NE parking 2 windscreen PCNs for same offence - outside bay - Hornby Road Blackpool

[Mick Mangle]

We paid to park in Hornby Road carpark, the nearside front wheel was on the white line, not over. 

 

We parked on Sunday 20th October and did not return to the car until today, 23rd October.

 

We have two tickets issued by NE parking for the same offence, issued on the 21st and 22nd respectively.

 

How do we proceed?

Can they charge twice for the same offence?

 

Please help thank you.

 

My wife is blaming me.

[dx100uk]

any line markings on private land are purely tarmac graffiti.

 

I would bet if you were to go around and take clear photos of ALL the signs there

not one says anything about parking within any lines.

 

please complete this for each PCN

 

 

and scan up each ticket to one multipage PDF please

read upload

 

 

 

 

[lookinforinfo]

I wouldn't lose any sleep over either of their tickets.

 

The first thing is not to appeal.

They have to comply with the Protections of Freedom Act which if they don't, make it more difficult for them to make any progress against you.

 

The first thing is to complete the form on post 3 to see if they have got anything right so far.

Then we would like to see photos of their signs in the car park-taken closely enough so that we can read them.

 

The sign at the entrance is important as are any signs within the car park that are different from the entrance sign and any other sign that there may be there.

 

In addition a photo of the payment meter if there is one so we can see what trems and conditions are on there and if they coincide with the entrance sign. 

 

Within the next month or so you should receive two Notices to Keeper which we would like to see and confirm whether they have any chance of them being able to form a contract with you.

 

If they don't, and most parking companies fail miserably at this, then you owe them nothing.

 

It would help if you please scanned in on of the windscreen notices you already have.

[Mick Mangle]

From what I have read about this organisation, they are a bit fast and loose with their ticketing policy, I do not know if they belong to an accredited body.  There was a blue "park mark" sign also that seemed to suggest they were a "quality" carpark whatever that means.

[ericsbrother]

their terms should say that any breach applies to a 24 hour period so if for example paid to eb there for 3 days then there can only be one parking event so at best only 1 breach.

We will need to see the siganeg and conditions on the parking meter to gve a better response but agree, sit on your hands until you get the NTK through the post and tell us when that arrives

[Mick Mangle]

Finally managed to organise a pdf.

This is the sign at the carpark

 

Sorry its taken so long

park.pdf

[ericsbrother]

they refer to a 24 hour period but that doesnt mean it is the same as a calendar day so they have "double dipped" with their ticketing.

 

now you wait to see if you get 2 NTK's in the allowed time and then ask the DVLA who has applied for your keeper detaisl and when ad for what reason.

 

the signs says parked fully within the confines of a marked bay.

So is the line a separate bay for very thin cars or is it part of a bay?

You werent over the line so not outside a bay and that gives a default of being within it.

 

I also asked for images of the payment machine and associated blurb but you havent supplied this.

the terms on the machine ARE the contract, not the signs unless the wording is identical and it wot be because there is no tariff on the signage.

 

When we request or suggest something please read it very carefully as precision is vital in fighting these unfair charges.

You will now have to go back and take more pictures.

 

Whilst you are getting some of the parking meter please take a picture of the entrance to the land from the public highway even if there is no signage there.

 

We want to see what a motorist turning in would see.

Google has a plethora of signs visible so confusion may be your friend here as well

[Mick Mangle]

I cannot send any more pictures as I live in Norfolk, and the carpark in question is in Blackpool, Hornby Road to be precise so if anyone else who is local can help out I would be much obliged.  Would the information you are looking for be on the ticket itself?

[ericsbrother]

we want to compare the blurb on the signs and meter with what their claim you did wrong.

 

Now if there is wording on the payment machine that differs from the signs then it is the payment meter that determines the contract, not the signs

 

so if there is no mention of how long 24 hours is as far as the meter goes then it is what you want it to be when accepting the offer and feeding the machine.

 

They dont get to decide later

[Mick Mangle]

Hi we have just received the Notice to Keeper, this is the first I assume there will be another. Your consideration will be much appreciated, thank you 

 

Michael

 

[Mick Mangle]

Here are the parking tickets themselves, received second Notice To Keeper.

 

As far as any other photo evidence I live in Norfolk and therefore too far away from Blackpool to provide the photos asked for, sorry.

 

I have shown the evening NTK as it shows in the bottom left image that the offside front wheel was on the line not over. 

Also on the tickets themselves "N/A" has been entered in the fields marked "Date vehicle was first seen in contravention " and "Time vehicle first seen in contravention". 

 

Surely for the second ticket this should have information entered, or am I nitpicking?

 

I want to make it clear the vehicle was not moved as can be seen by both NTK's . 

 

dosc1.pdf

[dx100uk]

is it not a good idea to remove their ref/PCN No.from each of your pages?

they could easily look that up after seeing it here in your images and now know it's you we are helping?

 

could you also please take the time and trouble to fill in our questionnaire in post 3 [repeated ahgain below

 

this will give us all the information the experts require in one easily understood post to properly be able to help you rather than darting back and forth to find it.

 

 

 

 

 

I have removed the ref/pcn no's for you now.

 

dx

 

[Mick Mangle]

1 The date of infringement?   21/10/2019 

 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?] No

 

have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days]

what date is on it  20/11/2019

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? Yes

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?]  No

 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK, N/A

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances]

 

5 Who is the parking company? NE Parking Ltd

 

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park?Hornby Road Carpark Blackpool FY1 4QP

 

We have received two NTK's for the same offence I will repeat the above process, below:

 

1 The date of infringement?  22/10/2019

 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?]  No

 

have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days]

what date is on it 21/11/2019

 

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence?  Yes

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?]  No

 

5 Who is the parking company? Ne Parking Ltd

 

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park?  Hornby Road Carpark Blackpool FY1 4QP

 

The infringement is the same as the car was parked, as shown, and only moved a few days later when we left to return home.

[ericsbrother]

can you post up the NTK with your personal details and any reference numbers/batcodes ect redacted?

they have to get the wording right or they fail to create a liability

[Mick Mangle]

see post 11 dosc1

do you want the other one?

 

[dx100uk]

yes please

I have removed your upload as you've left ref numbers showing as my last post states

can we have the 2nd NTK but properly redacted

 

i'e what we have not seen to date in post 11 upload docs1

[Mick Mangle]

This is everything I have.

everythingpark.pdf

[ericsbrother]

OK, 

they are saying that they use the IPC appeals procedure but they dont have the ATA logo on thier NTK or on any of the signs I have seen of theirs. They are not currently members of the BPA .

 

The images show the vehicle is on the line not over it so as ther paint is white for the line and the cross hatching is yellow it is obviously part of the marked bay so no breach of that condition. If the intention was that the solid line was out of bounds it would be yellow.

 

No indication on the signage that they belong to any ATA so that leads to the question as to why the DVLA are allowing them to access your keeper details.

 

I would be asking the DVLA who has accessed your details and for what reason.

they will try and avoid the question but persist even if you get a stock respnse for the second bit.

there is a particular address you need to write to, they wont accept an email or phone request.

 

[Mick Mangle]

That sounds great, would these be the type of arguments I could use in court.  What is the DVLA address you allude to? Is it the stock address in Swansea?

[Mick Mangle]

 

This is a draft of the letter to the DVLA is this sufficient? 

Have not sent it yet.

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

 I have recently received two “Notice to Keeper” documents from NE Parking. 

They have applied to you for my personal details, there is no indication that they belong to any professional body or ATA.

There is no evidence they belong to the British Parking Association, so how have they been able to access my keeper details?

 

Please advice who has applied for my keeper details, and what was the reason they gave. 

It seems to me that the DVLA has given my details, to a private person upon request, and if I am not satisfied with your response I will have no other recourse but to consider making an official complaint.

[ericsbrother]

no

You were told what to put,

you request to know who has accessed your data,

when and what was the stated purpose.

that is all.

 

If the intention was to put more then the advice would have included it.

 

No one told you to write  about the BPA membership nor suugest that there may be naughtiness by a company.

 

Also you let them respond and then use the answer to determine what you do after that.

Dont threaten them with a complaint or you wil get a photocopy of a letter that is 10 years old and of no use.

 

breaches of the GDPR are of little consequence if you are being sued as it wont change the contractual relationship between them and you. It is a separate issue, as any post covering the subject make clear.

 

You must do your research on anything you are going to say

[Mick Mangle]

Right ok, thanks for that, I will change the letter as stated.

[Mick Mangle]

Please take the above off as I forgot to redact thank you.

nepark01.pdf

 

Who are the IPC? Are they an accredited trade body? What is our next move?

[dx100uk]

not a letter of claim

safe to ignore

 

there are 1000's of threads in this same forum yours is in.

 

suggest you use the time between hamster bedding to get upto speed.

 

ipc is run by the same 2 wonderful solicitors from gladstones

 

dx

[Mick Mangle]

what do you mean "hamster bedding"?