Parents taking me to court over my house!

[NGEddie]

Hi all

 

Wow, do I have a situation to contend with now! I shall include as many important facts as needed.

 

I have received a solicitors letter today, by instruction of MY PARENTS claiming they are beneficially entitled to a property I purchased in 1999.

 

This property belonged to my Grandad who sadly passed away in 1993. He had hand written a will, not witnessed by anyone, leaving the property to my Mother and not his Son. Of course my Mothers Brother wasn’t happy with this and contested it which ended up in court. This dragged on for a long time, it could have been years? Until it was decided the house be sold and money divided equally. From memory I think the legal feels were around £30k ish.

 

At this time my parents didn’t have jobs and I was able to obtain a mortgage in 1999 and after going on the market purchased the house for £50k as it needed a lot of work. At the time I was very close to my parents and it felt a good thing to keep the house in the family circle as such (like cars sometimes) but was obviously in my name as the owner. I paid the mortgage and utilities on it and it sat empty for ten years whilst deciding what to do, more my Mother not wanting anyone to touch it and change memories.

 

The council kept writing to me until eventually said it would be a forced sale if nothing done with it. I then obtained additional borrowing to fund the complete renovation and then rented it out with the idea if it reducing the mortgage. Around the same time and during the crash I manged to buy another house needing work, by using equity on first as a deposit and a mortgage on the new house.

 

My parents would always refer to the 1999 as my house although this felt awkward. A few years along the way (2010/1/2) my Dad purchased their council house at a reduced rate.

 

I moved out of my parents home in 2014 and into the second house once it was all modernised, which since the relationship with parents has just deteriorated a lot. Arguing about lots and them saying I need to ‘sign the house back over to them’ on more than one occasion.

 

To fast forward, the tenants moved out of the property recently and my parents found because as creepy as it sounds, I think they used to drive by or watch them. The signing back over has been demanded recently to which I said was ridiculous etc…

 

Today I get this letter with 29 paragraphs and crux of which being to transfer to property, with vacant possession and mortgage free, to them and in addition any surplus rent from the previous ten years!

 

The letter is full of lies my parents have told the solicitor such as:

 

I lived with them rent free in lieu of paying the mortgage

They paid all the utility bills and council tax

They paid for and carried out most of the work back on the house in between purchase and 2008 when renovated

My Father dealt with the letting agents recently and I ‘merely’ signed the tenancy agreement

 

There was a time, as my parents have always been high maintenance, I had written something for my Mum to say although I own the house, morally it belongs to her as probably thought it would help the relationship. A copy of this has been included, although I think looks slightly different to what I had printed and also says…about asking their permission to sell it and they could move in if they ever wanted, I really do not recall saying that! This piece of paper I refer to has no date or signature.

 

My goodness, this has completely knocked me for six. Its like history repeating itself!

 

I have checked with Eon, Council tax etc… so far and all have been in my name and paid for by me.

 

The letter also says ‘the facts of this case are familiar to you and you ought not to require any further enquiry’ which almost is like the solicitor knows this is all hearsay/BS and no proof? Also that I should respond to the claim within 28 days. The letter was also not recorded in case it makes a difference.

 

Another paragraph says advises my parents 'have a strong claim that I am holding the property on trust for them absolutely by way of constrictive trust and/or proprietary estoppel' I have no idea what this means!

 

One thing I should point out, I used to be very much in my parents bubble, asking them for advice, wanting their approval, very much lacking confidence in awareness of my own abilities. It is since I have started thinking for myself they don't have the hold on me their behavior  have become worse.

 

What are your thoughts please? I really have no idea what to think!

 

Many thanks in advance as always

 

E!

[Ethel Street]

My thought is: you need a solicitor yourself, and quickly.

 

The legal situation sounds extremely complicated. 

 

There's only question that I feel confident in advising you on. You ask "The letter was also not recorded in case it makes a difference." No it doesn't. It might have done if you hadn't received the letter, but you have.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Ethel Street

[NGEddie]

I was really hoping for a different answer, but this site has served me well so I have faith in your answers.

 

The most frustrating thing is this is all lies, total lies even to the wording in the letter which my mental parents use!

[honeybee13]

Eddie, you're going to need a paper trail. Do you have letters, emails and so on that go back through the years?

 

HB

[Ethel Street]

53 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

 

 

 

Good point from HB.

 

Before you see a solicitor start trawling everything you have for relevant papers -  emails, letters etc. + All the documentation you have relating to the purchase of the house. And copies of everything else that you mention about bills, tenants etc. That could all amount to a lot of paper. 

 

Then take a photocopy of everything you have found ready to give to your solicitor.

 

And make some notes for yourself in detail about everything you remember.

 

Incidentally, it's just my opinion that  will  need more legal advice than can be given here. Maybe someone will come along who is an expert in this. But TBH I think that is unlikely, that's why I recommend you get your own solicitor asap. Because (a) it's legally complex and (b) there's a lot of money at stake for you.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Ethel Street

[BankFodder]

I agree that you certainly are going to need some proper legal help on this but it may be possible to analyse your story and to distil it to the relevant aspects. what you've written here is very heavy on narrative and I think that is part of the reason why it is difficult for people to understand exactly what the situation is.

 

I'm not saying that I can give you the answers but I will have a think about it it and and if I can get the time, I'll try and put a few points down tomorrow but don't hold your breath as to any dazzling insights!

[NGEddie]

Thank you, I really appreciate the comments.

 

I guess I was hoping like the incorrectly worded default notice someone spottted for me on here, but the solicitor thought was fine, could happen again.

 

There is quite a lot to this, which bits of the story can I provide to help you to help me?

 

There is a paper trail from eon, council tax, I have all the paperwork for the mortgage, like changes in rates, paperwork for the letting BD tenancy agreements etc?

[BankFodder]

I'm trying to work through this step-by-step as I read the story again.

There was a dispute over a will in respect of your grandfather's house but the dispute was eventually abandoned and it seems that the house was apportioned to your mother and her brother who presumably were the only two children. The will was unsigned and so we could say that the house passed to the two of them under the rules of intestacy.

You then decided to buy the house for £50,000 and presumably the money you paid was divided between your mother and your uncle – who were the owners of the house.

This was in 1999.

We talking about 20 years ago here and so in respect of most legal questions I would have thought that some limitation period applied. (However the issue of the trust has been raised – and this wouldn't be affected by limitation)

However, presumably the house was bought at a proper value given the market at the time and any work that it needed doing.

Presumably the house was properly conveyed.

Although a lot of things have passed – including home improvements, tenancies et cetera, from the story you have told us, neither your parents nor your uncle have been involved in this at all.

Now you have received a letter from your parents saying that the house is really theirs and that you have simply been holding it on trust for them and they now want it back.

Is this a reasonable summary of what has happened?

 

Although you have written a fair bit about bills, tenancies, and that you have lived in your parents home for some of this 20 years, I'm not sure what relevance that has to the problem. I have to say that your explanation is very unclear. A bit rambling in fact. If you think that part of the story is relevant then maybe you'd like to express it all a little more clearly and say in what way you think it is relevant to the problem.
You are much more familiar with the story then I am but I don't see that those factors are terribly important on the brief understanding that I have. if if any money is owed to your parents because of you having lived with them et cetera then it seems to me that that is a separate matter and has nothing to do with your ownership of the property.

You say that you have received a letter from solicitors claiming first of all that there is a constructive trust or that you might be subject to a proprietary estoppel.
In terms of the estoppel, that doctrine is only available in very particular circumstances and could not be used to attack you in any event. Estoppel, whether it is proprietary or promissory can only be used as a defence. So the question of estoppel in this situation is completely irrelevant, in my view, although I don't see any basis for one in any event.

So what remains is the possibility of a constructive trust.

It seems to me to be highly unlikely that there is such a trust and I think that the first question needs to be asked is on what basis they consider that there is a constructive trust. Secondly, of course, even if there was a constructive trust, on the basis of what you have told us, it wouldn't only be your mother who was the beneficiary, it would also be your uncle. Furthermore, if you were a constructive trustee then at the very least you would be entitled to recover all of the expenses that you had laid out over 30 years – including the cost of the property plus interest – less any financial benefit that you had accrued from renting it out and so forth.

I'm not sure how good this analysis is. This is well out of my experience – but I would suggest that you consider it and see whether any of it rings true. I would also start making a very detailed account of all the money which you have spent over the years on the property and also a detailed account of all the benefits you have accrued from it. I wouldn't supply this to their solicitor but if you end up having to instruct your own lawyer then I'm sure that you may be asked for this if there is any suspicion that a constructive trust may exist.

Frankly it sounds like a load of rubbish to me but we will be very interested if you will keep us up to date.

So there you have it. No particular answers. Just a few unsupported and unqualified opinions  

 

[Ethel Street]

One question for clarification. Is your uncle, your mother's brother who the court said was entitled to 50% of the property, still alive? If so is this solicitor saying they are acting for him as well?

Edited November 22, 2019 by Ethel Street

[BankFodder]

One further thing which occurs to me is that if there is any kind of trust, then it must have come into existence at the time you became the legal owner of the property. It is that event and that moment in time which needs to be looked at and analysed.

If your parents are saying that as a result of their subsequent supporting of you either by giving you are lending you money or by giving you a place to stay et cetera has retrospectively produced a trust of the house of which they are beneficiaries then I think that this is probably legally impossible.

[NGEddie]

Thank you all again.

 

I think the word story is quite apt as it is clear from the 29 points over 6 pages that my parents have insisted lots of frankly irrelevant and often untrue things have been included in the solicitors letter.

 

Here is me filling in the gaps!

 

There was a dispute over a will in respect of your grandfather's house but the dispute was eventually abandoned and it seems that the house was apportioned to your mother and her brother who presumably were the only two children. The will was unsigned and so we could say that the house passed to the two of them under the rules of intestacy.

 

Not abandoned, it went to court and the court decided it should be sold and the £ divided between my Mother and my Uncle who were the only two children. So maybe they did own it whilst on the market?

You then decided to buy the house for £50,000 and presumably the money you paid was divided between your mother and your uncle – who were the owners of the house.

 

Correct, it went on the market, a few people viewed it, my parents were awkward towards these potential buyers and then I made the offer to the estate agent and purchased it.

This was in 1999.

We talking about 20 years ago here and so in respect of most legal questions I would have thought that some limitation period applied. (However the issue of the trust has been raised – and this wouldn't be affected by limitation)

However, presumably the house was bought at a proper value given the market at the time and any work that it needed doing. Presumably the house was properly conveyed.

 

Exactly, 20 years is ridiculous, and during that time my Father could have purchased it from me, instead of purchasing their own council house, if they really wanted to it 'back' as they keep saying. Yes market value in need of work and all above board.

Although a lot of things have passed – including home improvements, tenancies et cetera, from the story you have told us, neither your parents nor your uncle have been involved in this at all.

My Uncle has also sadly passed away.

 

I obtained additional borrowing to fund the work needed in 2008 (not mentioned in letter obviously) and have found some receipts, emails and mortgage letter to back this up, but in the letter my parents claim they paid for all this and carried out the work as I ‘had little interest in the property’ also all correspondence from letting agent is to me, but in letter claims by Father did all these and ‘I merely singed the tenancy’ which is rubbish.

 

One weird thing, the garden shed is still full of my Grandad's tools and my parents have the only key to this, have visited it randomly and instructed a builder person we both know over the years to trim the hedges. This was always been behind my back and have asked them to let me know or I can do it. I spoke to him yesterday and they have always paid him cash, so no paper trail.

 

Now you have received a letter from your parents saying that the house is really theirs and that you have simply been holding it on trust for them and they now want it back.

Is this a reasonable summary of what has happened?

 

Yes, although the ‘trust’ that is mentioned is literally something they have made up, assumed or otherwise. There is absolutely nothing to my knowledge of this kind in place.

 

Although you have written a fair bit about bills, tenancies, and that you have lived in your parents home for some of this 20 years, I'm not sure what relevance that has to the problem. I have to say that your explanation is very unclear. A bit rambling in fact. If you think that part of the story is relevant then maybe you'd like to express it all a little more clearly and say in what way you think it is relevant to the problem.

 

Reason being it is referred to in the letter and quite representative of the whole letter, rambling. My point was it is not true and I am the one who has paid for these. It’s almost like they are trying to paint me as someone collecting the rent money whilst the did all the hard work and paid for things.

You are much more familiar with the story then I am but I don't see that those factors are terribly important on the brief understanding that I have. if if any money is owed to your parents because of you having lived with them et cetera then it seems to me that that is a separate matter and has nothing to do with your ownership of the property.

 

Agreed

You say that you have received a letter from solicitors claiming first of all that there is a constructive trust or that you might be subject to a proprietary estoppel.
In terms of the estoppel, that doctrine is only available in very particular circumstances and could not be used to attack you in any event. Estoppel, whether it is proprietary or promissory can only be used as a defence. So the question of estoppel in this situation is completely irrelevant, in my view, although I don't see any basis for one in any event.

 

Lets hope so

So what remains is the possibility of a constructive trust.

It seems to me to be highly unlikely that there is such a trust and I think that the first question needs to be asked is on what basis they consider that there is a constructive trust. Secondly, of course, even if there was a constructive trust, on the basis of what you have told us, it wouldn't only be your mother who was the beneficiary, it would also be your uncle. Furthermore, if you were a constructive trustee then at the very least you would be entitled to recover all of the expenses that you had laid out over 30 years – including the cost of the property plus interest – less any financial benefit that you had accrued from renting it out and so forth.

 

Good point about me being a trustee, if, such a thing were in place. I had a google of the meaning and I honestly don’t feel it meets any of the criteria.

I'm not sure how good this analysis is. This is well out of my experience – but I would suggest that you consider it and see whether any of it rings true. I would also start making a very detailed account of all the money which you have spent over the years on the property and also a detailed account of all the benefits you have accrued from it. I wouldn't supply this to their solicitor but if you end up having to instruct your own lawyer then I'm sure that you may be asked for this if there is any suspicion that a constructive trust may exist.

Frankly it sounds like a load of rubbish to me but we will be very interested if you will keep us up to date.

So there you have it. No particular answers. Just a few unsupported and unqualified opinions  

 

I do really appreciate your time and effort on this. Yes, when I read it all again, rubbish does spring to mind.

 

My parents have been very challenging to say the least and have no idea of the consequence of their actions. To be honest, they have almost shot themselves in the foot as there is so much detail in the letter, lots of which is untrue and I can prove this. If it ever got to court and I really hope it doesn’t, I can only think this would go against them.

 

I really do think the solicitor (who is the same one that rinsed them ££££ over the will) is just charging them for this letter, which may have been a good few hours with the unneeded detail, knowing fully well this wont go anywhere!

 

Another thing the letter requests that I confirm I wont sell, rent out or re-mortgage the property!!! I have literally just started a new mortgage and need tenants to pay the rent, I don't think this request hold any water at all?

 

I hope this does come to nothing and hopefully helps others along the way!

Edited November 22, 2019 by NGEddie

[BankFodder]

 

Quote

 

Here is me filling in the gaps!

 

There was a dispute over a will in respect of your grandfather's house but the dispute was eventually abandoned and it seems that the house was apportioned to your mother and her brother who presumably were the only two children. The will was unsigned and so we could say that the house passed to the two of them under the rules of intestacy.

 

Not abandoned, it went to court and the court decided it should be sold and the £ divided between my Mother and my Uncle who were the only two children. So maybe they did own it whilst on the market?
This indicates that the court refused to recognise the will because it was not properly executed and therefore the house was disposed of under the rules on intestacy – in equal parts to your mother and her brother. No surprises here

You then decided to buy the house for £50,000 and presumably the money you paid was divided between your mother and your uncle – who were the owners of the house.

 

Correct, it went on the market, a few people viewed it, my parents were awkward towards these potential buyers and then I made the offer to the estate agent and purchased it.

This is very helpful to you. It means that the sale was open, conducted by an independent agent. Other people were involved in the competition. You made an offer not directly to your parents but to the agent so I suppose that the agent receive their commission. There is no suggestion that there was some private deal between yourself and your parents.
All of this militates against the idea that there might have been a trust at this point.
Frankly in my view, the story ends here.

This was in 1999.

We talking about 20 years ago here and so in respect of most legal questions I would have thought that some limitation period applied. (However the issue of the trust has been raised – and this wouldn't be affected by limitation)

However, presumably the house was bought at a proper value given the market at the time and any work that it needed doing. Presumably the house was properly conveyed.

 

Exactly, 20 years is ridiculous, and during that time my Father could have purchased it from me, instead of purchasing their own council house, if they really wanted to it 'back' as they keep saying. Yes market value in need of work and all above board.

Although a lot of things have passed – including home improvements, tenancies et cetera, from the story you have told us, neither your parents nor your uncle have been involved in this at all.

My Uncle has also sadly passed away.

 

I obtained additional borrowing to fund the work needed in 2008 (not mentioned in letter obviously) and have found some receipts, emails and mortgage letter to back this up, but in the letter my parents claim they paid for all this and carried out the work as I ‘had little interest in the property’ also all correspondence from letting agent is to me, but in letter claims by Father did all these and ‘I merely singed the tenancy’ which is rubbish.

I think you should invite them to provide evidence of all of the funding which they claimed to have made. Do this in writing. Do immediately – but make sure that your letter says that in any event you deny that there has been any kind of trust or that your parents have any claim on the property whatsoever

 

One weird thing, the garden shed is still full of my Grandad's tools and my parents have the only key to this, have visited it randomly and instructed a builder person we both know over the years to trim the hedges. This was always been behind my back and have asked them to let me know or I can do it. I spoke to him yesterday and they have always paid him cash, so no paper trail.
You should prevent this happening. You should have prevented it some time ago and you should now make it clear to them in writing – in a separate letter that they are no longer authorised to enter the property or to ask anybody else to enter the property and if they do so it will be considered to be a trespass.

 

Now you have received a letter from your parents saying that the house is really theirs and that you have simply been holding it on trust for them and they now want it back.

Is this a reasonable summary of what has happened?

 

Yes, although the ‘trust’ that is mentioned is literally something they have made up, assumed or otherwise. There is absolutely nothing to my knowledge of this kind in place.

 

Although you have written a fair bit about bills, tenancies, and that you have lived in your parents home for some of this 20 years, I'm not sure what relevance that has to the problem. I have to say that your explanation is very unclear. A bit rambling in fact. If you think that part of the story is relevant then maybe you'd like to express it all a little more clearly and say in what way you think it is relevant to the problem.

 

Reason being it is referred to in the letter and quite representative of the whole letter, rambling. My point was it is not true and I am the one who has paid for these. It’s almost like they are trying to paint me as someone collecting the rent money whilst the did all the hard work and paid for things.

You are much more familiar with the story then I am but I don't see that those factors are terribly important on the brief understanding that I have. if if any money is owed to your parents because of you having lived with them et cetera then it seems to me that that is a separate matter and has nothing to do with your ownership of the property.

 

Agreed

You say that you have received a letter from solicitors claiming first of all that there is a constructive trust or that you might be subject to a proprietary estoppel.
In terms of the estoppel, that doctrine is only available in very particular circumstances and could not be used to attack you in any event. Estoppel, whether it is proprietary or promissory can only be used as a defence. So the question of estoppel in this situation is completely irrelevant, in my view, although I don't see any basis for one in any event.

 

Lets hope so

So what remains is the possibility of a constructive trust.

It seems to me to be highly unlikely that there is such a trust and I think that the first question needs to be asked is on what basis they consider that there is a constructive trust. Secondly, of course, even if there was a constructive trust, on the basis of what you have told us, it wouldn't only be your mother who was the beneficiary, it would also be your uncle. Furthermore, if you were a constructive trustee then at the very least you would be entitled to recover all of the expenses that you had laid out over 30 years – including the cost of the property plus interest – less any financial benefit that you had accrued from renting it out and so forth.

 

Good point about me being a trustee, if, such a thing were in place. I had a google of the meaning and I honestly don’t feel it meets any of the criteria.

I'm not sure how good this analysis is. This is well out of my experience – but I would suggest that you consider it and see whether any of it rings true. I would also start making a very detailed account of all the money which you have spent over the years on the property and also a detailed account of all the benefits you have accrued from it. I wouldn't supply this to their solicitor but if you end up having to instruct your own lawyer then I'm sure that you may be asked for this if there is any suspicion that a constructive trust may exist.

Frankly it sounds like a load of rubbish to me but we will be very interested if you will keep us up to date.

So there you have it. No particular answers. Just a few unsupported and unqualified opinions  

 

I do really appreciate your time and effort on this. Yes, when I read it all again, rubbish does spring to mind.

 

My parents have been very challenging to say the least and have no idea of the consequence of their actions. To be honest, they have almost shot themselves in the foot as there is so much detail in the letter, lots of which is untrue and I can prove this. If it ever got to court and I really hope it doesn’t, I can only think this would go against them.

 

I really do think the solicitor (who is the same one that rinsed them ££££ over the will) is just charging them for this letter, which may have been a good few hours with the unneeded detail, knowing fully well this wont go anywhere!

 

I hope this does come to nothing and hopefully helps others along the way!

 

 

 

 

I suggest that you follow the suggestions I have made here in red and also the earlier suggestions I made in respect of compiling a detailed account of expenses to which you have been put, losses they have suffered and any benefits that you might have received from your parents.

Also, if they happen to start a legal action against you then clearly you should defend. Their chances of succeeding are extremely remote, in my view, but I think that you would need a solicitor. I would instruct a solicitor to ask the court in the directions questionnaire to make an order that your parents provide security for costs because you could find that they will end up spending a lot of their money and your money on a fruitless exercise and you will have difficulty recovering any of your costs in the most likely event that you finally win the case.

This is not my area of experience at all, but I'm extremely surprised that they have found a solicitor who has been prepared to advise them that they stand some chance of success and therefore it is reasonable for them to incur fees by getting that solicitor to write you these letters.

[NGEddie]

Thank you

 

I am wracking my brains which estate agent and solicitor I used now!

 

Is there any database or such where this can be accessed?

 

The property is on rightmove sold £££ list but doesnt say much other than the date.

[Ethel Street]

People usually sell through estate agents near to where the property is located so try searching for 'estate agents near [postcode]' and go through the results to see if one jogs your memory. Likewise for solicitors.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Ethel Street

[BankFodder]

On the matter of the shed, I would move to have the lock replaced immediately. Inventory the contents of the shed, take photographs of their condition and then do what you can to deliver the contents of the shed to your parents. If you continue to keep their property – or at least property to which they are asserting title – on your land then this can only help them and be an encumbrance to you.

Ideally you would instruct them to come along and collect it – but the easiest thing to do is simply to put it all into the back of the car or van or something and then to deliver it to your parents. Warn them that it is going to arrive and make sure it all arrives in good condition at a time when you know they are going to be in. Once it is taken to their property, photograph it again and inventory it again so that there are no queries later on. It will be a good idea if you have somebody with you to witness what goes on.

If your parents have keys to anything else on your property such as the front door or a back garden door in order to access the shed, you should change those locks immediately and write your parents and tell them that the locks are now been changed, that their own keys will no longer fit and that they are not authorised to enter onto your property in any circumstances. However, I suggest that you deal with the contents of the shed first so that there are no suggestions that you are trying to hang on to some property which I suppose is of no interest to you

 

[NGEddie]

Thank you to all for the comments and observations.

 

This is an extremely difficult situation as I go to my parents home twice a day and since advising them I now have the letter, I really don’t think they have a clue of the implications of their letter. On speaking to my Fathers Brother he even described my Mothers behaviour previously as psychotic which really fits the bill. Over the years I think they have morphed into one.

 

I have scanned the six pages and deleted all personal details for anyone who wants to read this. It is saved as 6 separate PNG files. Is this the best way to upload it?

 

Cheers

 

E!

[BankFodder]

No. Please will you upload any documents in a single file multipage PDF format. This means scanned them to PDF – multifile – and OCR them

[NGEddie]

Hopefully this works!

 

There are so many lies in this, it is almost laughable!

 

My Mother actually said she doesn't want to go to court and the solicitor said they needed to send the letter to clear the muddy water?!

 

Cheers

 

E!

Letter in PDF.pdf

[BankFodder]

Well this letter certainly paints a slightly different picture.

I think we probably given you the advice that we can. If you dispute the contents then I suggest that you write to the solicitor and tell them that you disagree with the account which has been given by your parents. You deny that there was any trust at all. If your parents feel that you owe them any money then they should set that out as a completely separate matter giving details, a full account and the basis upon which they believe it is owed to them.

However if they want to continue with their version then they will have to assert it in a court of law and of course you will be defending the matter. You do not believe that your parents have any evidence to support their assertions and in view of the value of the claim and of your parents poor financial condition you hope that they will be fully informed as to their risk of costs in the most likely event that they lose – and that in any event, you will be asking the court to make an order for security for costs as a condition of allowing them to proceed with the claim.

That's my suggestion to you. After this I think you will need to go get some professional legal help. Don't expect it to be cheap

[NGEddie]

Yes indeed, probably because the majority of the contents is lies.

 

It is really upsetting to read how either my parents or solicitor are hoping to blacken my character with this letter.

 

The crazy part is I go to my parents home twice a day to drop off and pick up my dog, who they started calling a 'family dog' when I moved out. They are acting like this isn't anything bad they have done! My Mother claims the solicitor said the letter had to be sent to 'clear the muddy water' when I asked why on earth this has been sent. A solicitor at my church read it and estimated at her company it would be £1-2k for the amount of detail in the letter. When I said to my Mother about the £££ this is all going to waste she said the letter was 'about £150.00 or so' which I find hard to believe!

 

My comments in relation to the letter.

 

4. As far as I recall the hand written will was found whilst going through the paperwork post January 1993 and not as the letter reads.

 

6. This went to court, started by my Uncle which dragged out for a long time and cost a lot of £££. I dont believe everyone accepted there was 'clear evidence' otherwise it wouldn't have gone to court in the first place.

 

7. There was interest, but parents were obstructive, not turning up for viewings etc... to discourage other people so I would be the only offer.

 

8. I am 99.9% sure it was purchased from the estate agent.

 

9. No such agreement was ever made for any of these points.

 

10. i and ii as above.

c. In 2008 I obtained additional borrowing to fund all the refurbishment work needed and have the letter to back this up.

d. The property was exempt from ctax and I paid the other utilities.

e. Pure lies

f. Rubbish, all correspondence and emails from letting agents were with me.

 

11. I did buy another property, where I now live but didnt ask their permission. If they were thinking it was theirs back then, why did they 'allow it' as such.

 

12. My Father guided and assisted with the refurb, as any parent would, but I paid for it all.

 

14. I spoke them about this in a 'what do you think?' kind of way as a child would often seek the opinion of a parent. I certainly did not request their permission.

 

15. I did write something out, as they were not listening to me, trying to make then understand it wasnt really an option or suitable anyway. To try and help restore the relationship i did say morally it felt like my Mothers and is good to keep it in the family as such. The document they have does not look familiar and seems to have very specific other bits added. I did not say it was my 'debt' which is a phrase they have always used when arguing about this.

 

16. As the relationship has deteriorated over time I have to tell them less as, especially my Mother, seem to change and quote things back to me months or years afterwards.

 

17. I was abroad and had a phone call from the letting agent saying 'a very angry couple keep coming into the office, making a scene, claiming it is there house and demanding we stop advertising it' then when in the UK i had to go into the office and show them all my documentation as the owner.

 

18. In an argument I had said why would I 'sign it over' to them and that these things dont work like that anyway as there are tax implications.

 

19. I gave my own key to the new tenants when they moved in as they needed four sets. I needed to get in too finish some bits and my Father who had a spare refused to give me his so has embellished the truth here.

 

20. I have no idea how they know I changed the mortgage company and the exact date?

 

The following is just a summary of what quite frankly is a pack of lies!

 

I am thinking if to write to solicitor myself and ask them to provide evidence to support their claims? Is it not more a case they need to prove things rather than I need to disprove things?

 

This really is a horrible situation, especially this time of year!

 

Many thanks for any further advice.

 

E!

[FTMDave]

39 minutes ago, NGEddie said:

17. I was abroad and had a phone call from the letting agent saying 'a very angry couple keep coming into the office, making a scene, claiming it is there house and demanding we stop advertising it' then when in the UK i had to go into the office and show them all my documentation as the owner.

 

Having had quite a toxic relationship with my own parents, I was dreading you writing something like this.  There is nothing worse than being in legal dispute with people who have just decided they're right even though the law shows they're wrong, and couples are the worst with the nonsensical "my partner also says I'm right so I must be right".

 

What sort of people are your parents?  The sort that are comfortable with court action?  Or the type who would wet themselves at the thought of court?  I find as well as the legal rights or wrongs it pays to think through what people will actually do in the end.  The worst sort are the nutters who will start court action even though they're in the wrong legally and end up wasting their own time & money, as well as the other party's. 

 

Personally i would break off all contact with them (surely another way can be found to care for the dog) to show the enormity of what they have done, threatening to sue their own son and nick his house.  But hey, they're your parents.

[NGEddie]

Do you know, reading this actually gives me some kind of comfort, as in knowing I am not the only one to have this situation with a toxic parent relationship, so thank you.

 

Yes, as I probably said, my Fathers own Brother referred to my Mothers behaviour as ‘often psychotic’ and this is related to years ago. Since then I think they have become more odd together.

 

The whole reason I joined this site many years back was to help sort my Fathers finances. He became too I’ll to work, just got a new kitchen, Hitachi finance, couldn’t pay, defaulted, they were pushing for a CO on their home (I was living there at the time) and I manged to sort it with the help of the good people on here.

I then sorted out countless loans and re-loans all having PPi on and got my Dad thousands for this, enough to clear their mortgage in fact.

Then there was Renston’s who bought the debt from Lloyds and bombarded them with letters until I sorted that too.

 

During this time, my Mother always got in a state about the letters, often saying to just pay them and stop it all etc… and when she had the court battle with her Brother in around 1997-1999 she was a wreck, going to the doctors, crying all the time etc…

 

My parents are very obsessive though. For example the council reduced street lighting including the one outside their home. I had to email appeal letters for them. The answer was always that it was a final decision, with the standard ‘but if you want to appeal’ at the bottom of the letter. After about seven I just had to say I am not sending these for them anymore and they kinda gave up.

 

The crazy part is, as soon as I started talking to them about this letter my Mother is in tears withing seconds almost saying she doesn’t want to go to court but they needed advice! Advice is one thing, the letter totally different! Unless the solicitor thinks vulnerable and is just playing them whilst raking in the ££££?

 

I then said to them, lets just say you did have the house singed over to you, what would you actually do with it? my Father said ‘well, we would think about it at the time’ WTAF?! They are 70 and 71, not being horrible but if someone gave them £100K, they would still be at home 24/7 watching Midsomer Murders and living off takeaways. As I kid we only had one holiday when I was about 8/9ish? It wasn’t because they couldn’t afford it, but because they just don’t do anything, literally!

 

In a nutshell:

The worst sort are the nutters who will start court action even though they're in the wrong legally and end up wasting their own time & money, as well as the other party's. 

This is them!

 

This is yet another hold they have on me. I got my dog when living there as a puppy so he is used to being around them all day when I am at work from when I first moved and things weren’t so strained. If I had him and left him alone all day at my house it is very likely he would get separation anxiety and feel it isn’t fair on him. I actually said to them if this went to court that there is no way I would be there at Christmas and my dog would be with me and they started shouting how that is totally separate to this house thing…deluded!

 

The thing that concerns me is how does a court or judge, if it ever got that far, react when there are two people lying against one who is it not? The only redeeming factor is I have ‘some’ things to prove a lot of there are claims are completely fantasy!

[FTMDave]

Really sorry to hear what you're going through.  I never had financial disputes with my parents, but I did have to deal with my mother who had mental health issues and my coward of a father who never got her treatment, pretended it wasn't happening or made excuses for her - all with horrific consequences in their later life.  But I digress ...

 

Point taken about your dog.  Dogs of course are pack animals and shouldn't be left alone all day, especially when he's been used to human company all his life.  He would suffer if he was suddenly left on his own for hours on end.

 

"The thing that concerns me is how does a court or judge, if it ever got that far, react when there are two people lying against one who is it not? The only redeeming factor is I have ‘some’ things to prove a lot of there are claims are completely fantasy!"

 

I think this is what could save you!  Before shelving out a lot of money for a solicitor - and if the regulars agree - as a half-way house I would be tempted to reply to the solicitor, demolishing a couple of points that are obvious lies and enclosing back statements, etc. as proof.

 

Don't try to reply to every point (as Ethel Street & BankFodder say, you would need proper legal advice for the more complicated points) and don't refer to anything which could, even in a little way, help their case (such as points 12, 14 & 15).

 

An honest solicitor would at that point tell their clients that a case based on lies would quickly fall apart in court.  Someone thinking rationally would understand that.  Of course if your parents are irrational and the solicitor is dishonest my suggestion won't get very far.  Still, it's only a 70p stamp.  If you do decide to go down this road please post up a draft of what you intend to write.

 

The last time I was in court (which was a criminal matter, in Italy, but the principle still stands) I saw the judge being extremely interested in the circumstances of Person A staying in Person B's house.  My friends & I stated it was a tenancy.  The landlord lied and said the person staying was just a guest.  The judge asked a friend of mine if he had proof of the tenancy and he said he had copies of letters from his ex-landlord asking him to pay half of various bills, which he had made copies of for the judge/prosecution/defence.  The judge didn't even want to see the letters.  He was satisfied.  The landlord was a liar.  And got a criminal conviction.  Lie in court to judges and bad things will happen to you.

[NGEddie]

Hi all

 

I thought I should update.

 

Having spoken to a solicitor and now aware of the £ of even going along the mediation route, I have spoken to my parents about sorting something between us.

 

I asked them to advise their solicitor, but the solicitor said I need to write to them to advise what I or we are doing now? Is this right?!

 

I thought if my parents just told them it would be ok.

 

The other thing is, there is always the chance my parents wouldn’t say anything and the 28 days could come and go, so probably best I do reply, just not sure what to say!

 

Cheers

 

E!

[BankFodder]

I would suggest that the best thing to do is to have a face-to-face conversation with your parents and try to come to an agreement on the various points. then agree with your parents that you will confirm in writing and if possible write it out in front of them with their agreement and get them to to sign it there and then.