Need Statutory Declaration for unknown speeding/failure to ID driver **RESOLVED RESET TO SPEEDING**

[JenRuss]

Hello,

please could I have some advice ahead of my appearance at the Magistrates court on Wednesday.

I have requested a Statutory Declaration because I haven’t received any of the mail regarding a speeding offence committed in February.

 

The first I became aware of the offence and court proceedings was yesterday when an ex neighbour and friend called to say that bailiffs had turned up demanding £1100 (court fine of £811 + enforcement fees).

 

 I thought it was a misunderstanding as I had sent my VR form back with our new address when we moved but when I checked the DVLA website I was horrified to see it still has my old address. I have updated and paid the £20 fee now.

 

I have also looked for my V5 registration form and I have not had it returned so presumably they didn’t receive it or it has been lost. Is it my fault for not chasing this - I moved 3 years ago but have a toddler and a baby so I didn’t think about it once I’d sent it. I am also suffering from depression and really struggling at the moment.  

 

I am so upset that this has escalated to this point. I’m a law teacher and I am very diligent and careful. I have never been in debt and this has come as a huge shock.

 

The Magistrates have been helpful and given me a court date for a Statutory Declaration and the bailiffs have been informed not to proceed yet.  I want to see whether I am doing the right thing having this hearing or whether I should pay the fine in full? (this would be financially devastating before Christmas but we could manage if we borrow from family too).

 

My intention is to attend court and to plead guilty to the original speeding offence but I want to know whether given the circumstances and lack of knowledge of the request for driver info ...can I plead not guilty to that offence? As this is the one which carries the hefty fine and a conviction. I am worried that they won’t believe that I tried to change my address and fine me for that offence as well which could double the fine I have now.

 

I am happy to accept the speeding conviction and the points I just don’t think it’s fair that I should receive the conviction and fine for not responding to letters I didn’t receive.

 

Thank you in advance for your consideration and assistance Jen

 

ps. I have photo messages from the lady who lives in my old address corroborating that I haven’t received the mail from my old address. 

[dx100uk]

dvla are well known for losing mail.

but 3yrs...to find out they didn't is p'haps pushing it...

 

but the fact that nothing was sent to your old address may well help you here.

ie the NiP etc might reset things back to square one.

 

hopefully the experts will be alone soon.

 

 

[JenRuss]

Thank you. I guess I haven’t had cause time be concerned as I haven’t had to produce my licence for anything.  My tax is renewed by the DVLA via email and I get a reminder by email so I haven’t thought about the new address. I honestly thought I’d informed them and that was that. Thanks for commenting and the support! 

[Peterbard]

Firstly, you say that the Bailiff told your next door neighbour how much you owe??

This is a blatant breach of the regulations re enforcement and the information protection rules, you may wish this to be looked into when all this is sorted. but first thing first.

 

The initial part of your hearing will be to decide whether the court excepts your story about not knowing about the missed hearing, if they do accept it, the next stage will be the hearing regarding the offence itself. In particular whether you were owner of the car or not .

 

For the first part, you need to show evidence that you were not at that address when the summons was issued, this you should be able to do with a rates bill or any official dated correspondence etc. Addressed to the applicable premises.(your house at the time)

Personally, I would think they would accept your claim about not receiving the paperwork, but that's just my opinion based on what you said.

 

If they do they may immediately start the second hearing, or if it involves a lot of evidence, they may ask you to come back and give you another date.

In either case you need to be prepared with your evidence. They will ask how you plead. If I were you I would plead not guilty as, you say you did not drive the vehicle nor where you the owner at that time., but mention your concerns about none delivery of your documents and seek the clerks advice.

On hearing the full facts I doubt the judge will let you plead guilty anyway. Unless you are very insistent.

 

Your evidence here would be a bill of sale dated or a record of cash flow in bank statements etc.

 

Good Luck and dont worry it is not as bad as it sounds, no one is going to prison or anything, and if you do get a fine you just ask for time to pay. Worse scenario.

 

Peter

[dx100uk]

not sure there is any issue with selling the vehicle or not being the owner/driver here at the time

simply dvla did not receive v5c change of address?

 

 

[JenRuss]

Yes I was the owner and driver when I committed the speeding offence (although haven’t seen the evidence yet as have no correspondence relating to the offence).

 

It’s more an issue of the DVLA not being informed of my new address - I tried but it looks like they didn’t receive it. I’m worried I could be prosecuted for not updating my address which I think may carry 6 points and a hefty fine if I am found guilty.

 

I want to clear my name for the offence of not identifying the driver but don’t want to make matters worse for myself and my family.?

[dx100uk]

outside of 6mths they cant

 

 

[Peterbard]

No sadly, that doesn't apply here, unfortunately, unless you are willing to testify that the didn't send the summon .

 

I was under the impression you were not at the address when court papers were filed and therefore were not responsible for not attending, isn't that what you inferred in post one?

 

So in this case, unless you have any other reasons for not knowing, I would plead guilty, because, it seems you are.

If you do, you should get a discount on your fine. Perhaps the driver will re-imburse you the rest.

 

The courts, contrary to uninformed opinion do not just accept out of time statements.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Dodgeball

[Peterbard]

If the offence has been"laid to the court", within six months, so they can. I presume this was, as there is talk of missing the hearing. This is section 127.Maj ct,

 

In magistrates court and on summary charges, the period ends when the complaint is layed by the DVLA.

 

AlthougIt is I suppose it is worth a try.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Dodgeball
more info

[JenRuss]

Sorry I’m confused

- I am pleading guilty to the speeding offence

- not trying to defend that.

 

I would like to plead not guilty to the offence of not supplying details of the driver as I would have responded had I received the letters from the police/court but as they were sent to my old address I had/have no knowledge of them. 
 

My anxiety lies in the fact although they will believe I had no knowledge of these letters as I have proof of new address etc I am concerned I may be prosecuted for the offence of not supplying my new address to the DVLA which I tried but clearly failed to do. Does anyone know if this is a possibility? 
 

 From other threads I have consulted it seems the prosecution may make a deal and accept guilty for the speeding offence and scrap the identity offence?! This is my best case scenario.

 

My worst is that I am guilty of both and I have a new offence attached

- that of failing to form the DVLA and registering my car to my new address. 

[Peterbard]

Your not the only one. Are you now saying that you did not live in your old house when the offence was committed?

 

If true then my first advice applies.

 

They are only looking at the ticket offence.

To be clear

The only sanction you need worry about is for that offence. You will get the fine which rightfully belongs to the actual driver, because you will not or cannot disclose their name. I really would not worry about anything else.

[JenRuss]

Thank you Dodgeball.

To clarify I have lived in my current address for over 2 years.

The offence was committed in Feb 19 and all correspondence went to my old address so I was unaware of it.

 

I received a fine in my absence for not supplying drivers details, had I received the original notification of the offence I would have pleaded guilty and taken the penalty. 

[dx100uk]

22 minutes ago, Dodgeball said:

If the offence has been"laid to the court", within six months, so they can. I presume this was, as there is talk of missing the hearing. This is section 127.Maj ct,

 

In magistrates court and on summary charges, the period ends when the complaint is layed by the DVLA.

 

AlthougIt is I suppose it is worth a try.

that was in ref to the DVLA wanting to fine the op for not updating v5c because they lost it

AFAIK they have 6mts, they haven't done so that I can see.

so the op has no worry upon that front atleast

 

dx

 

[Peterbard]

WE obviously have interpreted the OPs situation differently.

 

She said that she had sent a Stat dec. I assume she means under section 14, which seeks relief from missing theinital hearing . Now If that case was within six months of the incident, it is not SB( actually it is not SB anyway, as the Barr is not due to the statute of limitations, but section 127).

But this action is ongoing from that. The "SB" only refers to the start of proceedings.

They say that they were unable to locate in order to continue, this cannot be a SB period.

 

SB can only refer to a situation where they could commence proceedings but couldn't be bothered.

[dx100uk]

there are two issues here the op is concerned about..

1.the title of the thread ...a speeding fine.

2,the fact that the dvla lost her v5c change of address.

 

the v5c issue is outside of 6mts..the dvla cant prosecute her. so relieves her of that worry.

 

the speeding fine - whereby you've given excellent advice upon how to deal which is outside of my knowledge...not my strong point

 

hth

 

dx

 

[Peterbard]

 

As far as the time limit is concerned, that applied to the original  case heard in absentia, hence the bailiff calling,

This is about an application to reopen he case on request of the defendant under section 14 via 142 of the MCA,. Sihe has no SB relation to her action. She can apply at ant time.

 

The original response of mine applies.

[Manxman in exile]

This seems to have wandered off topic a bit...

 

OP - AIUI you are doing a Stat Dec under oath on Wednesday?  So long as you are doing this within 21 days of learning of the conviction(s), my understanding is that the court has to accept it.  If it's outside 21 days they have discretion to accept it.  This in effect negates the conviction(s). 

 

You will probably then be asked how you plead to the original charges.  AIUI the usual advice is to plead not guilty to both offences (assuming you have been dual charged with speeding and failing to identify the driver) and your case will then be adjourned to a later date.  (They can hardly do otherwise as they've already accepted your stat dec and you don't know anything about the evidence against you etc).

 

On the day of the trial you approach the prosecutor dealing with traffic offences and you do a "plea bargain" - you offer to plead guilty to the speeding offence if (and only if) they agree to drop the failure to identify charge.  This is because the failure to identify is a much more serious charge that you don't want a conviction for, and because they cant convict you of the speeding charge because you haven't identified the driver.  (It is also notoriously difficult to defend successfully* a failure to identify charge). My understanding is that this strategy nearly always works.

 

If I've got any of this wrong I'm sure others will correct me.  See what other responses you get.

 

*  Your notification of change of address to DVLA presumably got lost and you never followed it up.  Police will be able to prove that the documents were sent out first class and they will be presumed delivered to you two days later.  Sent to the wrong address - yes - but that will be argued to be your fault.

 

EDIT:  An added complication might be that you can only legitimately plead guilty to the speeding if you actually were the driver.  If you teach law I'm sure you can appreciate that to plead guilty to an offence you can't have committed could have serious repercussions.  But AIUI, the prosecutor is usually happy to accept the bargain.

 

23 hours ago, Dodgeball said:

 

As far as the time limit is concerned, that applied to the original  case heard in absentia, hence the bailiff calling,

This is about an application to reopen he case on request of the defendant under section 14 via 142 of the MCA,. Sihe has no SB relation to her action. She can apply at ant time.

 

The original response of mine applies.

 

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure how your original response addresses the OP's question?

Edited November 16, 2019 by Manxman in exile
warning

[Man in the middle]

Quote

The initial part of your hearing will be to decide whether the court excepts your story about not knowing about the missed hearing, if they do accept it, the next stage will be the hearing regarding the offence itself. In particular whether you were owner of the car or not .

 

No it won’t and this seems to have become unnecessarily complex.

 

The purpose of the SD (in your case) is to declare that you knew nothing of the proceedings against you which led to your conviction and fine. The court has nothing to question you about. In fact, the SD does not have to be made in court at all. It can be made before a solicitor or Commissioner for Oaths (who may charge a small fee of perhaps £5-£10)..If it is you then forward it to the convicting court for the conviction to be set aside.

 

On Wednesday there will be no obligation for you to prove anything to the court (though you should be aware of the penalties for perjury which may be applicable if you make a false declaration). The court must accept your declaration if it is made within 21 days of finding out about the conviction and it may, do so, subject to its discretion, fter that date.

 

If the only reason the SD could not be made in time was that the court could not provide an earlier appointment, the Declaration will be accepted. That is the only time limit on any of this. All other time limits are irrelevant. Acceptance of the SD depends only on how long previously you learned of your conviction and nothing else.

 

Once the SD has been made, if you make it in court it is standard practice in most areas now is for you to be asked how to plead to the original offences immediately afterwards. If so, you should offer to plead guilty to the speeding offence only on the condition that the “Fail to Supply Driver’s Details” (FtS) is dropped.

 

Under no circumstances should you plead guilty to speeding without this assurance.

They have no evidence that you were driving and you cannot be convicted of that offence unless you plead guilty.

Doing so is a possible route to nine points.

 

The prosecutor may not be in a position to accept this “deal” (though it is perfectly standard practice and is performed every day across the country). If he is not you should plead Not Guilty to both charges.

 

The matter will then not be progressed further on that day and instead it will be set down for trial at a later date.

If that happens, let us know and I will tell you how to deal with the matter on your trial day.

[Manxman in exile]

Thanks for explaining that more comprehensively than I did.

[JenRuss]

Thank you Man in the Middle and ManXman for your comments and advice.

 

I think I am clearly now and I’m just praying that I get offered the “deal” (drop the failure to provide driver charge) as the last think I want is a trial.

 

Emotionally I couldn’t deal with the stress at the moment.

 

Thanks Jen 

[dx100uk]

 

[AndyOrch]

The OP has the correct advice......lets not turn this into a discussion thread as per usual Dodgeball.

 

Posts unapproved and thread tidied.

 

Andy

[JenRuss]

I will let you all know how I get on when I do a Stat Dec on wednesday morning.

I am hopeful that they will accept that I knew nothing of the earlier proceedings and original request for driver details - as this is the truth and should I need evidence I have got that.
 

My hope is that I will be asked to plead for the speeding offence and I will agree to plead guilty if the failure to provide details of driver offence is dropped.

 

However if this doesn’t happen, will I still have to answer to the charge of non disclosure of driver details? 

If I do have to answer to this charge I would plead not guilty -as I haven’t received the correspondence.

 

I just wonder what are the chances of the Magistrates deciding this requires a trial and accepting that I tried to update my new address details? Or is this very unlikely to occur?

 

I obviously don’t want another 6 points and a fine of £1k as I’d be worse off than if I’d paid the bailiffs!  

 

Can anyone shed any light on how likely I am to be charged with the offence of not updating my records or would this be something the DVLA would have to start?

 

I have since updated online so I think they are unlikely to initiate proceedings.  

[dx100uk]

a discussion thread containing many earlier posts is now open here

 

dx

[dx100uk]

the dvla cant do anything its outside of 6mts

already said this atleast twice now.