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HP Mum

bank/dca/strangers harrassing relative

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Thanks for the link UncleB

Proof of service of statutory demand

10.3.—(1) Where section 268 requires a statutory demand to be served before the petition, a certificate of service of the demand must be filed with the court with the petition.

 

(2) The certificate must be verified by a statement of truth and be accompanied by a copy of the demand served.

 

(3) If the demand has been served personally on the debtor, the statement of truth must be made by the person who served the demand unless service has been acknowledged in writing by the debtor or a person authorised to accept service.

 

(4) If service has been acknowledged in writing either by—

(a)the debtor; or

(b)a person who is authorised to accept service on the debtor’s behalf and who has stated that this is the case in the acknowledgement of service;

then the certificate of service must be authenticated either by the creditor or by a person acting on the creditor’s behalf, and the acknowledgement of service must accompany the certificate.

 

(5) If the demand has been served other than personally and there is no acknowledgement of service, the certificate must be authenticated by a person or persons having direct personal knowledge of the means adopted for serving the statutory demand, and must contain the following information—

(a)the steps taken to serve the demand; and

(b)a date by which, to the best of the knowledge, information and belief of the person authenticating the certificate, the demand will have come to the debtor’s attention.

 

(6) Where paragraph (5) applies the statutory demand is deemed to have been served on the debtor on the date referred to in paragraph (5)(b) unless the court determines otherwise.

 

So:

1) above - how can they issue a certificate of service?

 

2) above - how can they provide a certificate of truth that it has been served when they know it has not?  Furthermore - recorded

delivery letters have now been sent by relative to processor/ lawyer stating that processor knew they had wrong address.

 

3) above - I only just found out this week and have not yet acknowledged service in writing. 

I could now write to the bank/processor so would that mean that the clock starts ticking from, say, tomorrow?

 

Re 6)above which relies on 5: 5a) - the steps taken to serve were not by direct contact with me

 

5b)  - how could they claim to the best of their knowledge etc that the demand will have come to my attention?

 

 

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UncleB - yes I had. And I just rechecked.  Nothing.

 

Dx - should I send bank a SAR relevant to property? Ell-en recommended one on a different thread.   Trawling through papers this w/e and I see there are some potential discrepancies/ copy & paste issues. 

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An sar to the legal owner of 'whatever' should have been sent months ago.

however that will reveal a contact address that you must thus verify, so thus give a valid and varified SD service address.?

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

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If you are of no fixed abode, you could write to the Bank/mortgage company advising that you have no current contact address and the only address that they can use to contact you, is an email address.   

 

I think what the process server will do is say that they have delivered or attempted to deliver the SD to your relatives address, as they had no other UK postal address.   If this is argued later,  then so be it.  

 

If you send an SAR with no postal address to advise them of, how are you going to receive the information back ?


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Could they not send to previous address?  If mail is on divert to a place where I can collect would that be ok?

 

Can info from a SAR request be sent by email now?

 

For the record - I just remembered that the bank did send a letter by recorded delivery to the previous address - and I did collect it and they will have a record of signature and the date that I collected it

Edited by HP Mum

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I have spoken to relative.  Asked if any other mail has been sent to them for my attention.  Turns out someone tried to send something to relative last September-ish and the letter was returned 'return to sender, not at this address'.  I asked if they could remember the name/ address.  Turns out it was the receiver. 

So the receiver would have been aware I was not at that relative's address.

 

Furthermore, the receiver/ their lawyer also emailed me, attaching a legal Notice, in August.  The attached Notice was incorrectly addressed again, but not relative's. (am sure it would have been rts by whoever lived at the other address too)     

However, the email was acknowledged - in the sense I passed the email on to appropriate lawyer to deal with.  That issue was dealt with by mid-end October by lawyer response.   So - the receiver/their lawyer and the bank used email to contact me/ knew it was received and dealt with.  So why not email me directly again when they want to serve a SD on me?

 

There's some explanations: they didn't want me to respond / wanted to intimidate me.

The truth is that they have been putting me under immense pressure to influence the freeholders to relinquish the fh. That's what the autumn legal notice was about.   Lawyers had to respond - the fh was/is not mine.  Again the cost of the legal notice action was added to my debt.

 

Would this all be enough to show they knew I was contactable?  That I was not avoiding them?

 

 

Edited by HP Mum

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The bank had repeatedly threatened b.  They said they would forego b if they were given the fh.  I suspect they are bullying/ intimidating me in the hope the (family) freeholders step in and relinquish it.  But that can't and won't happen.

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Don't think the legislation allows for service of documents by email. 

 

If the Bank has possession and cannot sell it, they may be wanting to let the property, so they need to have the ownership transfered to them.  Not sure why they cannot sell it at a loss, unless the leasehold period is not for enough years to satisfy a purchasers Solicitors. 

 

You could just remond the Bank in writing of your current situation, that you are still of no fixed abode, so anything important needs to be communicated via email. They could arange an appointment st nearest Banking branch to serve you with any documents, if you wanted that.


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UnlceB - the lease is sufficiently long enough for any bank's satisfaction. 

I see the bank has recently set up a btl arm - so you maybe correct?

 

When you say 'not sure why they can't sell it at a loss' - what do  you mean?

 

I know they have been sitting on 1 offer for the lease for almost 1y.    With interest accruing I don't know why they didn't close that offer?  Although, given the poor market, potential buyer was prob hedging to see if they can get it cheaper?  Seems the bank should have accepted that offer, even if at a loss, cos the loss is SO much greater now...

Bank then advised they had agreed an alternative sale in October - but this clearly fell through.  Not sure what happened with the 1st poss buyer?   This is another reason to ask for sar - requesting viewings/ offers details.

 

dx - I didn't send in a sar before as I thought I should only do that when they started demanding money - ie now they are trying to go for b.

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5 hours ago, HP Mum said:

 

I see the bank has recently set up a btl arm - so you maybe correct?

 

 


do you mean they are buying FH / LH to let themselves, or they have an arm offering FH’s btl mortgages?

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I mean they are normally just sharks offering high interest short loans.  But they have started to offer low interest btl to borrowers.

They refused to switch mine when I asked ages ago.

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You could make an offer to rent the house from them. Then they will have a tenant and know the address to send any correspondence.


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Nice thought UncleB - but they'd never  allow that!

I want to send sar - can I send by email now?  Or have to post?  And can I ask them to send docs c/o old address, on basis mail on divert & i can collect from a mailbox.

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Even though I have never had a SD served on me, does the 4 months period in which to issue a B petition still stand? 

Or does the processor - or whoever wants to serve - have to serve a new SD correctly at a known address and thus the 4 months process starts afresh?

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What is your (realistic!) desired end-point here?

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Posted (edited)

BazzaS - I am not 100% sure.  However, I do expect them to treat me fair.  Not to try get a backdoor B without my knowledge.

I sent in a sar.  2 weeks later - no response,yet.   Should I send them a reminder?    I want to ascertain all the costs applied, the interest accrued, the offers received etc.  IF they get a processor to serve a SD properly I want to be properly equipped with all the info from behind the scenes.  Then I can question or fight against B.

 

 

Edited by HP Mum

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They have a month to send the information.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Can I ask - if there is no Gazette notice found - how does one try to locate a potential court hearing in a potential unknown remote court location at an unknown point in time??

I mean, if lender/bank deliberately hiding their actions - what can borrower do? 

i.e.: lender given correct contact details of borrower but lender failing to respond within 30 days to sar.  No sar reply means no disclosure. Which means instead lender has potential to secretly action a back-door B

How would borrower try find out if a process is going on and via which court?

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Give them your address, where they can definitely make contact with you.  If you don't have a fixed address, then give them an email address which you state can be used for them to contact you and you can then arrange for them to meet you in person if they wish.


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Posted (edited)

thanks UncleB

That has been done within sar - to which they have not responded

and elderly relative written to process server/ lawyers to stop sending letters/ harrassing at their address.  But they have continued...

Am concerned that lender deliberately not sending legal letters to correct address is their plan

Edited by HP Mum

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Have done lots of research on lender.  Seems they do this a lot. 

 

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It seems clear that these people don't want to be transparent with their actions.  They have ability to serve notices in a correct manner - I have advised in writing - but they chose to create a sideshow in a completely different locality.   Seems like they hope to get a backdoor B without me finding out - until after a court hearing/ judgment?   Nothing in gazette.

Assuming they persist in a devious manner and get to a court somewhere - am I reassured that they would not be granted B due to not being able to provide a 'certificate to prove service'?   And if the judge allows an adjournment of, say a few months, what would happen at the next hearing - that I still don't know about and they still haven't got 'certificate of service'? 

Would a judge just allow them to make me B -  with them pretending they "did everything to find me"??

OR - would a judge dismiss their B petition due to no 'certificate to prove service'?     

If there's a risk a judge could dismiss - does that mean these people would be obliged to behave correctly and should locate me/ serve me properly?  And if they do - what are my options then?

 

They have not yet responded to sar.   Delayed perhaps on purpose?

 

Just another thought - will this virus affect court hearings?

 

 

 

 

 

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What is the next step to take when haven't been sent docs within 30 days?

They had it in writing on the SAR where to send all the docs

 

They have had 30 days before we all got put in lockdown.  So there's no excuse.

However, I wonder who will now be around to argue/ enforce their failure?

 

 

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