Statutory declaration for a speeding fine I did not commit? **WON**

[noomill060]

I would not like to be in your ex's shoes when the Police come looking for him. Dropping you in it like this is despicable.

[Man in the middle]

 

Quote

 

What happens if I ask them for proof of evidence I was driving and they say they do not have any?

(Which most likely is the case other than my ex's word saying it was me driving).

 

 

Then you won’t be convicted. Your ex cannot give evidence to say you were driving because, unless he was in the vehicle with you at the time, he does not know who was driving. He has suggested to the police that you were. As I said earlier, the usual way for the police to get the evidence that you were driving is to ask you to name yourself. You have not done this and that is why I am very surprised you have been convicted of speeding.

There’s some other slightly incorrect information provided here:

 

Quote

 

he will have in front of him a file that details

what the charge is

the evidence

your SD

 

 

He (or more probably they) will have the first one but not the other two. The evidence will be provided by the prosecutor. The District Judge or Magistrates do not see it or have any knowledge of it prior to the trial. Your SD is irrelevant to the trial. The proceedings are effectively beginning again following your SD.

 

Quote

I would suggest that you get to the court early and seek out the duty solicitor who should be able to reassure you in the same way that dx and man in the middle have. His service is free for advice.

Unless he or she is feeling very benevolent you will not be able to see the duty solicitor. That service is available only to people appearing for the first time (which effectively you are) but also only for people facing an offence which can result in custody (which you are not).

[dx100uk]

thanks MITM

 

I forget to mention this was in a Scottish court

not sure if things are diff up here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[hassy786]

Regarding all of this I have today spoken to magistrates court face to face as I wanted to go and ask for the evidence as well as for an interpreter. They agreed on the interpreter and the evidence can be seen before the proceedings tomorrow if there is any evidence to show. 

 

Now, this is where it gets interesting... The guy asked me what exactly I am getting charged for and I told them its for speeding which he then asked me so are you telling me you received the NIP from police asking you to confirm the driver? I said no I havent received this and I did not fill anything in to send off... They then said well thats weird because this case, you should be getting charged for both, speeding as well as not identifying the driver so the question now is.. Who has received my NIP letter and who has filled in the letter and sent it off declaring they are me and that im guilty of speeding?

 

He also said, that he cant say for certain but he is assuming that my ex boyfriend wrote my name on his NIP and instead of writting my new address (Which he doesnt know) or declaring that he doesnt know my new address.. He has tried to be smart and written my old address when I lived with him. Therefore, the letter has came to him and he opened it and filled everything in declaring that im guilty! Which really, this is perverting the course of justice and should be taken seriously. 

 

How can they only charge me for speeding and not charging me for not declaring the driver of the vehicle? I havent had the chance to declare who i think the driver was and I didnt receive any letters asking me to declare this..

 

Also, seeing as they are only charging me for SPEEDING, they need to prove that on 17th November 2017, i was in the car driving the vehicle or that I took his car keys from him and took his car out without his consent which I did not as I was not living or talking with my ex boyfriend since 2016 therefore I do not know anything about it. He has basically tried to make me look like as if I am the guilty one however I did not commit this offence as I cant drive. 

 

Sounds like an easy case to solve as long as my mouth opens and my nerves dont kick in front of everyone thats there! I really hope I sort this as I dont want to be paying for someone elses mistakes! £1000, I barely have the money to sort my rent out let alone this to pay!

 

I hope that has cleared it now what im being charged for which really does not add up at all.

 

Thank you.

[hassy786]

2 hours ago, noomill060 said:

I would not like to be in your ex's shoes when the Police come looking for him. Dropping you in it like this is despicable.

 

Yes if he gets caught then yes but he seems to have played this so cleverly that really, I think the case will most likely be dropped as I dont think there is any evidence of either of us driving the vehicle.

 

Thanks.

[Man in the middle]

The plot thickens:

 

If, as you suspect, your ex completed the second request for driver's details as if it was you completing it you really do need to see that document. It must be made available to you as it is the only evidence that would normally be available to support a speeding charge. If you see it and it was not completed by you, you must say so as soon as you have the opportunity.

 

Quote

How can they only charge me for speeding and not charging me for not declaring the driver of the vehicle? I havent had the chance to declare who i think the driver was and I didnt receive any letters asking me to declare this.

 

Because if your suspicion (above) is correct they believe that form was completed by you so they believe they have the evidence to convict you of speeding. Your description sound a very likely scenario because without that form completed by you they have no evidence you were driving. They would not charge you with failing to provide the driver's details because they believe that you had!

 

Quote

Yes if he gets caught then yes but he seems to have played this so cleverly that really, I think the case will most likely be dropped as I dont think there is any evidence of either of us driving the vehicle.

 

If he has done what you suspect then the speeding matter is immaterial and is in any case the least of his worries. If you are acquitted you should ask the police to re-open their enquiries into your ex and his attempt to pervert the course of justice. Naming you when he knew you could not have been the driver is bad enough, but to compound it by falsely completing the return in your name adds a new dimension and they need to take an added interest.

[dx100uk]

oppss get the handcuffs ready lads...what a nice bloke..

 

dx

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[hassy786]

So its definately true that there should have been a failure to identify driver offence as well as the speeding offence however its only a speeding offence here which doesnt add up as I havent received an NIP to have the chance to explain who I think was the driver of the vehicle. So question is, who has received the letter in my name and why did they plead me as guilty and send it off?

 

I am definitely going to go in tomorrow morning for my hearing and the first thing I am going to ask for is to see the evidence they have got against me as I want to see when they received my NIP and why they have received a document I did not write. Surely they are meant to charge me for a failing to identify driver offence as well as speeding so something is definately wrong.

 

I do hope they let me see the evidence before the hearing starts because I really need to see that evidence!

[Man in the middle]

Quote

So its definately true that there should have been a failure to identify driver offence as well as the speeding offence however its only a speeding offence here which doesnt add up

 

No no no !!!

 

If the situation is as you suspect (that is, that your ex filled in the first request for information naming you, he received the second one - addressed to you -  and filled it in pretending to be you) then, as far as the police were concerned, he completed the first one, you completed the second.

 

They then have the replies they need. They also have (false) evidence that you were driving and you were convicted because of that. Nobody (in their view) has failed to provide the driver's details.

 

Quote

I do hope they let me see the evidence before the hearing starts because I really need to see that evidence!

 

They must let you see it. It's the law. It's called "disclosure". You need to see what evidence they are relying on to prove that you were driving.

 

If you are not given it before you go in to the court, ask for it before you enter your plea (which will be Not Guilty if things are as you describe). You should be given time to study what you have been given. If you are not sure of anything, ask. 

 

Sometimes - strange as it may seem -  prosecutors themselves are helpful to defendants. If not, ask the court's Legal Advisor (the person who sits in front of the Magistrates) to explain it to you. He or she has a duty to assist you, as an unrepresented defendant, on procedural matters. If - as you suspect - it is a document which you have not completed and signed yourself, you must make it known.

 

Hope all goes well.

[hassy786]

Yes i realise this but what i meant was that in my view i havent been able to provide driver details therefore how am i not being charged for a failure to provide driver details offence but obviously its because they seem to have proof of me providing my NIP to them which I need to go and see as I havent provided anything to say I know the driver due to not receiving the NIP in the first place. Therefore somebody could have possibly tried to declare they are me.

 

Will I be able to show the evidence to a friend of mine as he is going to know about this a lot better and understand it better than me.. English is not my first language and its hard for me to understand it especially when im going to be there with nerves kicking in and wont know what to say therefore I would like to be able to show someone the evidence so they can see whats happened... Any chance of this?

 

Does anyone have a picture or something I can look at so I know exactly what document I am looking for as I have no idea what it is mean t to look like..

[honeybee13]

I haven't found an image of a NIP online yet, but I'd have thought there would be some, if that's what you're looking for a picture of.

 

I assume this form has to be signed so maybe you can prove it isn't your signature or writing.

 

Good luck today.

 

HB

[Man in the middle]

If you've not gone to court yet and see this, your friend can sit beside you in the court. He will be allowed to speak to you and discuss documents with you but he will not be allowed to address the court. Tell the court you want him to be with you as a "McKenzie Friend". They will know what you mean.

[hassy786]

Hello

 

Good news and I honestly couldnt have done it without you guys! Got there asked for my interpretor who really really helped me with the case and explained everything to me properly.

 

The judge started by asking the prosecuter what happened and the prosecuter pretty much told them everything stating facts that i do not drive and made no contact with my ex in 3 years.

 

The court asked 1 question only and that was "Why was there no statutory declaration made within 21 days of the offence reaching the defendant?"

 

In which the prosecutor stated that no emails where received due to an address change and a NIP was not received to the defendant.

 

I then asked my interpretor if he could ask the judges for the case evidence which they showed.

 

1) The picture of the car was blurry and it was only from behind so the registration could be seen but nothing else. At the front, you could only see the front bumper of the car.

 

2) They then showed me the NIP which was meant to be received at my address however it was sent to old address (whsre i was living with my ex 3 years ago) and the prosecutor asked me to confirm the signature was mine.. Obviously, I said no this is not mine and i did not fill this document in.

 

The interpretator told me he had seen the evidence sheet from the prosecutor and it was literally blank. Nothing on it at all so no evidence that it was me.

 

Pretty much from there the judges realised that this was a case of perverting the course of justice and they have now set up a court trial which i need to attend in febuary.

 

Before leaving the room.. The judge said "I cant promise you will win however I can assure you, it definately will not take long to sort this out".

 

So pretty much they already know exactly whats happened and they told me that when I am at the court trial in febuary, I need to bring a signature from lets say my passport so they can cross reference this to the signature on the NIP.

 

Ones I have won the case, I will be filling against him for perverting the course of justice as well as claim any lost monies back.

 

Thank you so much for all your guidance.  Its people like you guys who do good for this world.

 

[honeybee13]

That sounds like good news, hassy, well done today.

 

If you haven't already, you might like to 'thank' the people who have helped you the most [I don't mean me] by clicking on the heart at the bottom right of one of their posts.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

i like the judges atfer comment!!

 

well done MITM..

 

dx

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Man in the middle]

Excellent news. Thanks for letting us know.

[hassy786]

Hello guys,

 

Back to reviving this thread again and asking for your help ones again guys.

 

it has gone to a court trial which is on Monday 03/02/2020 and at the last court hearing I was told to bring 

1) Proof of passport signature - (This will show the signature on the NIP is not my signature which is different to the signature on my passport).

2) My online driving licence check which shows any points I have and what licence I hold. 

 

However, I today have received a letter stated "NOTICE TO DEFENDANT: PROOF BY WRITTEN STATEMENT" and there is a lot of statement evidence papers with it.

 

On the paper it says "the prosecutor wants to introduce this evidence in writing, instead of the witness giving the evidence in person.

 

How to reply to this notice:

 

If you do NOT want the prosecutor to introduce the evidence of these witnesses in writing, you must 

1) List the witness you want to give evidence in person

2) send me the list not more than 7 days after this notice is served on you

3) Be prepared to explain to the court what issue in the case makes it necessary for the witness to give evidence in person".

 

Can someone please tell me what exactly this means because I just read this and was lost in what they are asking from me...? I have read the evidence and would like to ask questions such as why my ex boyfriend has given my name on the NIP and an old address where he still currently lives and where I used to live but have not lived in the last 3 years as I broke up with him 3 years ago.

 

Something else I would like to ask is why the statements where filled in by him as the hand writing belongs to him therefore he has faked my signature on the NIP and put me down as guilty for speeding yet I dont know how to drive a car!

 

Especially as he is driving illegally with a banned licence therefore thought he could be clever by putting my name down instead of his for his mischievous mistakes!

 

If I am right, is this letter asking me if I agree with the statements/evidence and if I do not agree with them then I can write the evidence/statement and explain what my issue is with them and at the court trial the statement will be giving by person instead of writing?

 

Sorry to revive an old thread im loosing my head over this.

 

Thanks.

[hassy786]

Hello,

 

If anyone can help me it would be great.

 

My friend received a speeding offence which was long story short her ex boyfriend speeding and trying to pin the blame on her.

A bit stupid as she has not seen him in past 3 years but he got himself a speeding fine and passed the blame on to her.

 

Instead of writing her new address or saying he doesnt know the address, he played it clever by giving his own address (her OLD address) so that the NIP arrives there and he fills it in impersonating as her (Including a fake signature). She only realised when the court started charging her on her wage slips and she had no clue about it and when she called the court up they told her everything and she did a statement to say it wasnt her driving and she had no idea what was going on.

 

There was a court hearing and at the court hearing it was found the statement was not written by her and it couldnt possibly been her as she cant drive a car any way and doesnt hold a full uk licence to drive as well. It has now gone to a court TRIAL and we have no idea what this is and who is going to be there. Is her ex boyfriend going to be there as she may just kill him there and then (pun intended) haha.

 

So it has gone to a court trial which is on Monday 03/02/2020 and at the last court hearing she was told to bring 

1) Proof of passport signature - (This will show the signature on the NIP is not her signature which is different to the signature on her passport).

2) her online driving licence check which shows any points she has and what licence she holds. 

 

However, she today has received a letter stated "NOTICE TO DEFENDANT: PROOF BY WRITTEN STATEMENT" and there is a lot of statement evidence papers with it. On the paper it says "the prosecutor wants to introduce this evidence in writing, instead of the witness giving the evidence in person. How to reply to this notice:

 

If you do NOT want the prosecutor to introduce the evidence of these witnesses in writing, you must 

1) List the witness you want to give evidence in person

2) send me the list not more than 7 days after this notice is served on you

3) Be prepared to explain to the court what issue in the case makes it necessary for the witness to give evidence in person".

 

Can someone please tell me what exactly this means because we just read this and where lost in what they are asking from her...? She has read the evidence and would like to ask questions such as why her ex boyfriend has given her name on the NIP and an old address where he still currently lives and where she used to live but has not lived in the last 3 years as she broke up with him 3 years ago.

 

Something else she would like to ask is why the statements where filled in by him as the hand writing belongs to him therefore he has faked her signature on the NIP and put her down as guilty for speeding yet she dont know how to drive a car! Especially as he is driving illegally with a banned licence therefore thought he could be clever by putting her name down instead of his for his mischievous mistakes!

 

Any heads up on the court trial?

 

Thanks

 

 

[dx100uk]

you wish to question him in person 

you cant question a written statement!!

 

however does the written statements they have send basically state he admits doing all this to you?

if he admits everything , then other than fronting him out before a judge, I can't see the benefit to you doing it in person?

 

just musing..

[dx100uk]

threads merged please keep to one thread

 

dx

 

[Man in the middle]

If you want to query any of the information contained in the statements (that is, to "cross-examine" the person who provided them) then you must ask for them to be present for the trial. It is a bit late to ask you whether you want anybody present on Monday - they will almost certainly not attend because they have not been given enough notice. 

 

Is there anything in the statements with which you do not agree?

It seems to me the issue here is that you did not see the request for information which was sent to you as a result of your ex naming you as the driver. He dealt with it (although it was addressed to you) and forged your signature.

 

As such I think the only defence you need to make out is that you did not complete the document,  the signature is not yours and so the document cannot be used to prove you were driving.

 

A comparison with your passport signature should show that to be true.

I don't know that you really need to question any evidence provided by the statements.

[hassy786]

Thanks for the reply,

 

Yes the request for information is 1 and also in the statements there is an email conversation using a fake email account which does not belong to me and I did not create it stating that "I have lost my driving licence and going to poland and that they can keep a copy of my passport if they need to use it.

 

I think when he sent of the request for information, they replied back with a conditional offer of educational course and fee instead of the points. As he gave my name, he didnt have the driving licence number to give therefore they could not submit the admission for a educational course and then he tried to be more clever and created a fake email account impersonating as me so he could tell them over email that "I lost my driving licence and im going to poland and they can keep a picture copy of my passport to use (Seems like he has my OLD passport and is trying to use my documents)

 

I would like to know why he is trying to impersonate me and if he is not there on the day how would I do that?

 

Also the letter was received to me on 29/01/2020 but I received it 31/01/2020 which really only gives mes 2 days to send it back to the court who wont receive it any way ?

 

So what do I do?

[Man in the middle]

3 hours ago, hassy786 said:

I would like to know why he is trying to impersonate me

He is obviously trying to impersonate you so that he can avoid the speeding fine. However, he won't be there. Let me explain.

 

In order to prove that you were driving the prosecution needs the reply from you saying you were the driver at the time the speeding offence was committed.

 

What they have is a forgery of that document, completed by your ex. 

He has completed it and signed it as if he was you.

In doing so he has committed a serious criminal offence which carries a jail term. However, that's not for you to worry about

 

. What you need to show the court is that you did not complete it. You should be able to do this by letting the court compare your signature (on your passport) with the forged one your ex has provided. It will also help when you explain that you do not and never have driven and do not have a licence.

 

The completed response I mentioned above will form part of the prosecution's evidence but it will not be necessary for your ex to attend court.

[Gick]

Man in the middle has clearly explained what the trial on Monday will entail, but from previous posts it seems that you may be confusing the purpose of the hearing. Irrespective of the background to the production of the NIP, the court is only interested in whether the prosecutor (the Police) can prove that YOU were guilty of the offence.

 

You are producing a signature (historic, not recently manufactured) which can be compared with that on the form returned. You will also be able to state on oath that you do not hold and never have held a driving licence and do not know how to drive. This  should be sufficient to have the case dismissed.

 

THEN, there is every likeliness that an investigation will be ordered and your ex-boyfriend will face a criminal trial which will hopefully answer all of the questions that remain in your mind. There is every likeliness that he will face a long time in prison which may help to mitigate the harm, time wasted and stress that he has caused.

 

Good luck.

 

 

[hassy786]

I see understood now. Im guessing I dont need to fill the list in and return it then as my job is to basically prove it wasnt me that is all. 

 

And how would I be able to claim for any loses by any chance? E.g. being off work now for 3 days because of having to deal with this situation.. Any way to claim losses?

 

Thanks.