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    • Hi, this is my first time posting here, I hope Im posting at the right place. This is a long story... prepare for a long read! I hired a local painter & decorator (lets call him Painter R, R stands for rogue lol) back in late July to do the work in my house. The work includes painting of the ceiling and walls in the house, and also fixing a ceiling of the extension (where the old conservatory is, the previous owner made it into an extension. It was leaking at the extension, the ceiling was therefore taken down before for two months to let it dry up, and I needed someone to put it back). I asked "Painter R" what kind of paint is he going to use, he said he is using Crown paint. I asked him is it good paint, is it durable, resist to mold, resist to acid (I meant to say corrosive, but mind my English), and he said yes. My house is not a very small house, its a 4 bedroom house. The whole job was £4650, and I accepted the quote since I wasn't able to find anyone else at that time. The work began at early August, "Painter R" sent 2 boys to come and work on my house. The work was delayed for a bit, and eventually took two weeks, but everything "seemed" fine (since I am no expert, i didnt really know what to look at, as long as the painting seems ok, ceilings put back, I was "fine" with it. I did point out some small things out and they did fix them/they said they would but sometime they didnt and I had to tell them again), so I paid the full amount with direct debit when the job was almost all done (Painter R called me up to urge me to pay, stating that he will have to pay the guys "tomorrow", since he and his guys were pretty friendly so I did it, what a BIG MISTAKE I did).   There were issues with them, including I asked them to fit some of my blinds back, but they did not put any of them back, and also thrown away the brackets, at first he was trying to make me leave it, stating he doesnt remember me asking him to put any of them back. Luckily, I stated it in the text messages that I wanted some of them back, so he sent someone back to fit some of them. And made a deal with me that he is not charging me for an extra hole that needed to be filled, and a piece of wood that they put back (but was not very well done, another trader who, I found later on, agreed with me), so that they will not come back to fit one set of blinds back (which originally, fitting back all blinds is part of the job), however, I accepted it because the conversation was getting nowhere. Two weeks after the ceiling was put back, there were cracks and bulges appeared, I called them up, they came back to fix it, cracks still exist afterwards, so I called them up again, they came back to "fix" it again. This time, the guy used a lot of fillers, making the ceiling an uneven ceiling to try and cover up a crack, but still, the crack exists, even to this day. Worth mentioning is that, the paint that he mentioned they would use is Crown paint, but the paint that the guy left behind after fixing the ceiling, is just cheap paint that you can buy from B&Q. Now, here comes the real problem. Around 30th Sep I had cleaners to clean the house for me since my carpets are being fitting on 6th Oct, it was found that the paint can be washed off, just by gently rubbing it with water using fingers, and the paint could be seen dissolves on fingers! I called "Painter R" up, and was told that he was not in the country. "Painter R" finally called me back on 5th Oct, he said he never stated what kind of paint he would be using, and he said this is what he meant about wipe-able and non wipe-able paint, (in which I dont really remember he told me anything about it, but even if my memory is messing with me, that he really did talk to me about this and even, lets say, recorded it, since I am no expert/professionals at painting, I would think "wipe-able" meaning "the paint can be wiped with a damped cloth without any problem", and "non wipe-able" meaning  "the paint will not be wiped off by a damped cloth", who would expect the paint to be washed off just by water?!?!) He said things like, he has painted a hundred houses like that, its a standard paint to be used in all new builds in England, etc. He was very rude on the phone, stating he "even used a wipe-able paint for me in the kitchen and dining room and bathrooms already", but I found that the paint at the two small rooms (one bathroom, one toilet), can also be washed off easily. So he said he will send someone to paint those two rooms with the right paint that Saturday (9th Oct), nothing more. He said there is no way he is going to repaint the whole house for me. So I said to him "my carpet is being fitted on 6th, what if any paint dripped on them?". He said "Im not going to do anything after the carpet is fitted, or you will find the slightest thing on the carpet and charge me for it." The conversation went on, eventually he said, "Im not going to do anything after the carpet is fitted, you had your chance, good bye." and he hung me up! I called him back straightly, and he said, "So what do you want?" I stated I still needed those 2 rooms fixed, so he said he will send someone to paint those two rooms with the right paint that Saturday, and he wont guarantee anything about making my floor dirty. I accepted it. Then I called up citizensadvice, and asked them what to do, then followed some of their advice. I quickly found a trusted trader from a website recommended by citizensadvice, and talked to the trusted trader (Lets call him "Trusted trader A"). He was a kind gentleman who listened to my problem, and he quickly identified that the paint they used, was very likely cheap contract matt, which is not suitable for a redecoration job like in my house. He told me to use a silky, soft cloth damped with water, to wipe the walls left to right for around 10 times and see what happens, so I did, with a car washing cloth damped with just cold water, and the paint was being washed off everywhere (apart from Kitchen, Dining room, utility room and the main bathroom)! I told "Painter R", "I am already seeing the old blue paint on the bathroom wall just after 10 seconds of gently wiping with a damped cloth", he told me to "stop wiping the wall, now you are damaging it" I told "Painter R", "you did not apply primers before using that paint on top of it". He answered: "There's no such thing as primers for walls! You do not know what you are talking about I'm afraid"   On 6th Weds, "Painter R" said he has given the paint to his painter for Saturday morning (9th Oct) and the painter will be there at 9am. I asked "Painter R" what kind of paint he is using this time, he mentioned the name of a paint which "trusted trader A" said should erase the problem. I asked "Painter R" how many coats is he applying, he said only 1, I asked why not 2? (because 2 costs is always recommended) Guess how he answered me? He said "If I get anymore messages no one is coming on Saturday". So I stopped texting him as advised by "Trusted trader A". I also sent a formal complaint letter on 7th Oct to "Painter R" through email, stating Consumer Rights Act 2015 in the letter and mentioned that he can continue to perform the fixings that he is going to do that Saturday, also stated about what other things I wanted, asking him to reply me in 14 days. He never replied, and no one ever came on Saturday 9th Oct. I texted both "Painter R" and the worker who "Painter R" said would be coming, none of them ever replied. I havent been in touch with them since. I paid "Trusted trader A" to come and have a look at the house on the following Sunday morning 10th Oct, and he wrote me a report and gave me a quote (since I needed quote from at least 3 traders.) "Trusted trader A" pointed out 3 things in the report: 1: The walls prior to painting could have been a sheen finish and may have required a primer to stop the penetration occurring now, there are plenty of primers on the market  2: Preparation could be an issue, if the walls had been abraded off using grade 120 sandpaper to key the surface down prior to application of paints and a Vinyl or Durable Matt used  3: The product used looks and feels like a contract Matt product, which would normally be used on new plaster finish and would not be recommended for a redecoration product. Trusted trader A" Also stated that the quality of the work in some areas was not very good. I also found another trusted trader from another trusted website (Lets call him "Trusted trader B") "Trusted trader B" pointed out a lot of things that were not done right by "Painter R". He said similar things as "Trusted trader A", stating that the work was done poorly, preparation was not done properly. He stated that, some people would ask for contract matt to be used because its very cheap. However, for a 4650 job, it really shouldnt be contract matt unless you specified you wanted contract matt (which I obviously didnt). And the ceilings that was put back by "Painter R", was not done right, no metal corners were used, and hence why the corners dont look straight. I also found that all the ceilings in the house is painted with contract matt, and can be wiped off easily using a damped soft cloth. Im getting 2 quotes for the paintings of walls and ceilings from the two trusted trader. (as I was told to get quotes from 3 traders.) but for now, I am only able to get 1 quote for the fixing of the ceiling from "Trusted trader B". Following the advice from citizensadvice, I should be writing a letter with more serious manner 14 days after I sent the first. With the average of 3 quotes attached which I am still yet to be able to find. If the trader still do not reply me 10 days after that, Ill have to go for the small claim court.     After the long read... I would like to know, what else should I do next? Is it likely for me to win the small claim case? I really need some help and advises here.
    • Meet inspiring apprentice Samah and watch her video from Amazing Apprenticeships which focuses on her job role, experience and apprenticeship journey, and offers thoughtful […]View the full article
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Calderdale College/Brachers PAPLOC Now claimform - College Course Fee - Paid by DD until Forced to Leave by Calderdale College - want remaining years Fee.


ElDiego10
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Thank you for opening the thread again. 

 

Just received a letter after 4 months.

 

It is from STA - saying that I owe X amount and defaulted on paying the remaining DD's of X amount after withdrawing from the course and there is a indemnity stated full balance is due after 3 weeks on the course or more. 

 

It then goes onto say that they may pass it onto their solicitors to issue a claim.

 

I will get a pic of the letter as soon as I can.

 

I assume the normal route and advice on here is to ignore it and do nothing until a letter of claim comes my way?

 

Thanks in advance.

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Yep!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 1 month later...

So I just got another letter now that literally states "YOUR EARLIEST RESPONSE IS APPRECIATED" (at the top in green) and then, "Further to my previous letter, please call me now on X quoting reference number X - nothing else.

 

Same routine, file and ignore!

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  • 1 month later...

ive removed the claimform you'd left a few things showing

 

we dont need it

 

please complete this:

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to STA/Hadfield PAPLOC now Claimform - College Course Fee - Paid by DD until Forced to Leave by Calderdale College - want remaining years Fee.

Name of the Claimant ? Calderdale College

 

Date of issue – 16/09/21

 

Date  to acknowledge) = 04/10/21

date to submit defence = 18/10/21 

 

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? 

 

1.The Claimant claims the sum of £1042.50 in respect of tuition fees, details of which have been delivered to the Defendant.

 

2.Payment has not been made and the Claimant therefore claims

– 1. The sum of £1042.50 being as to the sum due.

2. Costs.

 

3.The Claimant has complied with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims dated this 15/09/2021.

 

4.The Claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at the rate of 8.00% a year from 30/05/2019 to 15/09/2021 on £1042.50 and also interest at the same rate up to the  date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.23.

 

What is the total value of the claim? £1394.44
 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes
 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? N/A

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Tuition Fees
 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After April 2007
 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? At the college – signed paper.
 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? No.
 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. STA International
 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Received letters from STA International chasing debt.
 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Yes
 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? No
 

Why did you cease payments? Was withdrawn by course tutor from the course.
 

What was the date of your last payment? 29 March 2019
 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? Yes
 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No

 

Edited by dx100uk
date corrections
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  • dx100uk changed the title to Calderdale College/Brachers PAPLOC Now claimform - College Course Fee - Paid by DD until Forced to Leave by Calderdale College - want remaining years Fee.

please note date corrections above.

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
[if mcol is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time]
.
 register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 then log in to the MCOL Website
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
[BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ]
click thru to the end
confirm and exit MCOL.

.

get a CPR  31:14  request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]
...
.[use our other CPR letter if the claim is for an OD or Telecom Debt]
.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/

.

 type your name ONLY
Do Not sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of ANY paperwork 
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

..............


 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thank you DX.

 

Quick question - it does mention a counter claim, is that something I would do now or later on ? I'm thinking of putting something in for the fees that I paid, plus compensation for time/distress/mental health etc? Or would you not recommend that? 

 

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No dont do that.

 

Just get aos/cpr done. Leave defence for now, you have 33 days as detailed above.

 

But dont missit!!

 

Dx

  • Thanks 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Do you have a reference/account number with the college ?

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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9 minutes ago, Andyorch said:

Do you have a reference/account number with the college ?

Couldn't remember it, so I just put down CalderdaleCollege - it did say on the side its whatever I wanted it to be (so hopefully not detrimental!)

 

I've done the CPR, will print it off and get it sent out tomorrow first class recorded delivery at work.

 

Thanks.

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You can make a start but not due until Monday 18th Oct...you have 33 days in total once you have stated you intend to defend all the claim.

 

Have you submitted your acknowledgment off service ? Must be done before Monday 4th Oct 4.00pm.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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Hi Andy,

 

Yes, have been on the website and submitted acknowledgement. 

 

So I'll probably go over some things this weekend, only thing is I'm not sure how much detail I should go into these! 

 

Is it a basic - point 1 I will counter with saying I was forced to remove from the course etc. Keeping it short and sweet? 

 

Thanks again! 

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Have a go and post your draft and then we can tweak it....plenty of time.

  • Thanks 1

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi, so I have some points regarding a defence based on my situation - I am not 100% sure exactly how to word this, I've never done a defence before.

 

Some points are:

 

1. I paid the fees out of my own pocket. This is a quid pro quo contract, something for something in return. In this case I was paying for a service until I was denied the service from the college. There was no loan or credit taken out from the college or any third party institution. 

 

2. The college was challenged on the indemnity form which specifically states that if "I withdraw from the course". In this instance, I did not withdraw from the course, I was forced to leave the course by the college. I had been paying up until I was withdrawn. (evidence is available in the form of an email here)

 

3. The college quoted a learner disciplinary policy: There is a policy that they have quoted which states "5. If a student is excluded or suspended through the Learner Disciplinary Policy a refund of fees or a credit note will not be issued." - note: There is no refund to be asked for or credit note to be issued - therefore this does not apply in this instance, as I was paying out of my own pocket. This is a refund policy as well - not a "debt collection" (in whatever term you want to use instead) policy - therefore, this should not apply in this instance.

 

4.

 

Requiring the consumer to bear inappropriate risks

83. It may be unfair for a business to use wording that passes risks onto the consumer which the business is better able to bear. 

 

84. Indemnity clauses12 that protect the business in this way from its own negligence, or terms that transfer a risk to the consumer when the business can insure against it and the consumer cannot (or at least not cheaply and easily), are particularly liable to be considered unfair.

 

Requiring the consumer to make disadvantageous declarations

 

85. If a declaration is written into a contract this may, in practice, force consumers to make it even if it is not true. This is potentially unfair. Consumers may think it is just a formality, but could later be told that they have ‘signed away their right’ to argue that the facts were not as the declaration indicates.

 

86. For example, it is likely to be unfair for a consumer to be required to sign a declaration that states they have ‘read and understood the terms and conditions’. The purpose of declarations of this kind is to bind consumers to wording regardless of whether they have any real awareness of it. [reference: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/450410/Unfair_Terms_Explained.pdf]

 

I will counter claim the fees that I have already paid to the college due to the psychological injury caused by the situation. 

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Defence is due by next Monday 18th Oct 4.00pm. I will get back to you during this week.

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

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Calderdale College Defence..pdf

 

One defence ...insert the dates and name 

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

  • Like 2

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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Thank you Andy.

 

Will get this filled in as soon as I am back from work today.

 

Regarding some of the details I mentioned above, is that something I may need to discuss during the actual case or most likely too technical in any case?

 

Thanks again.

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what you discussed above are the kind of things that MIGHT form part of your witness statement IF IF IF the claim ever gets that far..with that fantastic defence, if i were in their shoes...i'd be running away now...

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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An initial defence (response to their particular's) need not be too in-depth...you are simply laying out your stall and not revealing much argument. A valid CPR compliant defence simply responds to the points stated in the particulars by either admitting or denying...anything you do not respond to will be taken as an admittance by the court, hence the opening paragraph of your defence.

 

The defence puts the claimant to strict proof to be able to disclose said agreement/contract/credit.....therefore they can now decide if they have such a document and if they wish to proceed.

 

We shall see :-)

  • Like 1

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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Hi,

 

I'm just doing the defence on the site now, it asks - 

Do you dispute the claim because you have already paid it?

 

Do I say yes to this as I have paid whatever it was that was owed during the course or do i say no? 

Thanks

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