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    • I put Excel to strict proof that any contract can exist  *Their WS states it falls foul of the unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations 1999(UTCCR 1999). Claims the regulations don't apply     This is the link to Mr Booth case who won on the signage  Also the PCN is completely blurred and illegible in their WS evidence  Is this another point?    I have his his email regarding planning consent, Mr Booth had an email from the town planning officer stating that in his opinion the signage would require planning consent     http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2017/01/excel-parking-v-booth.html?m=1   He had a number of lines of defence, but focussed on the poor signage in the car park. Excel Parking used BW Legal who hired a local solicitor to turn up. She wasn't that well prepared and had not bothered to bring printed copies of the case. When the Judge asked her to refer to defence photographs provided of poor signage she used her phone. Mr Booth admitted that he never bought a ticket - but this was because he never saw the signage signage in the first place and so no contract was entered into. Excel provided pictures of the signage, date stamped for August 2015, but the event was in March 2015. They also provided at the last minute a witness statement from the landowner stating he gave authority, date stamped September 2015. The PCN they sent in their Witness statement was a photocopy and completely blurred and illegible. Mr Booth's arguments were that; 1. Poor signage - there were "staff only" parking signs on the building wall next to where he parked - he questioned the claimant's right to sue someone parked against these bays 2. He questioned their authority to act on behalf of the landlord 3. He questioned whether the signage had planning consent. The Judge followed this through with Excel's representative: "Did they have a contract which said these bays were exempt or not exempt from Excel issuing tickets on the vehicles parked? As Excel had not bothered to supply a copy of the actual contract, the solicitor could not confirm either way. Regarding. planning consent, Mr Booth had an email from the town planning officer stating that in his opinion the signage would require planning consent, and that there was no planning application on file. The judge said if Mr Booth had only brought this point up he may have found differently. The judge clearly had doubts about the signs where any reasonable person would think the same and that the "staff only" signs would not lead them to think there was a requirement to buy a ticket. He took a recess for 10 mins then made his judgment. Claim refused - the parking signs cause confusion , and there was prof there was a contract which allowed the charges claimed. He went on to state that he was staggered that serial claims companies like Excel do not take a photo of the signs at the time of erection. Why do they wait until litigation to take photos. There was no evidence that the signs were there at all on the date.
    • Thanks so much!    1. on planning permission my WS says: The signs did not have planning permission under the Town and County planning.  I have an email stating there was no planning permission from the council. The signs do not fall under deemed consent.  * Their WS says they do not need planning permission by being an approved operator of the trade association, and it is not for the  county court to determine planning permission.   2. Excel are trying to say I’m dishonest.  Their WS states my defence appears to be cut and pasted from websites relating to parking whose aim is to assist motorists on contesting PCN's. Large portions are non sensical and irrelevant to the claim   This is Unacceptable as the defendant has signed a statement of truth whilst clearly not being the defendants knowledge    Q Any comments?      Their WS states that I alleged I received no correspondence, and the onus is on the driver to update DVLA. I did update DVLA, but I moved numerous times due to domestic abuse. This was in my set aside and part of why it was granted. Evidence was provided at that time. Q Is this going to come up again?    *Also they question how I would be able to comment on the signs if I’m not the driver of the vehicle, as she would not have first hand knowledge, therefore it is the claimants position that she is being disingenuous.    I state that photos will be provided in my bundle. I actually haven’t submitted any but I do also know somebody who had PCN from the same carpark,   He gave me all his evidence etc, Mr Booth and he won his case. I linked to the parking pranksters article on it.  Q So is it ok to use such websites and to use photos from someone else?    Thanks 
    • Not anymore now that the right have manipulated voters into voting for a conservative dictatorship.   All of what you've said is just another worrying aspect of what the future holds 
    • Just like all the rubbish spouted over the past 4 years, would, would, would.  What you really mean is COULD.    
    • You're ignoring the most difficult issue in a trade agreement. It's not the tariffs or the lack of them  which is the tough part to reslove but the regulatory standards of the goods to be imported & exported that needs to be decided.   For example the EU banned the import of chlorine washed chicken since 1997 which of course hurts the US, and who are going to be very keen to include it in any new agreement with the UK and will use it to barter prospective concessions in exchange . As a nation we're going to first have to decided whether that is acceptable or not and that alone will be difficult enough to resolve. And that's just one product.   This has all the makings of a category 5 $h1t storm that will last an eternity. 
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peach20

Retrospective charges for design and installation

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This is in relation to another post regarding stair work caried out by a steel fabricator.

 

We have paid the fabricator in full for the entire staircase although the work is far from complete.  The fabricator is asking for additional money for work that has already been undertaken.  He is asking for an additional £1500 for design drawings and an additional £2500 for additional installation costs, plus other costs in relation to increases in material costs.  In no case have we made aware there would be any additional cost and we did not agree to any additional cost.  However, he is saying he will not progress with any work or documentation until the bill is settled.

 

My question is - is there anything in my consumer rights that says I must be made aware of costs and cannot be retrospectively charged?  I am aware of clauses regarding costs must be reasonable, or are these really one and the same?

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Hi.

 

Did you have an estimate for the staircase before you went ahead with the work?

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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We had an agreed cost.

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What I suppose I'm asking is if you had a separate written estimate for the staircase or was it all lumped in with the builder's estimate please?

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, honeybee13 said:

What I suppose I'm asking is if you had a separate written estimate for the staircase or was it all lumped in with the builder's estimate please?

 

HB

We have a separate / specific specification and cost for the stairs from the stair fabricator.  It is not lumped in with broader works.

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Did anything change, design, significant delay on your part etc?

 

roughly as a percentage what do the extras come in at?

 

Was he always going to design and have them approved as part of the project?

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Nothing changed in the design.

 

In total, the extras are c.25% on top of the agreed cost.  About 5% of this is due to delays - increased labour and material prices.  This is tolerable as there was a delay of 12 months from paying to installing.

 

The other 20% is for additional costs due to:

  • his cost increasing because he moved premises
  • installation difficulties (although, nothing changed from spec or areas being installed in)
  • other random reasons that have no bearing on reality

 

 

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23 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

What I suppose I'm asking is if you had a separate written estimate for the staircase or was it all lumped in with the builder's estimate please?

 

HB

We have a separate / specific specification and cost for the stairs from the stair fabricator.  It is not lumped in with broader works.

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Does anybody know of there is a need or right to have been given a heads up of possible price increases before work is conducted?

 

We have paid the full agreed installation cost but have only received 70% of the agreed work to date. We are now being asked to pay an extra 25% on top of the agreed amount for the work that is complete (so, we will have paid 125% for 70% work).  This extra has never been requested or discussed.  But, they are saying they will not return or finish work until the new balance is settled (new balance being the requested extra to cover the work already completed).  Work has now stopped until the (unagreed, retrisoectuve) increases is paid.

 

Surely we should have been told that there would be an increase before work starts and before getting into what is basically now a hostage situation.

 

Is there any legislation we should refer to when discussing this with the installer?  Or does this fall under the legislation that says costs must be reasonable and it is unreasonable to request retrospective payments with no prior warning?

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Yes you are exactly in a hostage situation.

As all this exchange being carried out in writing or is it on the telephone?

It seems to me that you have only two options:
one is to get quotes from someone else to complete the work, have the work completed by them and then to sue your existing contractor for the money.
The other is to simply get the work underway and finished so pay the installer that make it clear that you are really happy about it because it is not what was agreed in the contract that you are going ahead simply because you feel that you have no other choice because clearly you can't have your premises with only half the job done.
Once the job is done then sue the installer. That seems to me that you will probably be suing for less than £10,000 which means it can stain the small claims court.

I'm not too sure why you're asking what your rights are. It seems to me that you are dealing with a man or a company that is not interested in your rights. He is set out his terms and he is going to object to any variation.


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so what work hwev they done so far?

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1 hour ago, ericsbrother said:

so what work hwev they done so far?

 

They have installed the main structure (steel) and roughly installed the balastrades.  They still need to clad the treads in timber, add hand rails and finish the glass.

 

Quote

As all this exchange being carried out in writing or is it on the telephone?

 

Mostly by email.

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Hi - just following up on my question. 

 

If one has a specification and agreed price for some work and at the end is told there is extra to pay for whatever reason, is there anything that says you need to be told in advance?  I assume there must be, otherwise people will just charge whatever they want.

 

Or, is this all covered in section 51?

Quote

51 Reasonable price to be paid for a service
1 This section applies to a contract to supply a service if—

(a) the consumer has not paid a price or other consideration for the service,
(b) the contract does not expressly fix a price or other consideration, and does not say how it is to be fixed, and as included in the contract does not fix a price or other consideration either.
2 In that case the contract is to be treated as including a term that the consumer must pay a reasonable price for the service, and no more.

 

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