Advise on recovery of a person to person debt with a signed agreement please.

[Bakerboy27]

Hi all, I know this is an unusual one for this site but here goes.

 

I have known a couple for a few years, helped them out no end and seemed to be quite friendly with them, they found themselves in a bad housing situation where they couldn't find a bond to move from the accommodation they were in (slum landlord) to a new place.

 

long story short,

I loaned them the money. around 800 quid.

 

we both agreed that this was a loan, not a gift and I have a signed agreement to that end.

Also because of their circumstances this was a no interest loan and I gave them the option of varied payments because as we all know sometimes things just don't go well.

 

The first payment was half what we agreed, now that was not a problem and I expected it anyway, I had nothing to gain by putting any undue pressure on. 

 

The second payment was missed completely, that also wouldn't have been an issue if the couple had talked to me but the situation is that they won't answer calls, texts or visits. I have no idea why unless they just want to get away without paying at all.

 

This leaves me with no choice other than to try court action,

I can't afford to loose that money really so am looking for any advice that I can get.

 

If they talked to me I wouldn't even consider this.

 

Thanks

[stu007]

Hi

 

Please be patient I am sure our caggers will be along to assist you.

 

Could your post you post up a Redacted copy of the Agreement you mention in PDF only please?

 

Do you know there exact present address?

 

I note you mention you have tried to contact them to sort this out but have you done this in writing ensuring to keep a copy and get free proof of posting form the Post Office? (you need to keep a good paper trail.)

 

IMO from your post it may be that you as you are aware may need to go down the legal route to recover the  money loaned but we do need more information.

 

 

[Bakerboy27]

Thanks for that, 

Do I know their address ?   Yes, I moved all their furniture in for them, not to mention supplying a lot of it in the first place !!

The agreement is attached with the names changed, the second note which in retrospect I should have dated was  in a letter I personally put in their postbox along with most of the guide from the Gov.uk website about making a court claim for money, just to hopefully nudge them to contacting me.

I posted this on 23/10/19 at about 11 pm and then sent a text to their phones ( they have 2 each) and got delivery reports to say they had been received.

I also have 2 numbers so I have sent the same message from both numbers to them to make sure that the message got through and have these saved as well.

Something which may be an issue is that they are on benefits so I don't wish to overburden them but just blanking me after all I have done for them is just unacceptable.

IMG.pdf

[AndyOrch]

Thread moved to General Legal Issues Forum...please continue to post here to your thread.

 

Andy

[Bakerboy27]

Thank you.

[stu007]

Hi

 

If you do take this further you need to bear in mind the Pre-Action Protocol for taking legal action.

 

From reading your PDF especially the Personal Loan Agreement the issue I see is:

 

1. The Date it was agreed/signed (30/09/2019). (due to below)

 

2. The payment you have Agreed as 'Variable Subject to Circumstances'. ( As below you have set no fixed date this is to be paid in full)

 

3. There is No Fixed end date that the Loan is to be Paid in Full by.

 

Yes your agreement states '£50 per fortnight'  but due to the date it was agreed/signed I see the above issues the main one being there is no end date as to which it was to be paid by and you agreed to it being variable but nothing states they need to agree that with you the Lender o this.

 

Please be patient and see what others say.

 

[Bakerboy27]

Thanks Stu, I realise that this is full of holes. as is, I guess, often the case this is an unexpected situation and because of this the agreement was never meant to be a contract but rather a note of intent.

Ironically the borrowers were quite firm on having something in writing to do it the right way !!

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[BazzaS]

If it comes to court and you succeed, do they have the ability to pay?

If not, “you can’t get blood from a stone”.

[Bakerboy27]

That is a very good point,when we first talked about this they were told, we don't care how long it takes to pay it back, if you can't manage to pay what you think, just talk to us because we know things don't always go to plan.

 I have helped this couple with LOTS of things , from shopping trips when they were broke , cash when thy needed help,  thats just the tip of the iceberg. 

I'm really ticked off about it, I am aware that  it is a possibility that I won't get anything but I can't just leave it without trying.

I provided these people with a complete new start in life that was just not available to them.

What would you do ?

[AndyOrch]

I would draft a well worded letter before claim which you must now do as per Pre Action Protocol informing them of your disappointment and failure to respond.

Inform them of the costs and interest that will be added should you have to litigate and the consequences of having a County Judgment against both their names.

 

Allow 14 days for a response...if any.......otherwise you will issue the claim. 

 

Andy

[Bakerboy27]

Thank you, I will get onto that this afternoon and post up before I send. 

What sort of proof do I need that the letter has been sent ? 

I dont imagine they would sign for anything recorded delivery and with it being a flat the post box is remote from the flat.

[honeybee13]

You can get free proof of posting at post offices. 

 

HB

[BazzaS]

The law on this can seem a bit odd (The Interpretation Act 1978). You are often better off (if you chose to send a single letter) sending it ordinary post (which may as well be first class), ensuring

a) That the correct postage is fully paid, and

b) getting a (free!) certificate of posting.

 

The interpretation act says that it is then considered delivered 2 working days later, unless it can be shown to the contrary.

 

So you are better off (if sending a single letter) to do just that, rather than sending it by a tracked method (recorded delivery or special delivery) where, if there is no signature for delivery, they might “show to the contrary”  that it hadn’t been delivered.

 

Of course, if you are having to go to the Post Office anyhow to get the certificate of posting, there is nothing (bar cost!) stopping you sending 2 identical letters at the same time

a) one by a tracked method, (with proof of posting), and

b) one by ordinary post with proof of posting.

 

If the first gets signed for : proof positive of the delivery. If you don’t get a signature for the first that won’t stop you using the provisions of the Interpretation Act for the second .....

 

This is also a good technique to use where you think recipients will try and ‘dodge’ Recorded and Special Delivery mail ......

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by BazzaS

[Bakerboy27]

Thank you all, I use Ebay a lot so am familiar with the proof of posting, I like the idea of doubling up for the sake of a bit of postage so thanks for that idea. 

I will get on to this this afternoon.

[Bakerboy27]

Ok guys, I found the letter template on the "Which" website so I hope its the right sort of thing and would appreciate any advise / corrections on this draft.

Thanks.

IMG.pdf

[Bakerboy27]

Or this one which isn't a template and I think much simpler. I will put the relevant dates in.

Simple LBA redacted.pdf

[AndyOrch]

Either which ever you feel more comfortable with and knowing the debtors how they may respond.You failed to mention the date of this loan but I would also add that along with court costs there will be interest added at 8 % (See Section 69  County Courts Act 1984 )  up until judgment should you attain a judgment.

[Bakerboy27]

Thanks again, I will do that .

[AndyOrch]

And should be clearly headed in bold before the Dear Friends......Letter before Claim

[Bakerboy27]

Thank you.

[Bakerboy27]

Just one quick point before I send this, Andy you said 14 days but the pre-action protocol mentions 30, is there a change somewhere ?

 

[AndyOrch]

Thats with regards to the procedure to disclose documents and allow time to  mediate...which is not applicable in this dispute........its 14 days for the actual letter before action.but it's your choice and how effective you wish the letter to be....or how reasonable you wish to be.

[Bakerboy27]

Thanks. 14 days is more than long enough for an answer.

[Bakerboy27]

Thanks all for your help so far, letter before action sent by normal mail and recorded. I have the delivery signature and posting proof so I think that angle is covered. Now I will wait a bit, I really don't expect a reply but I always hope for the best.

 Thanks 

[Bakerboy27]

On 29/10/2019 at 05:02, BazzaS said:

If it comes to court and you succeed, do they have the ability to pay?

If not, “you can’t get blood from a stone”.

 

Well it's come to the time to the time to do something about this and I have been giving this a lot of thought particularly what BazzaS has said.

 So, I have no experience in these matters and while it really ticks me off, what is the likelihood of a satisfactory result ?  I don't doubt that there is a very good chance of a successful court finding but if the chance of payment is very slim then there is little point in wasting more money.

 They are on benefits and have nothing of any real value so sending bailiffs in would be pointless. the only other possibility as far as I see would be to have a payment direct from the benefits.  Would this even be a possibility ? 

 I did get a few texts from them last weekend when they accused me of messing with their benefits and were very abusive so to just let it go doesn't sit well with me but I have to be practical.

 

Thanks Everyone.