NCP PCN - but i've paid! *** Appeal Successful***

[pumpytums]

Sometimes I have a sixth sense about things.

 

One such occurance is when parking on a NCP carpark in Shrewsbury.

 

Low and behold two weeks later I received an prospective invoice stating I had not paid to park.

 

Luckily I had the foresight to keep the receipt from the machine.

 

This is clearly a valid ticket

reg is valid

as is amount paid

I had nearly an hour left on ticket too.

 

Makes you wonder how many others they have had money from.

 

Always pay on a card always take a copy of the receipt. 

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

If you'd like us to advise you on this, please copy and paste the information requested in the forum sticky with your answers.

 

 

 

 

HB

[pumpytums]

Hi Honeybee,

thank you for the reply I have appealed lets see how that goes.

 

Thanks again

[honeybee13]

I don't think we said to appeal, did we?

 

Can you post up what you said please in case it's made things a bit more complicated?

 

HB

[pumpytums]

Hi HB,

I said I was the owner of the vehicle and that I had a copy of the receipt from the ticket machine and asked them to explain why I was being sent an invoice for £60 when a valid ticket was purchased.

 

I also stated I wanted to open an official complaint as I felt they were committing fraud.

 

I sent them a scan of the receipt as part of the appeal.

The receipt clearly gives the issue date and the max departure date and the reg of the vehicle.

 

Thanks

[ericsbrother]

can you post up a redacted copy of the NTK and also if the place is near to you some images of the sigange and the parking paymwent meter so we can read the terms offered?

[pumpytums]

Here is the front page with a copy of ticket bottom corner. I will take some better scans tonight, sorry the area is quite a way from my home.

 

Have deleted the jpeg and converted it to pdf, its not a good idea to post jpeg directly to a thread, only registered signed in CAGGERS can view a pdf, anyone can see a jpeg.  BN

 

pumpytums.pdf

[pumpytums]

Just received an email from my NCP saying my appeal was successful. Unfortunately they have given no reason why it happen the cheeky sods have also stated :-

"Please ensure you take into account the terms and conditions of parking, to ensure you do not receive any further Parking Charge Notices."

 

I have requested an official complaint be opened but they seem to have ignored that can I contact the DVLA and maybe POPLA because there is something massively wrong with their system?

 

Thanks

[lookinforinfo]

Well done. They would hardly admit that they had made a mistake. However they have breached your rights under GDPR. The going rate for something like that is £500.

 

Instead of asking them to look into your complaint, fire off a letter to them advising them that they even though they have cancelled your ticket, they still breached GDPR and for such a serious and unwarranted breach and you would be looking to them to financially recompense you with a sum £500 to avoid  Court procedures and any further embarrassment for them by being in the papers as well as educating others that recompense is available.

 

Keep the letter as should they try and weasel out of it, your next step would be to complain to the ICO.

[pumpytums]

Thank you very much I will warm the old laser printer

[pumpytums]

Does this sound okay please lookinforinfo ?

 

"I refer to your letter dated xxxxx relating to the parking of my vehicle in the xxxxxx.

 

Thank you for the appeal reply dated xxxxxx. I must say I’m rather bemused by the content of said appeal reply specifically “Please ensure you take into account the terms and conditions of parking, to ensure you do not receive any further Parking Charge Notices” from the information I have on file it appears a ticket was indeed purchased from the machine at the above car park and paid for using cash specifically £xxxx. The registration of my vehicle was entered correctly as shown on the receipt as was the amount paid covered the length of stay of my vehicle again shown on the receipt. I can therefore see no breach of your terms and conditions.

 

More importantly it appears that National Car Parks limited have breached my rights under the GDPR 2018. As you can appreciate as a company who understands the GDPR 2018 this is an incredibly serious and unwarranted breach. Having read up on such breaches I believe recompense is due to myself of £500. I require that this can be paid to myself within the next 4 weeks otherwise I will be seeking Court action and contacting the ICO. I don’t believe that this is an isolated incident at all hopefully the ICO will be able to contact other affected parties.

 

I do hope any further action can be avoided and I look forward to your prompt reply.""

 

Should I mention the DVLA too I know for a fact that they got the data from them? Also is the breach unlawful or illegal ?

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/804462/inf266-release-of-information-from-dvlas-registers.pdf

 

I think I have answered my own question DVLA will only release information if its lawful and fair, NCP have therefore unlawfully and unfairly obtained my personal information from the DVLA.

 

So to get this straight in my head NCP have breached the GDPR by obtaining personal and private information from the DVLA unlawfully and unfairly without reasonable cause and used the data for potential financial gain for themselves. Ouch naughty NCP.

 

"The law allows DVLA to release information from the vehicle register to the police and local authorities. Regulation 27 of the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulation 2002 also allows us to release data to private or public sector organisations and individuals providing they can demonstrate reasonable cause to have it."

 

"All of DVLA’s data sharing is carried out in accordance with data protection legislation. The Data Protection Act 2018 does not prevent data from being disclosed where this is done within data protection legislation. The right to process the data is either contained in statute, in common law or other prerogative powers of the Crown. DVLA will only release information when it is lawful and fair to do so."

Edited December 4, 2019 by pumpytums

[brassnecked]

DVLA will claim NCP have a right to the data as they have an arrangement KADOE(Keeper of a Vehicle at the Date of an Event) contract I think and are approved, plus DVLA get £2.50 I think for passing on your data.  they technically are out of the frame. NCP are the target for asking for your data without any reasonable cause.

[pumpytums]

Morning,

I was only considering contacting DVLA as NCP have obtained the data unlawfully and unfairly without reasonable cause. If NCP said they had reasonable cause it puts into doubt their whole ANPR and ticketing system.

 

As you said NCP are the target for the requesting the data.

 

Thanks

[FTMDave]

Firstly, well done for getting organised to hit these fleecers in the pocket - about time they got a taste of their own medicine.

 

I was just wondering whether £500 is an appropriate amount.  Of course you deserve £500!  But I remember this case  http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/12/liverpool-business-park-motorist-wins.html  where the motorist claimed & won £250 (you could also quote this case).  NCP might be more likely to cough up £250 without a fight and/or if it came to court a judge may be more inclined to find for you.  Just a thought.

 

Also, up to you if you want to write the letter as drafted and if NCP are uncooperative then hit them with a Letter Before Action, or alternatively you could toughen up your planned letter and make it an LBA straight away.     

[pumpytums]

Thanks Dave,

that's very interesting I know what you mean that case was from 2016. I suppose they were trying to get £100 out of me for a potential missed payment of £5.

 

The question I may be asked would be how I came about a figure of £500 a litigant in person could claim £19 per hour so I suppose if it went to small claims I could easily rack up £500 that's only 25 hours with no postage or printing etc. I have defended cases before and won so I know how quickly the hours roll by.

 

I will send the first letter prior to the LBA to show that I have attempted to sort the matter out fairs fair

 

Thanks again for the information

[lookinforinfo]

Couple of posts by the Parking Prankster

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2018/04/parking-awareness-do-not-contest-535.html 

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2017/05/motorist-awarded-900-for-data.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2017/08/cp-plus-lose-data-protection-claim.html

 

and lastly a guide from the PP on claiming for breaches of data protection

https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/data-protection-act/

 

Up to you how much you ask for if anything.  But anywhere between £250 and £750 has been granted in Court. Asking for £250 is perhaps more likely for them to pay up rather than going to Court and possibly costing them more.

Edited December 4, 2019 by lookinforinfo

[pumpytums]

Many thanks Lookinforinfo,

that certainly settles the matter of the £500, fantastic information

 

Time to go to the post office Special delivery of course

 

Merry Christmas NCP

 

Thanks agian

[lookinforinfo]

The other thing is that whatever the amount you ask for initially, they may well offer less. so better to start at £500 than a lesser figure. You may decide to accept or haggle their offer up since any offer would mean they know they are in the wrong.

 

To answer your question, parts of GDPR breaches are illegal and others are unlawful. Under S170  it is illegal to knowingly or recklessly obtain, retain, disclose or procure the disclosure of personal data without consent, or to sell or offer to sell personal data which has been unlawfully obtained, retained, disclosed or procured.

 

Did they just make a mistake with your ticket or were they reckless? I doubt they would want the Court to have that decided since they will know of other instances when they have pursued some one else who had also paid. i'd go for reckless..........

 

PS I wouldn't waste your time with the DVLA these quasi government departments tend to be very slippery and hard to pin down. 

Edited December 5, 2019 by lookinforinfo

[ericsbrother]

The DVLA will obfuscate and dither because they make millions out of this racket and the estimate of lawfully issued  NTK's is actually very small. Their quality control is laughable ( they ask PE to tell them about a single parking eevnt of PE's choosing), however, that shouldt stop you from making a comaplint to both the DVLA and when you get their rubbish response to the ICO.

Whej parliament is fed up choking on brexit they might get round to looking at such matters again and possibly force the DVLA to enforce protocols that make the parking bandits obey the law.

[pumpytums]

Morning everyone,

yes the DVLA should be accountable 100%.

 

Letter sent to NCP.

 

On a side note and this is very interesting my vehicle was parked in the same carpark at the weekend (receipt kept and scanned :P). We were taking to a lady and NCP tried to do her son twice in the same car park via PCN's. So its certainly not an isolated incident at all. I wonder if it would be worth getting in touch with the local paper in the area?

 

Thanks

[brassnecked]

I'm sure the local press would be interested in NCP and dodgy tickets, which they will loudly and incorrectly label FINES, might well be worth a punt, plus some shaming on Social Media,.

[ericsbrother]

agree, the more a light is shone on thie appalling behaviour of these companies the sooner parliament will revisit the law

[pumpytums]

Hi Everyone,

just preparing my letter before claim for NCP as there time is almost up. Does this sound okay :-

 

 

LETTER BEFORE COURT CLAIM

 

Dear Sir/Madam, 

I refer to my letter dated xx received and signed for by yourselves on the yy. I have received no reply or acknowledgement of the above with regards to National Car Parks Limited breach of the GDPR 2018 with regards to the unwarranted retrieval of my personal data from the DVLA and your  subsequent processing and use of my personal data between the dates of dd and dd.

 

On the xx my vehicle reg was parked at LOCATION between approximately 10am to 2pm. A ticket was purchased from the NCP Ticket machine and a fee of ££ was paid. On or about DATE NCP sent a Parking Charge Notice to Keeper requesting an amount of £60 or £100. The notice caused myself distress and was a clear breach of GDPR 2018. On the DATE I telephoned NCP questioning the notice, I also spent time searching for the receipt for the above and time completing NCP’s appeal process again this caused distress and damages.

 

On DATE an email received from NCP confirmed that the appeal of the above notice was successful but offered no explanation or apology. 

 

As such I sent NCP a letter requesting (received DATE) recompense for distress and damages for the sum of £500, I allowed NCP 14 days to reply. To date NCP have not replied or acknowledged my letter.

 

If I do not receive recompense (£500) within 14 days after receipt of this letter, I will take legal action against National Carparks Limited for their breach of GDPR 2018. I will also be contacting the ICO and the DVLA.

 

I refer you to the Practice Direction (Pre-Action Protocols) in particular paragraph 15 and the sanctions for non compliance. You can find these on the Ministry of Justice website at: http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/pd_pre-action_conduct

 

 

Any Court proceedings will include a claim for interest from the due date (DATE), Court fees and legal costs. Where appropriate, interest, compensation and further costs under the Late Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998 will be claimed at the courts discretion.

 

I hope any legal action can be avoided and I look forward to your prompt reply.

 

For you records this letter will be sent via a recorded postal method."

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by pumpytums

[brassnecked]

Looks reasonable, you have indicated their failings that give rise to the claim, the team might have suggestions as what would be best to put in the POC if you do decide to sue their sorry jive-ass.

[FTMDave]

Well done in going for this - I wish more people would.  You paid.  You did nothing wrong.  In return they went nosing into your personal affairs with the DVLA and send you demands for monies which were not owed.  They deserve a good kicking.

 

I'm no expert, but just one disagreement with the bit you put in bold in your draft.  I've found on  https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/pdf/protocols/debt-pap.pdf

 

3.4 If the debtor does not reply to the Letter of Claim within 30 days of the date at the top of the letter, the creditor may start court proceedings, subject to any remaining obligations the creditor may have to the debtor (for example, under the Financial Conduct Authority’s Handbook) account should be taken of the possibility that a reply was posted towards the end of the 30-day period.

 

so maybe best to give them 30 days to cough up.

 

Good luck!