backdoor UKCPM/gladstones windscreen PCN CCJ

[BankFodder 1,539]

First of all it's nonsense that they don't have a copy of the claim form. Are you really expected to believe that they have sent out the only copy that they have?

Secondly, we now getting into the realm of Chinese whispers and I'm sorry to say that your story is now becoming inconsistent and this is why we absolutely want to see the claim form in PDF format and not a version which has been typed onto the forum.

[ericsbrother 3,432]

Gladstones will have filed online using a template form so they are being crafy when they say they dont have a copy of the form because that is true but they have a copy of the template form with all your information inputted to it.

 

tell them that you wish to get a copy of this as an SAR under the GDPR

[Dodiqq 1]

X_ b01. CLAIM RESPONSE - blank claim forms wi....pdf

 

All I managed to get from them now is the standard blank MoneyClaimOnline Pack template as ericsbrother mentions.

 

[Andyorch 10,190]

CC told me they don't have a copy of the claim because it got sent out and that's it, they do not have a copy on file.

And that I was given claim particulars (text) and I don't need the claim form to submit a n244 

 

Correct MCOL do not retain hard copy of the actual N1...just the text particulars of claim/Claim number/Amounts/Claimants details...there is nothing further on the N1 required.

.

The other 2 people also said I do not need the original claim form to submit n244 

 

I would have to agree...as long as you have the particulars of claim text.....the date ...claim number.....the amounts and the claimants name....should suffice.

 

Andy

[ericsbrother 3,432]

the court can email you the content of the claim that Gladstones submitted as a text.

the important thing will be the address it was served on and the particulars of the claim- the bit that says why you owe the money. that is important because getting a set aside might be harder if you just intend to pay up anyway so you need to show whay you disagree with the debt. thier clains are so generic they are actually quite easy to pull apart

[Dodiqq 1]

Hi again.

I have not called Gladstones because apparently their 5.15pm closing time is SouthEast England 4.15pm so at 4.30pm all lines were closed regardless of me calling 3x today I think they ignore my phone number, I'll try a different one.

 

I am attaching a draft witness statement,I have put a lot but less than I originally had,so that you can advise to delete/ reorganise as appropriate..... I appreciate it's a draft so any comments welcome.

 

When it comes to evidence.....what do I have to show at this point in terms of the documents which I am referring to in the statement?not sure the Business park facilities manager will appreciate sharing info although I did tell him in cover letter I would intend to use it as defence.

 

Thanks guys and let the storm of criticism come in..appreciate feedback, its probably gonna save my a$$!

 

Sorry * was not made aware until 6th November  2019

 

191014_witness statement_v02 (3).pdf

[dx100uk 8,664]

notes

1.1 it is not a penalty charge notice.

 

1.2 mistake on date of 6/3/19 should be 6/11/19?
and tbh 1.2 doesnt help you at all ..id drop it completely

3

drop 1.3 totally 
simply state you only became aware by a CRA check date.

 

1.4 remove all before my payment [irrelevant info]
and remove proves that..thru till  ..i have

 

 

 

[Dodiqq 1]

OK I got through to Gladstones and I have a direct email to one of the call ladies who confirmed a section 21 notice would be sufficient to prove I was unable to know of correspondence. If I forward a copy of that to them, they will ask the CPM Management for them to agree to a set aside. ( she asked for a bank statement from 19th July 2019 when the court papers were filed but I am unwilling to give them anything that has my bank number on it so we agreed to that.) Her voice sounded a bit shaken after she spoke to the manager (?) for 3 minutes.

 

I'm going to send the below confirmation letter to them.

 

Date 15/11/2019.

Ref no. XXXX 

 

Dear S

 

As discussed over the phone earlier today, please find attached Section 21 notice which indicates I did not reside in the address ADDRESS NO.2 from 01 March 2019 and therefore it is clear I had no knowledge of the proceedings related to the Default Judgment case no. XXXXXX of 14t August 2019.

 

I am writing to you in good faith as the Claim Particulars upon which the above Default Judgment Order was made are incorrect. One of the errors relates to the location of the alleged contravention. The photographic evidence in the letter of 23rd August 2018 issued by your client do not relate to Merlin Road in Farnborough stated in the Claim Particulars.

 

In the interests of justice and fairness I believe it is reasonable to agree to a set-aside in order to save trouble and inconvenience to everyone including the court.

 

If your client agrees, please confirm immediately by return, within no longer than 7 calendar days, as well as in writing on the address above.

 

If you have any comments or if you would like to discuss this further, please do not hesitate to respond to this email by return, to request a call back.

 

Kind regards,

 

Miss D XXX

 

 

 

 

[Dodiqq 1]

Afternoon all.

 

01. I had no update from Gladstones but given the email tracker attached to email, got proof they read it last Friday. (why didn't I think of this earlier).

 

Now my intention is that if I do not hear anything from Gladstones by Thursday

( I may call them Wed morning to check how's the progress),

I will have to send the form Wednesday afternoon latest Thursday so they receive it/file it Friday morning as I need to update the Vendor Friday on progress and timescales.

 

02. Therefore, I will continue with amending the draft witness statement in the coming 3 evenings.

Would any of you have any further comments to add please?

and if you agree with DX?

 

03. I went back to the site where my car was actually parked in case they wanted to change the claim particulars later.

 

There is no sign at entrance that this is a private road and as you turn right, there is no sign on the right hand side of road along the pavement, where the car was parked.

 

There was one to the left a little further and a few beyond at the next crossing but a driver driving on LHS and parking on the RHS, with the car driver getting out onto the pavement, would not notice the sign unless they drove a bit further and reversed.

 

Also the sign is at about 2.2m, very hard to read, and the prohibition of parking on the road is actually a sticker on top of existing sign. Even if they had planning permission to install the signs, the sticker could be added any time.

 

04. I have a question to you if either of you are legally trained, if you are not then I could pay a solicitor to look through this n244 form and witness statement once we agree the base arguments (obviously the more homework I do the better as it will reduce the fee)

 

Have a good day  

 

pixs2.pdf

[dx100uk 8,664]

You never need a solicitor

Extreme waste of money

Everything is here already in threads

[Mrs O'Frog 161]

Plus most solicitors are not especially well versed in parking contracts, so you could be paying good money for bad advice.

 

Sometimes a parking company will send somebody from a local firm of solicitors to save them traveling. They nearly always lose when they come up against a well-prepped defendant because they have no specialist knowledge.

[Dodiqq 1]

Well I feel lost right now, I have never been in this situation, and legal documents and politics were never my forte.

 

Please can some gurus comment if I should mention/ not mention some things in the previously submitted document v3?

Agree with DX (I thought the 1.2 & 1.3 would be helping mitigating factors)?

 

I may be able to get some advice from citizens advice lawyer once it gets to pre-approval stage for the hearing -> but still  need to submit the n244 with the statement and defence and get there!

 

[dx100uk 8,664]

CAB are useless at private parking stuff.

 

you need to trust the experts here that are well experienced in these parking matter.

 

as for my suggestion for changes to your WS, you don't need any mitigating circumstances 

the fact that the speculative invoice and the particulars of claim do not relate to the same location should be well enough to throw the claim out.

 

should you wish to inc your photos of your latest pix2 pdf to further prove the above fact then do so but label them and refer to them as exhibit 1,2,3 etc in your WS at the relevant places.

[Mrs O'Frog 161]

Beware using the word "mitigating". That is only if you're admitting it and asking them to be lenient because x,y,z or whatever.

 

You are not admitting it so there can't be anything to mitigate something you didn't do.

[brassnecked 1,594]

Absolutely Mrs O'Frog, we cannot stress that Mitigation as a term to use in a WS is a no no, it is not a rebuttal but a plea for mercy, in this case there is nothing to mitigate, there was no breach to mitigate.

[Dodiqq 1]

Does it mean I should delete any information that may suggest I knew about this and corresponded with the solicitors/claimant even if it is mentioning i was to question the validity of the letter and refusing liability? 

 

Are photographs and the previous map from OS website sufficient or should I also include the Facilities manager email (well, together with my cover email that I intend to use it for court)

[dx100uk 8,664]

its not a full hearing and that might never happen.

 

the main issue here is outlined in post 63.

and ofcourse you knowing about this or that is immaterial to that fact.

I would simply refer too and inc say 2 exhibits that prove the location issue.

 

 

[Dodiqq 1]

Thanks DX.

Does it mean I should not wait on Gladstones/UK Car Park Management reply of consent and just file the thing hoping it will get struck out within 4 weeks?

 

Should I just request it is struck out and not set aside? Otherwise will keep it as is with options of both, but based on abuse of process invite the Judge to strike it out

Edited November 19, 2019 by Dodiqq

[dx100uk 8,664]

the fleecers have no say in the matter and you don't need their consent.

you are the doing the set aside because of their mistake and refusal to mutually accept a set aside outside of the court process.

 

let the judge be the one to decide what actions to take once he reads the case.

[Dodiqq 1]

Attached redacted drafts. Is this what should be submitted with the N244 form?

 

The "annexes" to be changed to "exhibits" - WIP.

 

Again, any comments/deletions/amendments welcome.

 

I am aware I could just request for set aside based on wrong particulars but I want to further argue the penalty fine/ the POFA to increase likelihood of the claim to be struck out. What do you think?

 

 

[dx100uk 8,664]

where does any of the paperwork from day one state its a penalty or a fine please? 

 

for your safety as being anon i've had to remove your documents as if you look in the file properties section it gives all your pers details

 

file, save as, .pdf in the dropdown menu after changing your pers detail to … in office setup. or use a sep online docx - pdf converter website.

 

 

[Dodiqq 1]

 I don't have the original windscreen PCN but claim was made as a breach of contract.

The Demand Letter and all subsequent to follow relate to condition "no parking on roadways" communicated by sign "by breach of the above conditions, will result in the driver being liable for Parking Charge of £100."

(sign PARKING CONDITIONS on the photos previously attached)

 

OK, I have converted to pdfs and removed my info in properties, should be sufficient.

 

Draft order.pdf191014_witness statement_v04.pdf 

Draft Defence.pdf

[dx100uk 8,664]

what im trying to point out is that by using those two words fine and penalty after all your research your mindset is still not quite in the right box..

 

it cant be either,

it was a speculative invoice issued by a private company for breaking some kind of imaginary contract you signed upto by entering a privately owned area .

 

 

 

 

[Dodiqq 1]

Ok. should I drop the whole penalty thing in defence and just rely on not getting the notice to keeper - I am 70% sure they didn't issue it as I was back at the previous address but they can lie they did / show a document I never got and then it will take longer with the hearing....

 

well then will have to rely on abuse of process and signage.

I wasn't going to submit the image of the sign "conveying the contract" as it clearly wasn't visible from driver's position.

[dx100uk 8,664]

its never been a penalty charge notice, only a parking charge notice.

only the police/council/court can fine anyone for parking and that's via a magistrates court and its a criminal matter

 

not a speculative invoice which is a civil matter hence the county court and the CCJ for unpaid money to a creditor.

 

it needs a lot of work

i'll pop by later tonight.

 

but your real only need is to :

point out

 

1. why you didnt get the claimform

2. the discrepancy between the claimed parking location in their poc and the actual location of your parking location

ref/inc of photos will do.

anything else is irrelevant at this stage.