ParcelForce via Parcel2Go ruined an expensive computer

[spookieghost]

Hi there first time poster needing to know if anything can be done regarding this.

 

I recently listed a PC of mine on eBay and sold it to a man with the promise of paying full 24-48 hour postage.

I paid for postage via Parcel2Go and paid an extra £30 ish for their “Parcel protection cover”.

The box itself was sturdy and inside was layered with paper and additional cardboard and paper on the bottom.

The PC was triple bubble wrapped as well.

 

Needless to say, a day after the buyer received it he messaged me telling me how it’s ruined.

Showing me pictures of the case being cracked and bent (which wasn’t physically possible unless someone gave the PC a large drop or was negligent).

 

I apologised and opened a claim with parcel2go, sending the buyer his money back.

Now Parcel2Go have rejected my case because according to their terms and conditions they only can cover the cost if a computer is lost not damaged.

But they’re more than willing to refund the cost of postage as a “good will” but not give me the money back for insurance.

They’ve sent me £12.74 total back.

 

I’m honestly at a loss here, I’m a university student who was selling that PC to help make rent and now I’m £500 in the red because of something out of my control.

 

If anything can or can’t be done regarding this, please can you let me know.

[dx100uk]

why have you put Parcelforce in the title?

what have they got to do with it?

 

yes as lots of others here are doing 

you can issue a court claim against the courier

[spookieghost]

Parcelforce were the courier, Parcel2Go were the broker.

However I paid via parcel2go so it’s their claims policy that’s in effect I believe.

 

Sorry should’ve made that clearer. Are you sure I can make a claim against them? They seem adamant that they’re in the right since their terms do say about computers only being covered for loss not damage. 

[BankFodder]

Where are you with this please?

[spookieghost]

8 hours ago, BankFodder said:

Where are you with this please?

 

I’ve spoken to Citizens Advice and they’ve passed me onto their consumer team regarding this. Hopefully they’ll have some advice based on if I can actually make a claim, as I’m not even sure if there’s anything I can do.

[dx100uk]

sorry by 9/10 CAB = useless info.

 

pers i'd start a court claim.

dx

[BankFodder]

If you want to make any headway with this matter you will have to engage with this thread. there's not much point in posting a story and then disappearing for several days and then going to see someone else. I will certainly be interested to know what citizens advice recommend but I'm afraid that the best we can say about them usually is that they are well-intentioned.

 

It's not guaranteed that you can can succeed against Parcel2Go go but we can certainly have a look. Did you declare that it was a computer? Please could you reproduce the terms and conditions which they are apparently relying upon here.

[BankFodder]

Also, has the computer been returned to you and other than the external damage to the case, does it work?

[spookieghost]

1 hour ago, BankFodder said:

Also, has the computer been returned to you and other than the external damage to the case, does it work?

 

The computer has not been returned to me , there is significant damage to the graphics card as well.

 

1 hour ago, BankFodder said:

If you want to make any headway with this matter you will have to engage with this thread. there's not much point in posting a story and then disappearing for several days and then going to see someone else. I will certainly be interested to know what citizens advice recommend but I'm afraid that the best we can say about them usually is that they are well-intentioned.

 

It's not guaranteed that you can can succeed against Parcel2Go go but we can certainly have a look. Did you declare that it was a computer? Please could you reproduce the terms and conditions which they are apparently relying upon here.

 

Apologises, I’ve unfortunately been very busy and will try and keep this thread updated as often as possible. I did declare it’s a computer and paid their “parcel protection”. As for their terms and conditions I’ll post their full reply and terms when I’m at my desk in a few hours. Many thanks for the reply! 

[BankFodder]

I'm still waiting to see the terms conditions – although I may have found something on their website.

I think you will need to threaten and eventually to bring an action in the Small Claims Court and your rights provided by the consumer rights act. I can't quite remember the cost of bringing the claim that it would be about £35 or so I think if you are claiming for the value of the computer which you say is £500.

Also, if they run you to a hearing then you will have to pay a hearing fee which may be about £100. You need to check this up on the County Court's website. This will probably the extent of your financial risk in the event that you lose the case. However in my view you have a fairly high chance of winning and also there is a reasonable chance – better than 50% that they will put their hands up rather than go to court – but don't bank on it. Assume that you will be put to the expense of a claim fee and also a hearing fee and that you will have to attend court and that you could lose.

The consumer rights act section 49 requires that a trader who provides a contractual service must perform that service with reasonable care and skill. It is clear that they have not done so.

Section 57 of the consumer rights are at provides that the trader is not entitled to include any contractual term which excludes their responsibility to use reasonable skill and care when carrying out the service. It seems to me that if there is a term which excludes liability for damage to a computer, that they are effectively in breach of the requirements of section 57. Furthermore, in schedule two of the Act, there is an exemplar list of contractual provisions which are automatically considered to be unfair and therefore unenforceable. As I say, they are exemplar and you can extrapolate and see whether your and circumstances apply. To my mind, example number two of schedule two rather fits the bill and certainly section 57 of the act I think prevents Parcel2Go from relying on their exclusion clause which I think would be an unfair term within the meaning of schedule two.

Have a look at this and see what you think. You also had to decide whether you think that it is worth the risk.

There are two reasons why think that Parcel2Go might put their hands up. Number one is that I believe that you may be in a fairly northern part of the country and although I don't know where Parcel2Go are based, I can imagine that it would cost them a fair amount of money to start instructing a local lawyer to turn up at court for a county court hearing. This doesn't mean that they wouldn't test you to see whether you are prepared to pay the court fee but if you did pay the hearing fee then that would up the ante and they would then have to consider their own risks. Because you are an individual claimant against a business defendant, the case would be allocated to your local court which presumably would be local to your university address.

The second reason why they might want to put their hands up is that if they lost the case and people got to know about it then they might suddenly find themselves with a flood of claims and they might prefer simply to pay you out rather than to have this known publicly. We are currently assisting a  journalist at  who is looking at all of these kinds of things with the possibility of something in the New Year.

However, this is a risk you have to take. I think that the chances of them putting their hands up are probably about 75% although it may be after you paid a hearing fee. The chances of you winning if it went to trial are probably better than 80%. We generally prefer better odds here but 80% is pretty good. I think it's up to you to examine your own personal budget.

What can you do about getting the computer back? I think you would need to produce it in court. In addition to the documents which I've asked you to post here and you haven't so far, please would you post the photographs. Do you have photographs of the outside packaging as well?

Also I forgot to add that it seems to me that when they refer to "electrical goods" as excluded for damage, it would be possible to argue that the kind of damage which is foreseen refers to electrical/internal damage and not to the kind of physical damage which your computer apparently has received and I would certainly be urging the judge to say that this was not contemplated by the exclusions even if the exclusion was valid in other circumstances

[spookieghost]

 

Sorry again having issues uploading images, they’re claiming under section 6.1 of their terms and conditions they aren’t liable.

 

I’m going to have to upload the damage and outside packaging photos to Imgur as they’re not allowing me to share the photos of the damage.

 

As for getting the computer back, I am in contact with the person that bought the computer and will hopefully be arranging return of the computer to myself as soon as possible

[BankFodder]

Please would you post clause 6.3 in its entirety. As you can see, you have cut off 6.3 (a) midsentence.

[spookieghost]

2 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

Please would you post clause 6.3 in its entirety. As you can see, you have cut off 6.3 (a) midsentence.

 

Yes, sorry that’s down below in the second screenshot.

 

Link to images of packaging and damage from buyer: https://imgur.com/a/d7GkXiH

 

 

[BankFodder]

Thank you. Having read very briefly the clause 6.3, it seems to me to add weight to your position. They seem particularly to be keen on excluding liability for damage because they say that they are unable to ascertain the value to you of the damaged item. However, that doesn't seem to apply here because you have specifically identified the value at being £500 and you have asked for compensation cover for £500 so they can scarcely be any dispute. If you tried later on to allege a greater value then they would easily be up to point out to the fact that you had fixed the value of their liability at £500.

I think I have now explained to you the situation and your position and it is up to you to assess the risk of bringing an action or simply letting it go.

If you want some help bring an action then let us know and we will help you draft the necessary documents.

When citizens advice get back to you – please let us know what they say.

What are you studying at your university?

[spookieghost]

Many thanks, I’m going to have to weigh up my options with regards to risk and I appreciate all the advice given.

 

I will post the reply from Citizens Advice when I receive one and go from there.

 

I’m studying for my BSc (Hons) in Physics.

[BankFodder]

Well if you are at the University I think you are at, they do provide an LLB course. Unfortunately it seems to be an extremely conventional and fairly unimaginative course. No specialisms offered in consumer law and simply the law contract as part of the law obligations in the first year – when students still haven't developed the kind of confidence and kick-arse attitude which is necessary to develop critical skills and the ability to extrapolate.

Still, you might ask around and see if anybody wants to talk to you about this. It's always worth getting a second view but beware of a straitjacketed approach.  Many lawyers seem to feel that they are confined by natural laws – but they aren't.

[spookieghost]

Appreciate that advice, yes my University does offer an LLB degree in Law and it may be worth asking around.

 

I’ll just need to carefully consider what you and Citizens Advice say and go from there.

 

I’ll update this thread when I have all the information and when I’ve made a decision on what action to follow

[spookieghost]

Apologises, I have contacted them but unfortunately they told me that they’d have to contact me back due to them being very busy.

 

will update again when they have contacted me back.

[BankFodder]

Who is it you're talking about? Parcel2Go? Your university? Citizens advice?

[spookieghost]

Citizens Advice, I also did try the Universities team however they aren’t available on a Wednesday.

[BankFodder]

[spookieghost]

16 hours ago, BankFodder said:

 

Honestly I’m not surprised either if Citizens Advice don’t give me a bell back by the weekend then I’ll have to give them a ring first thing on Monday

[BankFodder]

And huff and then puff and then…?

[spookieghost]

On 14/11/2019 at 14:20, BankFodder said:

And huff and then puff and then…?

 

Yes I did have to huff and puff, called Citizens Advice since they didn’t call me earlier today and they had the same advice basically. I’m going to have to weigh options considering it’s near Christmas and I’m a broke student so even if I could do something it may have had to be after Christmas.

[BankFodder]

Whenever you're ready. Let us know