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Themalibukid

Armtrac Security Services/KBT/BW PCN Claimform - Sandy Acre carpark in Hayle, Cornwall **WON**

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My wife has directed me to post on this thread as I have just successfully won against these charlatans

 

My hearing date was all set at my local court for 31st October 2019

all defence papers were filed and served and frankly I was really looking forward to it!


This morning I received a letter from BW legal stating in a one line response that I was to take this letter as a notice of discontinuance whereby the claimant KBT (armtrac) discontinues all of the claim.


I am beyond disappointed that I didn’t get my chance to see these idiots across a desk!
And that’s it I don’t appear to be able to take this further?


I now realise I should of had the courage of my convictions and faith in the advice of others to issue a counterclaim!
What I have now in my possession is a file of information which would be Gold-dust to the next person in my position!


I feel like I would be able to get some sort of closure if I could pass some of this wisdom on but there are many posters here already and every case is different in its own way


The key points in my defence were as follows and useful to anyone ‘caught’ at Sandy Acres.


Keep the original parking ticket you purchased and send a copy to KBT with a covering letter ASAP

do not identify the driver at any stage of the process!!!! 


The blue sign uses the word penalty which is contrary to the IPC codes of practice 


The red and white sign has a café open sign in front of it  which obscures it from the drivers view both available to download via Google maps


Check the date you receive NTK mine was 71 days


Do an SAR and you will get back the pictures of the alleged offence

in my case they were of such poor quality you could not tell which way up the ticket was in the photo and in no image they held was there a picture showing the ticket and the vehicle numberplate. They offered no other evidence.


Pretty soon you will see the money is being sought escalate until they no longer match the figure on the NTK even if it is sent within 56 days
When you see a breakdown of costs for the money being sought it will ultimately include legal costs, typically £60 that the solicitor knows cannot be recovered in Small Claims Court.

Personally I am now considering reporting BW legal to the law society or solicitors ombudsman for being party to a process which is fundamentally dishonest, an abuse of process, and a complete waste of court resources?

 

i am happy to help anyone who needs assistance but rest assured that their case against you relies on you caving in and paying, they have no plan B but will try and make you doubt your ability to defend yourself.

 

Dont worry about small claims Court, it isn’t crown court, just an office with 3 desks and certainly less stressful than a job interview or meeting with the bank and less at stake.

 

I got to one week from my court date and they gave up!

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I have created your own topic for this as its import to have it own one

but placed a link on the thread you posted on.

 

you should never counterclaim that exposes you to further cost and rarely succeeds esp if they disc' the claim

always best to state in a sep letter you will be seeking costs esp loss of days wages at £90 which most judges allow.

 

as for an sar, its p'haps always better to issue a cpr 31:14 too or in replacement of, an sar.

 

well done on your important win


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Thanks I’m happy to put something back !

I didn’t have the courage of my convictions to counter claim even though I was really quite proud of the thoroughness of my court bundle !

i really wanted the opportunity to get into the detail with the judge and felt quite cheated when it ended, but of course I realised that they had just moved on to their next victim 

will watch this space 👍

 

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if you wish to put up everything like 

 

your defence

claimants WS

defendants WS

 

then im sure those here now and future victims will find it of value

 

if you read upload carefully

you'll see its best to upload each as a separate multipage PDF

but ofcourse you'll have to redact each page as a jpg picture 1st before merging each to the relevant multipage pdf .

 

dx

 


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

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I am of course happy to post any of the documentation I possess as it will no doubt help others but out of context they only serve to be confusing until you get to that stage in the process I think.

 

Right let’s start at the beginning with Armtrac:

once they have stuck a PCN on your car you have unwittingly embarked on a long and weary process ( my journey started August 2017 and ended in October 2019).

 

You need to decide at the outset whether you are a payer or want to stand up for yourself.

 

if you pay these people (who are a couple of ex clampers with some headed paper and a typewriter ) then you are doing yourself a dis service and anyone coming after you.

 

if you decide to stand firm then by all means use the expertise in the forums but redact anything from your posts which could identify you or your case or your vehicle, guess what the Armtrac read these posts too 👋

 

All their documentation is carefully worded as a parking charge notice as the industry guidelines they are supposed to adhere to specifically prevent use of words like penalty or fine. See IPC guidelines section 11.2 I think (passing yourselves off as the authorities)

 

dont think for one one second that the correspondence you have received is unique to you as I have received every one of Armtrac’s invitations to pay

 

Nobody with any legal brain whatsoever even reads what you write until much later in the process.

 

when you receive the Notice to keeper this means they have failed to identify the driver KEEP IT THIS WAY !

 

You must engage with the Claimant though as cases that have failed are because the defendant did not engage !

 

this is your opportunity to give the judge something to work with !

 

i will post my engagement letter on my thread later !

 

from the point NTK is issued the law states that the amount claimed by the Claimant must match the amount on the NTK, unfortunately they are limited in their ability to put the frightners on you unless this figure is seen to go up.

 

The figure won’t go above £250 though, if it does they have to pay more to start a small claims Court claim against you.

most claims will top out at about £247, mine did !

 

the reason is that to put you through all this worry and self doubt the maximum it will cost them £25 !!!

 

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Well done.

The current figure for the Court fee of £25 is now £300.

 

What leads you to think that no one with a legal brain looks at one's arguments till later in the process.

I am sure that there will be many motorists who bluster and threaten at first, but eventually pay up which would lead the parking companies to go to the bitter end even though legal minds might well have read every letter received, only at the last stage might they advise dropping a particular case.

 

Their actions would seem to confirm your suspicions but may not be correct.

 

It will be interesting to see what it was in your defence that made them drop the case with a week still to go.

 

They often go to the wire since some motorists do not turn up in Court on the day.

Perhaps it was the realisation that they had used the word "penalty" or something else you claimed that they did not want challenged in Court.

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Hi

in no particular order

the reason I think that no legal brain is involved in the process until much later is that I was told on another forum these are laughingly referred to as roboclaim on another forum.

 

I was told what the next letter in the sequence would be before it arrived

to test the theory that I was conversing with a computer in December 2017 I sent them my joke response on a Christmas card  and got the predicted reply.

 

Finally and most significantly I pointed out that they had exceeded the 56 days they are allowed to serve the NTK over a year before BW Legal binned it

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Well done Themalibukid

 

Im writing a witness statement tonight, any chance of a copy of yours asap ?

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Yes no problem remember to do a witness statement for your partner or anyone else that was there if you intend to rely on their evidence or wish them to be able to speak at a hearing 

will be posted within the hour

cheers

 

 

P.S. witness statement.pdf

 

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38 minutes ago, Themalibukid said:

 

P.S. witness statement. pdf

 

 

Oops.  Thanks for trying. 

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just drop an drag it to the box at the bottom

but it must be less than 4.8Mb.

 

dx

 


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

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Many Many Thanks !  And congratulations ! 

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images/posts removed
.
please do not post jpg picture images directly to a post
.
read upload and redact in jpg then convert using on of the listed websites there to convert to one multipage pdf only

.
that way only logged-in,registered and approved caggers are the only ones that can download and see them
.
else anyone can see them caggers or not.dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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12 minutes ago, Themalibukid said:

Thanks

i can’t do it properly from here need my pc not my phone

Please dont worry now.

 

Ive read everything you posted, it was very useful !  Thank you !   😀

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:rockon:

 

thanks for that

invaluable  to cag.

 

dx

 


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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Excellent clear and concise with references in place.


We could do with some help from you.

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Armtrak are well known in the local papers in that part of the world for their duff equipment and their willingness to start court proceedings but drop out at the last moment at any hearing that isnt in their back yard.

 

As you have noted ther NTK's are usually out of time and complete gibberish as far as the protocols of the POFA go .

 

Now in your case, as you had engaged with thenm all of the way the latter points dont really come into the equation but you made it clear that you paid and their claim, if against the keeper is limited to the amount specified on the NTK.

 

i would advise anyone who gets a demand from these bandits to be careful what they say if they do appeal the charge as one can easily talk yourself out of the protectiosn  the pOFA give you. what that engagement cannot do is create a liablity where none exists because they have failed to use the correct words in their demand and they, like CEL are too lazy arrogant and stupid to get that right.

 

I'm glad they dropped the claim and I'm sure you would have won but probably not for the reasons you think were top of the list.

That is why it is important to chuck the kitchen sink in as well when writing up your evidence

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Thanks for your summary ericsbrother 👍

 

i am not putting myself forward as any kind of expert in this but I would say I’m a seasoned veteran now.

 

my determination to resist never really diminished but that was due to the forum people cajoling me when I was thinking of giving up.

 

the 2 witness statements are really just a covering letter and of little help without knowing what the references are,

photos:

1 blue sign with the word penalty 

2 white sign part hid by cafe sign

3 reflected image showing their man using a mobile phone camera

4 their photo of the contravention showing no legible detail

 

docs:

1 witness statement 

2a NTK

2b excerpt from CPR stipulating 56 days

2c &d excerpts from CPR saying can’t claim more than figure on NTK

3 copy of ticket

4a initial letter to armtrac following NTK

4b copy of signed receipt 

5 second witness statement 

6 excerpt from IPC codes of practice 

7 BW Legal claim breakdown 

 

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Thanks for the extra summary.

 

Now for anyone getting a screen ticket the firts things to look out for are clear identification of the supposed breach and whther it matches a condition with the same number on ther signs and whether the location is correctly identified. VS adn Excel like to put location cde 1234 rather than smiths shopping centre rear car park for example. The manual ticketing is getting rarer amongst IPC members though as it makes their brains hurt.

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I’m going to post a redacted letter onto this thread over the next few days.

it is the last letter I received from BW Legal before the notice of discontinuance of claim.

 

in it they go through my defence point by point in an attempt to counter it,

they don’t mention the >56 days or the two warning sign contraventions

however it would be interesting to see someone with the knowledge go through it point by point as that is what I was hoping the judge would do

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usual stuff, they deliberately miss the point on a couple of the arguments and also state that they did this or that when it is not for them to act on these points but their client and clearly their client wasnt going to risk a court appearance to answer these points.

It also means they didnt have to explain how they managed to misunderstand the law because as the worlds second smartest lawyers they know better than to tell lies in the hope you fall for it and cave in.

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