeks to receive notification of the decision. 

 

Did your ex provide the 'care of' address in his application? If so, has he taken steps to ensure that correspondence reaches him?

 

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HI thank you for your reply,

 

My X Partner made very clear to medway council that any corrospodance should be emailed to him. He notified them of this back in July.

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Statutory notices etc cannot be sent by email


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