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    • If you are flying away tomorrow (or rather this) morning I'd just forget about complaining to the police now.  As BF said earlier it's probably just a waste of your time anyway so I wouldn't worry about it.  Forget it for now.  Have a safe flight and concentrate on your other thread against Aviva.
    • I'm afraid you won't get a complaint drafted before tomorrow morning - and I think most others here think it would be a waste of time anyway and that the police decision won't change.  I would ask for a review and make a complaint on principle, but I suspect you are better off concentrating your effort on your other thread and direct complaint against Aviva.   Unless you are out of the country for an extended period I'd wait until your return before considering futrther whwther to complain about the police.   [ By the way, just so that you don't mislead yourself as it's a mistake many people make, ALL agreements are "verbal" in that they are composed of words.  Some agreements are in writing and others are oral, spoken or vocal.  The law recognises oral or spoken agreements just as much as ones that are written down.  The only practical difference is that oral agreements can be difficult to prove in a dispute]
    • Just to add there is a scheme called the Victim's Right to Review.  It basically applies to decisions made by the CPS not to go ahead with a prosecution.  It doesn't apply to decisions made by local police forces, but it does say:   19.  Decisions that are not eligible for VRR include: ... iii where the police or other investigator exercises their independent discretion not to investigate or not to investigate a case further (whether in consultation with the CPS or not) and the CPS have not been requested / have been unable to make a final decision to charge. Requests for review of such decisions should instead be addressed to the relevant police force/other investigator; [My bold] Victims' Right to Review Scheme | The Crown Prosecution Service WWW.CPS.GOV.UK   I'm not familiar with the scheme so can't advise - but other posters here may know about it or have experience of it.  You need to read the above link but note that it talks about things that seem to fit your situation.   eg a victim is defined as ‘a person who has made an allegation that they have suffered harm, including physical, mental or emotional harm or economic loss which was directly caused by criminal conduct’.   If you have not already requested that the police review their decision not to pass the case onto the CPS, then I would do so.  If you are not happy with the outcome of that, complain.   I can't advise you definitely to go ahead and ask for a review or complain, but if I were in your situation that is what I would do.  But I tend to agree with BankFodder that you'll get nowhere and, if you are sick and tired of all this and just want it to go away, then just drop the police.  However, if you don't try...   [Apologies for the italic typeface/font - it's the above link causing it.  The italics should have stopped at the end of the third para above ending ' ... criminal conduct'.  I can't change it.  Very annoying]
    • @Manxman in exile I eloped to get with my husband si my husband and siblings never sat together in the same room .   Hes claiming a verbal agreement was made but a verbal agreement doesn't hold any water in the eyes of the law..no agreement was made I was in Leeds with my toddler.    He has made use of the policy , had the luxury of the insurance and reversed the money back and now Aviva are coming after me.   You've summed it up well is there anyone in the group that can help me draft the complaint to the police as I'm flying out first thing tomorrow and my head is all over the place.   My husband me Mr z , my late father and eldest brother were at this meeting supposedly when the verbal agreement was made but yet the officer took a statement off the eldest brother and didn't take it off the husband and based the final decision on the eldest brothers statement and Mr Z and all other evidence which is in written form has been completely dismissed    I'm fighting it all alone coming from an Asian background I am getting taunts and salt is bring rubbed on my wounds its not been a pleasant experience yo say the least trying to prove my innocence and having to listen to the b******* being spouted out by everyone whilst Mr Z is walking away not guilty 
    • I would complain to the police - even if I thought it would go nowhere.  I can't see that you have anything to lose.   I can't tell you the grounds of your complaint because I don't know the details of everything that has happened (you know better than I do)  and because I've found much of the story too difficult to follow.     But - based on everything you have told us - it seems to me that your brother has clearly committed fraud by obtaining the benefit of an insurance policy by falsely misrepresenting that he was opening the policy on your behalf and also by falsely misrepresenting himself - or a third party - as being your husband.  If your brother could not have taken out that policy without making those misrepresentations, then he has committed fraud.  It doesn't matter whether the victim was Aviva or you  and it doesn't matter if the victim realises they've been defrauded or not - the police should investigate it properly.  In this case you are the ultimate victim of the fraud because Aviva are saying that you owe them for the premiums on the policy your brother fraudulently took out, so whether Aviva consider they were the victims of fraud or not is irrelevant - they don't care because you end up as the fall guy.  Point out that this may have ended in a civil dispute over a debt between you and Aviva, but that that debt directly arises as a result of your brother's fraud in claiming to be acting on your behalf and by impersonating your brother.   One of the reasons the police seem to have dropped this case (and this needs to be one of your main grounds of complaint I think) is that they have accepted without question your brother's statement that your husband was somehow involved or in some way agreed to your brother taking this policy out in your name, and the police have simply and uncritically accepted your brother's word on that without ever speaking to your husband, who would vigourously deny it.    (I can't make any better suggestion than that because, to be honest, I don't follow what has happened.  If you never authorised your brother to open this insurance policy at all then I don't understand why the police would place any importance at all on your husband being present at a meeting with your brother.  What did your husband's presence have to do with the insurance policy?  Even if he had been at such meeting (which you say he denies) then how could he authorise anything on your behalf?  None of it makes any sense to me and I can't see why the police would think it did.)   Challenge the police to explain to you why they believe there is insufficient evidence to pass this on to the CPS   I would follow the published complaints procedure of the police force in question and I would also send a copy to your local Police and Crime Commissioner.   I think the main problem here is that (despite what the nice woman PC may have suggested to you) the police have never considered you to be the victim.  You need to demonstrate to them via your complaint that you are the victim here.   One other question: is your husband and are your family supporting you through this, or are you going it alone?
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Calderdale College/Brachers PAPLOC Now claimform - College Course Fee - Paid by DD until Forced to Leave by Calderdale College - want remaining years Fee.


ElDiego10
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Thank you for opening the thread again. 

 

Just received a letter after 4 months.

 

It is from STA - saying that I owe X amount and defaulted on paying the remaining DD's of X amount after withdrawing from the course and there is a indemnity stated full balance is due after 3 weeks on the course or more. 

 

It then goes onto say that they may pass it onto their solicitors to issue a claim.

 

I will get a pic of the letter as soon as I can.

 

I assume the normal route and advice on here is to ignore it and do nothing until a letter of claim comes my way?

 

Thanks in advance.

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Yep!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 1 month later...

So I just got another letter now that literally states "YOUR EARLIEST RESPONSE IS APPRECIATED" (at the top in green) and then, "Further to my previous letter, please call me now on X quoting reference number X - nothing else.

 

Same routine, file and ignore!

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  • 1 month later...

ive removed the claimform you'd left a few things showing

 

we dont need it

 

please complete this:

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to STA/Hadfield PAPLOC now Claimform - College Course Fee - Paid by DD until Forced to Leave by Calderdale College - want remaining years Fee.

Name of the Claimant ? Calderdale College

 

Date of issue – 16/09/21

 

Date  to acknowledge) = 04/10/21

date to submit defence = 18/10/21 

 

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? 

 

1.The Claimant claims the sum of £1042.50 in respect of tuition fees, details of which have been delivered to the Defendant.

 

2.Payment has not been made and the Claimant therefore claims

– 1. The sum of £1042.50 being as to the sum due.

2. Costs.

 

3.The Claimant has complied with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims dated this 15/09/2021.

 

4.The Claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at the rate of 8.00% a year from 30/05/2019 to 15/09/2021 on £1042.50 and also interest at the same rate up to the  date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.23.

 

What is the total value of the claim? £1394.44
 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes
 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? N/A

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Tuition Fees
 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After April 2007
 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? At the college – signed paper.
 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? No.
 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. STA International
 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Received letters from STA International chasing debt.
 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Yes
 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? No
 

Why did you cease payments? Was withdrawn by course tutor from the course.
 

What was the date of your last payment? 29 March 2019
 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? Yes
 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No

 

Edited by dx100uk
date corrections
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  • dx100uk changed the title to Calderdale College/Brachers PAPLOC Now claimform - College Course Fee - Paid by DD until Forced to Leave by Calderdale College - want remaining years Fee.

please note date corrections above.

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
[if mcol is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time]
.
 register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 then log in to the MCOL Website
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
[BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ]
click thru to the end
confirm and exit MCOL.

.

get a CPR  31:14  request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]
...
.[use our other CPR letter if the claim is for an OD or Telecom Debt]
.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/

.

 type your name ONLY
Do Not sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of ANY paperwork 
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

..............


 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thank you DX.

 

Quick question - it does mention a counter claim, is that something I would do now or later on ? I'm thinking of putting something in for the fees that I paid, plus compensation for time/distress/mental health etc? Or would you not recommend that? 

 

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No dont do that.

 

Just get aos/cpr done. Leave defence for now, you have 33 days as detailed above.

 

But dont missit!!

 

Dx

  • Thanks 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Do you have a reference/account number with the college ?

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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9 minutes ago, Andyorch said:

Do you have a reference/account number with the college ?

Couldn't remember it, so I just put down CalderdaleCollege - it did say on the side its whatever I wanted it to be (so hopefully not detrimental!)

 

I've done the CPR, will print it off and get it sent out tomorrow first class recorded delivery at work.

 

Thanks.

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You can make a start but not due until Monday 18th Oct...you have 33 days in total once you have stated you intend to defend all the claim.

 

Have you submitted your acknowledgment off service ? Must be done before Monday 4th Oct 4.00pm.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

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Hi Andy,

 

Yes, have been on the website and submitted acknowledgement. 

 

So I'll probably go over some things this weekend, only thing is I'm not sure how much detail I should go into these! 

 

Is it a basic - point 1 I will counter with saying I was forced to remove from the course etc. Keeping it short and sweet? 

 

Thanks again! 

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Have a go and post your draft and then we can tweak it....plenty of time.

  • Thanks 1

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi, so I have some points regarding a defence based on my situation - I am not 100% sure exactly how to word this, I've never done a defence before.

 

Some points are:

 

1. I paid the fees out of my own pocket. This is a quid pro quo contract, something for something in return. In this case I was paying for a service until I was denied the service from the college. There was no loan or credit taken out from the college or any third party institution. 

 

2. The college was challenged on the indemnity form which specifically states that if "I withdraw from the course". In this instance, I did not withdraw from the course, I was forced to leave the course by the college. I had been paying up until I was withdrawn. (evidence is available in the form of an email here)

 

3. The college quoted a learner disciplinary policy: There is a policy that they have quoted which states "5. If a student is excluded or suspended through the Learner Disciplinary Policy a refund of fees or a credit note will not be issued." - note: There is no refund to be asked for or credit note to be issued - therefore this does not apply in this instance, as I was paying out of my own pocket. This is a refund policy as well - not a "debt collection" (in whatever term you want to use instead) policy - therefore, this should not apply in this instance.

 

4.

 

Requiring the consumer to bear inappropriate risks

83. It may be unfair for a business to use wording that passes risks onto the consumer which the business is better able to bear. 

 

84. Indemnity clauses12 that protect the business in this way from its own negligence, or terms that transfer a risk to the consumer when the business can insure against it and the consumer cannot (or at least not cheaply and easily), are particularly liable to be considered unfair.

 

Requiring the consumer to make disadvantageous declarations

 

85. If a declaration is written into a contract this may, in practice, force consumers to make it even if it is not true. This is potentially unfair. Consumers may think it is just a formality, but could later be told that they have ‘signed away their right’ to argue that the facts were not as the declaration indicates.

 

86. For example, it is likely to be unfair for a consumer to be required to sign a declaration that states they have ‘read and understood the terms and conditions’. The purpose of declarations of this kind is to bind consumers to wording regardless of whether they have any real awareness of it. [reference: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/450410/Unfair_Terms_Explained.pdf]

 

I will counter claim the fees that I have already paid to the college due to the psychological injury caused by the situation. 

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Defence is due by next Monday 18th Oct 4.00pm. I will get back to you during this week.

 

Andy

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Calderdale College Defence..pdf

 

One defence ...insert the dates and name 

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

  • Like 2

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

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Thank you Andy.

 

Will get this filled in as soon as I am back from work today.

 

Regarding some of the details I mentioned above, is that something I may need to discuss during the actual case or most likely too technical in any case?

 

Thanks again.

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what you discussed above are the kind of things that MIGHT form part of your witness statement IF IF IF the claim ever gets that far..with that fantastic defence, if i were in their shoes...i'd be running away now...

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

An initial defence (response to their particular's) need not be too in-depth...you are simply laying out your stall and not revealing much argument. A valid CPR compliant defence simply responds to the points stated in the particulars by either admitting or denying...anything you do not respond to will be taken as an admittance by the court, hence the opening paragraph of your defence.

 

The defence puts the claimant to strict proof to be able to disclose said agreement/contract/credit.....therefore they can now decide if they have such a document and if they wish to proceed.

 

We shall see :-)

  • Like 1

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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