United Utilities claim for outstanding balance with no move out date

[citizenm]

Hi,

 

Earlier after signing in to check my credit report, I noticed it had been dropping and discovered that there appeared to be United Utilities (UU) payments in arrears.

 

I contacted them and have discovered that this is because they have no record of me or my flatmate moving out of our flat in November 2018. They say they have been sending the bills to that address (no contact through any other medium - not sure if they have other contact details as it was a year ago) but since it was not paid they have filed a claim with Northampton court.

 

I really do seem to remember filling out an online moving out form back in December last year, but I have no record of this, and my flatmate has no records or anything and UU say they have no record of us saying we were moving out obviously

 

. The new tenants don't seem to have notified that they have moved in either as our account is still open for that address. We currently owe just over £500, but I think they said adjusted to our move out date that would be about £300.

 

The 2 options that seem to have been presented to us are to:

1. Send UU proof of us moving out on the date we say, they will then adjust the bill to the correct amount and we can pay that + their £130 court fees.

 

2. Register a defence with Northampton Court (although I'm not sure what we would say here other than we thought we did notify you of moving out but we don't have a way of proving it)

 

I'm assuming that option 1 would be the better route but I was looking for any more advice over what route to go with this that could result in the best outcome for us.

 

I don't really understand what would happen if we chose option 2, presumably someone just makes a judgement on our case but I presume it seems we would not do any better here than if we just paid UU directly and they close the matter?

 

The main thing I am concerned about is the black marks on our credit report history and I am wondering if there is any route that may have these removed?

 

I moved out of the country temporarily when we moved out, but have since moved into a new property and notified UU in May 2019 of this move in but they say this doesn't affect my old account and both can be open - I was wondering if they should of notified me of the old account still being open when this new one opened?

 

Just frustrating that this will affect my credit so much simply for not knowing we were receiving this correspondence.

 

Thanks in advance for any help! 

[dx100uk]

As you have a court claim

Please complete this

 

 

[citizenm]

Name of the Claimant: United Utilities

 

Date of issue: 12/11/2019

 

 Particulars of claim: 

 

1.£501.62 IS DUE FROM THE DEFENDANT TO THE CLAIMANT FOR WATER SERVICE CHARGES AND ANY OTHER CHARGES INCURRED RELATING TO SUCH, AT- APARTMENT *** FOR PERIOD TO 30/05/2019 ,

 

2.FULL PARTICULARS OF WHICH HAVE BEEN SUPPLIED TO THE DEFENDANT.

 

What is the total value of the claim?

I believe £501.62 from what Northampton court told me on the phone, but that is not adjusted for our move out date as the account is still open now. Adjusted to our move out date of November 29th 2018, the man on the phone at UU told me it would be £308.91. Plus court fees of £130.

 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC ( Pre Action Protocol) ?

No notice

 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred?

Yes

 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address?

Yes - I am currently billed by UU for water in my new address. I moved into this address in April 2019 and they have record of me notifying them of this in May 2019.

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account?

No

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ?

After

 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ?

I think online, but possibly by post

 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/ Equifax /Etc...) ?

Yes on ClearScore which I believe uses data from Equifax

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim.

Not sure?

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?

Not sure?

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor?

Not sure?

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ?

Haven't received any correspondence as I believe it will have all been going to my previous address

 

Why did you cease payments?

Last payment was made in June 2018 I believe, but we moved out of the property in November 2018.

 

What was the date of your last payment?

June 2018 I think

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved?

No, nothing other than this current claim issue

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan?

No

 

I don't actually have any court claim documents

- just UU told me on the phone there was one.

 

And I called Northampton court and requested they send it me via email but they seem to have sent the wrong persons claim

- the claim reference number is correct in the email subject but the attached forms are for completely different persons name and address and different company.

 

I called back and asked them to send them again, the correct ones, but I just got another email with the empty defence form attached and no actual claim form at all this time.

 

the claim is for outstanding water bills dating from June 2018, but we moved out of the property in November 2018 and they say they have no record of us notifying them of us moving.

[dx100uk]

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
[if mcol is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time]
.
 register as an individual
 note the long gateway number given
 then log in
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
 click thru to the end
 confirm and exit MCOL.
.
 get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]
..

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/
..
type your name ONLY

no need to sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]
 

[citizenm]

Thanks very much for your help @dx100uk - but do you mind explaining a little as to what I am doing here?

 

By doing the MCOL part, am I simply acknowledging I am aware of the claim against me which then give me a further 14 days to submit a defence?

 

Is the CPR request then just to get more information from UU? What is the purpose of this?

 

What happens after this?

You say I do not await the return of paperwork so what exactly is going on?

How do I ultimately resolve the claim?

 

If you see my original post where I said it seemed there were 2 options presented to me -

this seems like I am taking option 2?

Is that correct and option 1 would be inadvisable?

 

What will the outcome of this mean for my credit history?

 

Is it possible to remove the payments in arrears/default?

 

Does my flatmate also need to do this for himself since the claim was against both of us (UNITED UTILITIES WATER LIMITED v MR ***ME*** and MR ***Flatmate***) or will me doing this also be acting on his behalf as well?

 

Thanks again

 

Also, further to the above @dx100uk before I had got anywhere with this post I had already emailed off the final council tax bill as proof of us moving out of the address.

 

I didn’t reference the CCJ in any way, just simply that I was supplying proof of moving out on Nov 29th.

 

They have since replied saying:

 

Thank you for your email and final council tax bill received on 27 November 2019 regarding the water account. 

 

I have closed the account to 29 November 2018 and once the account has refreshed overnight, I will be able to advise you of the final account balance. This balance will need to be cleared to avoid a County Court Judgment. 

 

I trust the information provided will be of assistance to you. 

 

Yours sincerely

 

Does this affect your advice and answers to my above questions in any way?

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

4 hours ago, citizenm said:

Thanks very much for your help @dx100uk - but do you mind explaining a little as to what I am doing here?

 

By doing the MCOL part, am I simply acknowledging I am aware of the claim against me which then give me a further 14 days to submit a defence? - already been explained in the links you have used or read here in your thread.

 

Is the CPR request then just to get more information from UU? What is the purpose of this? - correct. they must substantiate their claim

 

What happens after this?

You say I do not await the return of paperwork so what exactly is going on - How do I ultimately resolve the claim? - already been explained in the links you have used or read here in your thread.

 

If you see my original post where I said it seemed there were 2 options presented to me -

this seems like I am taking option 2?

Is that correct and option 1 would be inadvisable? *see below.

 

What will the outcome of this mean for my credit history? Is it possible to remove the payments in arrears/default? your file is already trashed as you have a default, a CCJ will kill it too..but if either/all are a true reflection of how you operated the account then no you cant remove them.

 

Does my flatmate also need to do this for himself since the claim was against both of us (UNITED UTILITIES WATER LIMITED v MR ***ME*** and MR ***Flatmate***) or will me doing this also be acting on his behalf as well? he must duplicate EVERYTHING you do. aos/cpr defence.turning up etc etc 

 

Also, further to the above @dx100uk before I had got anywhere with this post I had already emailed off the final council tax bill as proof of us moving out of the address.

 

I didn’t reference the CCJ in any way, just simply that I was supplying proof of moving out on Nov 29th.

 

They have since replied saying:

 

Thank you for your email and final council tax bill received on 27 November 2019 regarding the water account. 

 

I have closed the account to 29 November 2018 and once the account has refreshed overnight, I will be able to advise you of the final account balance. This balance will need to be cleared to avoid a County Court Judgment. 

 

I trust the information provided will be of assistance to you. 

 

Yours sincerely

 

Does this affect your advice and answers to my above questions in any way?

 

Thanks

* 

phone them up and offer a consent order for the full revised figure as long as they remove any erroneous data from your credit file and drop the claim totally.

 

this might be the best answer.

 

who was the solicitors please??

[citizenm]

Their solicitor isn't listed in any of the documents they have sent me, but they have only sent me one scanned page via email that has any information on it. They said the full documents would have to be posted. I have attached what I have to this post.

 

are you saying I should still proceed with an AOS through MCOL?

And then submit a defence?

 

If this is the case - what would my defence be though?

That I believed I had notified them of us moving out although they (and I) have no record of it?

Would this just hopefully result in the claim being 'stayed' and then hopefully some time down the line I can attempt to get it struck off?

I can't seem to find any info on this in any of the links in the thread.

 

Or are you saying that I should now instead not bother with the AOS and just try to get UU to drop the claim simply by paying the outstanding debt + their court fees?

 

Would this avoid a CCJ on my credit file?

 

When you say 'remove any erroneous data from your credit file' would this be the payments in arrears and default or are you saying these remain?

 

Is there any links/info on how I go about offering a consent order/what one is specifically? Is it needed in this case?

Claimform.pdf

[dx100uk]

you BOTH need for the minute and SEPARATELY to do post 4 AOS and CPR regardless. NOW you are almost out of time to avoid a default judgement.

....doing those cannot harm whatever happens going forward, but is vital to prevent further potential damage that will cost you money to undo.

 

don't worry about your defence yet..

 

ring up the person that sent that email

offer a consent order for the full revised figure as long as they remove any erroneous data from your credit file and drop the claim totally.

 

as for the credit file.. i think ive been clear enough.. they must remove erroneous [made in error] data from your file

it must only contain a true reflection of how you conducted your account. but you wont get the defaultremopved no, as regardless to the figure you DID default.

 

simply use our search top right for tomlin order.

reading that email..you should be able to resolve all this as its states..this balance will need to be cleared to avoid a County Court Judgment. 

 

so whomever wrote that will know it means a tomilin and what one is.

 

at the end of the day you owe 'something' and i will guess you agree the figure is now correct..if so bite their hand off.

 

 

 

[citizenm]

Do I need to ask them for a tomlin order if I am going to pay off the outstanding figure + their costs in full immediately?

 

From what I can see a tomlin order would set up a payment plan allowing them to ask for immediate judgement if I miss a payment, but I don't need a payment plan.

 

Could I just ask to pay it off in full and ask that they drop the claim immediately?

 

Is there a different kind of legal form I need for this if I pay in full?

Or is it still just a tomlin order?

Or do I not require any form and I just take their word they will drop it immediately?

 

Just to clarify on the AOS and CPR. You say 4 AOS and CPR - by this did you mean 1 AOS each and 1 CPR each for myself and my flatmate? And I know you have just said that posting the AOS and CPR cannot harm anything going forward, but earlier you said this:

7 hours ago, dx100uk said:

select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
 click thru to the end

I just want to double check that by doing the AOS on MCOL and choosing 'defend all' as you said that this will not affect UU ability to drop the claim if I do call them first thing in the morning and pay the outstanding figure?

[dx100uk]

yes you don't need a tomlin if they agree to discontinue/drop the JOINT CLAIM if you pay the full amount they have revised it to.

i will guess that might mean 'what avoid is in their email ' but your guess is as good as mine.

 

as for whatever you are puzzled about with AOS etc

you both need to do everything below regardless..and it cant harm anything going forward.

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
[if mcol is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time]
.
 register as an individual
 note the long gateway number given
 then log in
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
 click thru to the end
 confirm and exit MCOL.
.
 get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]
..

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/
..
type your name ONLY

no need to sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

 

 

[citizenm]

Ok thanks very much for your help. Will contact UU first thing in the morning and get on with AOS & CPR.

 

Is there any legal proof I need from them if/when they agree to drop the claim after I make payment?

Or do I just take their word on it over the phone?

 

Will they be able to discontinue the claim immediately?

Or what is the usual timeframe for companies like this discounting claims? Hours? Days?

 

Presumably once dropped, I can then just forgot about any AOS and CPR requests we have made?

[dx100uk]

1 hour ago, citizenm said:

Ok thanks very much for your help. Will contact UU first thing in the morning and get on with AOS & CPR.

 

Is there any legal proof I need from them if/when they agree to drop the claim after I make payment?

Or do I just take their word on it over the phone? - they should be writing to you and the court discontinuing the claim.

 

Will they be able to discontinue the claim immediately Or what is the usual timeframe for companies like this discounting claims? Hours? Days?

- yes its typically almost immediate as they and you can use the online MCOL portal to update the claim. now how quick the court do it and write themselves and update mcol that its actually happened is another matter 

 

Presumably once dropped, I can then just forgot about any AOS and CPR requests we have made?

once the claim is discontinued its as if it never started.

[citizenm]

Called UU this morning and paid the adjusted outstanding figure + fees and they confirmed they will drop the claim against both of us.

 

The advisor said a CCJ could not now be received, but even if it was for some miraculous reason, then the fact I have already paid it means if I contacted them they would have to remove it.

 

I double checked this with him again and he then even said the fact he has confirmed it will be removed over the phone on a recorded call meant that if I did get one and disputed it, they would look back at the call recording and would have to remove it because of him advising me it will be.

 

I have also asked for this to be confirmed in writing in an email to myself which they said they will do and will be sent over to myself later today.

 

Given the reassurance that has been given, I wondered whether you still advise me to do the AOS and CPR?

 

I also wondered how I can confirm that the claim has been dropped?

Do I just need to call Northampton court in 24 hours time or so and ask for the status of the claim?

[AndyOrch]

The claimant should file and serve on you a Notice of Discontinuance N279......I would still acknowledge the claim in the meantime and get the extra days to allow the NOD to be processed.

 

Andy 

[citizenm]

Thanks for all your help. I have submitted the acknowledgement and UU have said they will not enter a CCJ.

 

I obviously will still have the payments in arrears and the default on my credit file. I was wondering if you knew how bad this looks on my credit file vs say an actual CCJ?

 

Is a CCJ much worse, or not that much worse than the default? Just wondering how badly it will affect me going forward.

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

a CCJ paid off or not will kill credit dead for 6yrs once it appears on your file.

 

a default is there for 6yrs but is 1000 times less of an issue.

and if you can prove it is not a true reflection you could deal with it

 

ort be extremely cheeky and ask UU to p'haps remove it as part of you settling?

I mean they did try and fleece you out of sums that weren't due and agreed so

 

[citizenm]

Ok thanks. What sort of argument would you go to them with in terms of removing the default?

I mean they are already dropping the claim so not sure what I would say to them.

 

'Thanks for dropping the claim but that's not good enough. Please remove the default as well because you were charging me incorrectly even though we have no record of us giving you notice of us moving out'? 

[dx100uk]

well I wouldnt say you are arguing with them no.

 

you are simply pointing out that the default was registered for the wrong amount

that makes its issuance invalid under ICO rules and shouldn't thus be showing.

 

I will assume there IS a defaulted date registered against this account? not just a load of 'D' or 8 or 6 in the calendar section you are referring too?
 

[citizenm]

Where would I see the more specific information about the default you are referring? I am just getting this information from ClearScore and the only info it gives me is:

 

June Updates

A Public Utility Account account was marked as ‘in default’ on your June report.

Organisation Name: United Utilities Water
Status: Default
Account Number: *******

 

No dates or amounts or anything specific.

Edited November 29, 2019 by citizenm

[dx100uk]

try noodle or is it credit karma now

you should be able to click on the account and drill down

 

dx

 

[citizenm]

The default or payments in arrears don't seem to show on my Credit Karma account weirdly, nor any mention of United Utilities. In fact, my score has improved on there over the last 6 months.

 

I looked and it said United Utilities share their information with Equifax and it says ClearScore get their data from Equifax, but it also says Credit Karma get their data from Equifax and TransUnion so not sure why it's not showing on there.

 

Could I get this information from UU possibly and then contest it if the amount is wrong as you suggested above?

[dx100uk]

Yes send UU and sar

[BankFodder]

open

[citizenm]

Hi again,

 

So I'm reopening this to ask for advice basically from where I left off.

 

To summarise, myself and flatmate moved out of a flat in November 2018. United Utilities say they were not notified of us moving out. I thought we did notify them, but they have no record and we have no proof we did. We were sent bills after this date which we obviously didn't receive and thus missed them going into arrears, and then defaulted.

We were heading for a CCJ before I discovered this was happening right before the court date. I then sent proof of us moving to UU, and they adjusted the bill which was paid + fees, thus avoiding the CCJ. However, the default is obviously still recorded on my credit file.

 

I know I was advised by @dx100uk to send UU a SAR and then look at potentially contesting the default as the amount may be incorrect since we were billed for a period we didn't live there, but for whatever reason I didn't do this at the time. Whether I should have or not, this is the current situation at this point.

 

So that is where I am up to, and my query is picking up from where I was 2 years ago - are there any options I have to get the default removed so that it doesn't negatively impact any application for a mortgage?

 

The only new information I have to add is:

• I have spoken to UU on the phone today and asked them to remove the defaults which they obviously refused since they said as far as they are concerned the information is accurate.
• With regards to contesting the default due to the amount being incorrect, I have checked my credit file with checkmyfile.com and this shows the default was registered in May 2019 for £308 - does this seem to imply that contesting it over the amount may be fruitless, since it seems the default amount is for the revised figure adjusted to when we moved out? (The original particulars of the claim were for ~£500 and was lowered to £308 + fees once I proved when we moved out).
• One interesting thing I have noticed on checkmyfile.com (and also on Clear Score) is that the address listed on the default/account that had the default is not correct, it is showing my current address where I live now rather than the old address. Could this be used in any way? Or could this just be listed incorrectly on these credit reporting sites but bear no significance?

Also, would you recommend I still send a SAR to UU now for my data? Or is there no point?

 

Thanks for your help.

[dx100uk]

Sadly the default 'address ' is immaterial.

 

its now showing the correct amount, so thats sorted too.

 

I cant see a route here sorry.

 

In thE current climate one default will not harm any application to even mainstream lenders, .

 

it should not harm you, but be aware that  mortgage brokers will sometimes use it as an 'excuse' to extract more money out of you or simply use non mainstream lenders as they probably get a bigger backhander from them.