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    • I am being harrangued for a debt I don't owe whilst in hardship by EDF, who was given this household's supply by OFGEM when it closed down several small companies in 2019. Unbelievably, this is happening during cold months and a full strict lockdown!   I consider that this is a crime on several counts: 1) fraud by nondisclosure, as per 2006 act: that free energy exists and that patents have been suppressed to help us use it, thus giving the illusion that energy can only be supplied by for profit companies (the same is true of water), when it is a naturally occurring, God-given free resource which has been harnessed and sold back to us, and it's hard to avoid or find alternatives 2) the energy industry is a form of modern slavery as per 2015 act, holding us in lifelong custom: something we need, can't easily find an alternative from or not use. This supplier took over without consent or knowledge or warning and will not relinquish me without paying them; but the amount grows as they continue our abusive relationship 3) as utility acts such as the 1989 and 1990 clash with inalienable natural Common Law and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights of 1948 and various other laws, some to be listed anon, that the so-called powers given to energy companies to gain money and bully are not lawful 4) removal of energy takes our rights (as in the UDHR) to eat, wash, be warm, work, communicate, and have leisure and enjoyment. Particularly, it can cut those off who rely on the internet and battery operated phones, thus making them vulnerable, and causing a snowball effect 5) cutting off, or the fear and bullying around doing so and 'recovering debts', causes mental and physical suffering, as well as great inconvenience and loss. a) These are recoupable in monetary terms of the claimant (ie customer's) choosing b) this amounts to constructive demise or manslaughter  - including attempt and conspiracy to commit this serious crime (attempt and conspiracy apply for all the others below) 6) asking for money in a way which is upsetting, intimidating or distressing is another criminal offence under the Prevention From Harassment act of 1997 - and most debt demands fulfil this, and are not incidental, but designed to cause fear in the way they are worded, in the design of the 'red, urgent' envelopes, in the vagueness of who and where the collector is, offering a generic phone number; bluffing about their powers and a warrant; coming to the door with hand delivered envelopes to embarass in front of household members and neighbours; and the way they appear at your door to actually collect or tamper with supply 7) There is Aggravated Trespass under the criminal justice and public order act of 1994, where if you have given written notice that implied access to your property (I include remotely, in the case of smart meters), to enter the premises (including outside areas) without written permission and especially with ill-intent, is a further summary, ie imprisionable offence 8) this is also exhortion and blackmail 9) it is an aggressive sales technique, no different from drugs barons and loan sharks 10) a prepayment meter is just another way of forcing debt repayment, and as the customer doesn't set the amount, if they do not have resources they are still left without power and heat 11) this is closely related to the data and surveillance and weaponised energy of 5G via smart meters, and so this is a) espionage b) mass experimentation under the Nuremburg code of 1948 c) biowarfare 12) it is also breaking and entering, if they force or pick locks 13) any physical abuse has other crimes - such as battery, grevious bodily harm, assault 14) lying or tricking to gain entry is also a crime 15) their involving your neighbours breaks confidentiality, such as asking about you, getting them to let them in. This is against their industry code and 16) during lockdowns and other restrictions related to covid, they break the coronavirus act 2020. Utility workers are only classed as keyworkers when they are keeping a supply running and safe. They are not permitted to work or travel to harass and cut off - this is especially reprehensible during an extended pandemic when so many are anxious have weakened immunity, and financial difficulties. When most of us are not meant to see loved ones, especially indoors 17) if the operatives are masked - this includes a locksmith or any enforcement with them - this heightens the offence as, despite covid guidance, it is done with criminal intent and knowingly a) makes them look sinister, thus adding to fear of the customer b) hides their identity and obfuscates justice 18) any persons involved, including administrators and the judge who created any warrant 19) to exaggerate one's legal powers is also an offence   Furthermore, utility companies send out - and sell out - debts and debt collectors who have no knowledge of the communications between the company and the customer; such as whether they are misbilled, or even the right person. I also believe that poor service, such as being ignored or bullied, means a rebate on the 'bill'.   The ombudsman have consistently exacerbated and failed to put right, and OFGEM's policies have added to this too.   We need to take the power back into our hands; to choose our energy source and provider; to harness free, safe energy.   I am putting EDF staff on notice for all these.   Has anyone else had any similar trouble for this, especially in the last year? I would like to know the extent of the problem   I am considering class action. An expression of interest in no way commits you, especially financially.   You may be interested in my piece at https://elspethr.wordpress.com/2020/08/22/expulsion-from-the-garden-its-time-we-took-our-energy-back/, via which you can get in touch  
    • No, there is no ombudsman for this kind of thing. It's a huge industry with a lack of regulation which is why it broadly speaking does what it wants without a lot of regard for customers. You haven't addressed the question which I put to you in my last post.
    • Hi - email submitted.   After some sleep (4am wake up yesterday - loooong day) I redrafted email to be a bit more readable whilst clearly stating the points above but being less aggressive/rude 😳    Being very tired I briefly considered just getting the repair and compensation (if they offered) but after some sleep and in the light of day I saw some further damage to the piping (minor, but there) on the same bit of arm so promptly hit send on my email! My sister also told me of her friend who had a whole host of problems trying to get damage on delivery fixed so I’m definitely not going down that road. I’m going for a replacement.    Will update as soon as I hear anything.   Thanks
    • DX - regarding the t&c- do you mean the bit at the very bottom that says "this agreement incorporates t&c set out in the long form version" ?   ill take this up with them in mediation, got nothing to lose   Just so i understand, that signed agreement isnt actually the t&c ? that should be included too? im looking online for the actual govt guidance, but the OFT has shut down and the consumer regualtion guidance doesnt actually mention t&c as far as i can see
    • Thanks Andy. The judge made a big deal about the costs and spend a good 15-20 minutes making sure they had covered everything. 
  • Our picks

    • I sent in the bailiffs to the BBC. They collected £350. It made me smile.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
      • 33 replies

Not fit for Purpose Court action


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Hi 

 

My son purchased a car from a ltd company (Only one emploee him) and it was returned to them as it was not fit for purpose.

It was returned within the 30day period required.

 

We filled in court form N1 to seek redress for the money my son paid him.

However the documents have come back from court as we put too many addresses for him as we had his private addresses too (5)

 

I've spoken to the court and the advice given is as clear as mud.

 

So choices of action available as advised by the court is....

Take action out against the company

or

as him personally.

 

We were considering taking action out against him personally because he seems to have a habit of opening and closing companies

But will he be able to squirm out of it?

 

If we take the action out against the company will he be able to close the company and again my son does not get his money back.

 

My son saved every penny for 2 years to be able to afford a car AND the extortionate insurance they have to pay nowadays 

The car was purchased the day after he passed his test 😢

Now he has no vehicle and no way of purchasing a new one.

 

This man has the cheek to try and charge my son for storing the car on his lot (when the vehicle V5 is in the companies name again)

 

Any advise will really be appreciated as I have to get these forms returned today as this is stressing us both out and I have to send these back to the court today.

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Defendant details
A defendant is the person or organisation that the claim will be issued against (i.e. the party who owes you the money).
You should consider the following:


a) Number of Defendants
There can be up to two defendants for claims issued via MCOL – for claims against more than two defendants you should contact the County Court Money Claim Centre. If you want to issue a claim with two defendants you will need to click the ‘Add a 2nd defendant’ button.

 

Please note
that each individual should be listed as a separate defendant. For example, if you were issuing a claim against a husband and wife, they need to be listed separately as the first and second defendant and not on one line as “Mr and Mrs”.


b) Choosing the Defendant(s)


Each defendant can be one person or an organisation (such as a limited company). Remember, amendments after issuing the claim can be time consuming and may incur
additional fees, so you should consider carefully who is responsible for the debt when adding a defendant(s). Please note, court staff are not legally trained and therefore cannot
tell you who the defendant(s) should be. If you are unsure who to claim against you should seek legal advice.


You should make sure the information you provide is accurate and complete. For any individual defendants you should make sure that you include their forename and family name and that you have spelt their name correctly.


For organisations, you should make sure you have the full, registered name of the company. Please be aware there may be several companies with similar names therefore if the name you provide is incorrect you could inadvertently issue a claim against the wrong company. Please be aware if you use the incorrect name it may not be possible to register judgments or take enforcement action at the later stages of the claim.

 

Providing a valid address for each Defendant


You need to provide a full address within England and Wales for each defendant, including the post code. This is known as their service address. MCOL does not have
jurisdiction outside England and Wales, claims issued to addresses outside England and Wales will be invalid.


 if the defendant is an individual the claim must be served to their usual or last known
residential address
 if the defendant is an individual using a trading alias then the claim may be served to
their usual or last known residential address or their place of business
 if the defendant is an organisation then the claim may be served to their registered
office or to the address where you have been dealing with them
Further information on choosing the address for service correctly can be found in the Civil
Procedure Rules 6.9. An online version of the Civil Procedure Rules can be found at:
http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/.

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Andy

 

My son

did not send a letter of intended court proceedings

Is this going to be an issue with the courts?

 

However my son did send notice of the vehicle being returned to him.

 

I have just been advised that even though the log book was changed back into the traders name I am still the owner? If so I'm way annoyed with that as I did this on the advice of DVLA

 

My concern over this is because this man is sending my son letters saying he owes him £1000 for parking costs.

 

This is such a pigs ear of a situation

 

😮

 

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Quote

My son did not send a letter of intended court proceedings Is this going to be an issue with the courts?

 

 

Not really as your son is litigant in person and leniency would be allowed. 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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I found a what's app message where my son said he was going to issue proceedings. I have got receipts to confirm timeline but missing low loader receipt 😕

copies of letters and what's app demands from trader demanding money for vehicle left at the business address

 

these demands for money are really worrying him!

 

i so hope this goes my son's way he spent every penny he had on this car

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Quick further question 😂

 

We filled in the form as COMPANY NAME (SALES PERSONS NAME/OWNER OF BUSINESS)

 

We wrote it like this as all communication has been sent directly to (owner of business)

 

As all documents sent to COMPANY NAME/Trading address have been refused)

 

Letters which were sent to the private address were signed for

 

Shall we take name off papers to be submitted in details of claim

Edited by onestressedwoman
additional info
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Each defendant can be one person or an organisation (such as a limited company). Remember, amendments after issuing the claim can be time consuming and may incur additional fees, so you should consider carefully who is responsible for the debt when adding a defendant(s). Please note, court staff are not legally trained and therefore cannot
tell you who the defendant(s) should be. If you are unsure who to claim against you should seek legal advice.


You should make sure the information you provide is accurate and complete. For any individual defendants you should make sure that you include their forename and family name
and that you have spelt their name correctly.


For organisations, you should make sure you have the full, registered name of the company.Please be aware there may be several companies with similar names therefore if the name you provide is incorrect you could inadvertently issue a claim against the wrong company.


Please be aware if you use the incorrect name it may not be possible to register judgments or take enforcement action at the later stages of the claim.
A sole trader is an individual and not an organisation. To enter a sole trader as a defendant, select ‘Individual’. In the ‘Surname’ box type their surname followed by either
‘T/A’ or ‘trading as’ and then their trading alias (you will also need to provide their forename / title in the relevant fields).

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

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I submitted the paperwork online yesterday with a list of documentation they hold and time line etc.

 

I put the full company name as listed on companies house with the trading address on the form.

 

They way I think this read was proceedings against the company with sales man whom was dealing with this issue in brackets (Also the owner and only listed employee of the firm)

 

If this bounces back I'm sure my son will just give up 😕

 

if this man continues to levy charges against My son for storage costs of vehicle we will have to take criminal action against him as he has dragged the car and broken bumper headlights wheels are bent which would be classed as criminal damage yes?

 

I just have my fingers and toes crossed for him.

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you cant sue a salesman working for a company,

the company is vicariously liable for anything that salesman does,

including killing your son with a dodgy motor.

 

If the person is a sole trader you state their name trading as xxxx  or xxxxltd.

If they are returning post address to the business then they will lose by default because the registered address IS the correct one.

 

you cant take criminal action against him but rubbishing his claim for storage costs is quite simple when the vehicle has been rejected under the CRA as it isnt your son's problem.

 

you are being mucked about and are believing his bull

 

Andyorch gave consise information to help you and you have not followed that advice

 

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Eric's brother

Indo apologize if I have offended you however some people have cognitive difficulties but some people presume that everybody has the same understanding nor memory to take in all details 

 

Either way don't think your comment was justified oh osw you have completed it incorrectly would have been more polite 

 

I do appreciate all Andy's assistance as he has helped me in the past I am sure he knows that 

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi scaniaman

 

My boy paid in full in cash.

If it was on a card he could have get money back that way?

The court papers have been submitted

However previous poster didn't understand what I was saying I did detail the defendant as .....

 

But in spiel mentioned the man's name along company name but action taken against company. 

 

He has until the 11th of November to respond

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well slightly confused here ????

The car dealer has responded and I have a message from Money claims

Saying he has rejected the claim ? ? ?

and is suggesting we use the free mediation service wtf

 

I don't understand

 

Andy :(

Edited by onestressedwoman
...
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Honey Bee

 

Was so angry at the email I had not logged on to see full response but here is his response

 

1.first of all they came on 25/07/2019 to purchase vauxall astra 2006 done over 100.000 miles .after full inspection and 2x test drive we agree the sale with out any warranty (after big discount ) we put on our invoice no warranty from **** LONDON we don't cover any mechanic and electric problem ,nonrefundable and he agree.

 

2.MR **** he took the car running perfect and ( he said carried repairs for it after that the engine seized) several possibilities for engine seized *he is new driver he don't have a big knowledge on driving may he put a wrong gear or he drive the car badly or high rpm .......

 

3.took the car running we revived it not running we ask him for the key he said if you give me the full refund i will give you the key ,mr**** left the car on yard without our permission and he block the exit and the key with him like i said before he refuse to give the key if i don't give him the full amount

 

4.after that i send him a lot of letter warring him about the delay charges if he don't give me the keys ,he refuse most of them on 15/10/2019 i received a call from mr ***** THREATENED ME i have this conversation saved

 

5.mr ***** said he transferred the v5 back without our permission we don't received any new v5 for this car

 

6.he said he delivered the car keys to may home address how he know were i'm living first and second i didn't revive nothing and he should bring the key to my office by hand .

 

7. i was more than happy to help him if the car keys was with me to inspect the car

 

8.when he left the car on our yard we told him there is Daley charged of £17 and we paid a recovery £120 to remove it to the side

 

9.he said he call us and that not right i have all my calls record the only call i got from him when his dad threatened me

 

10.why he don't come to my office to spake face to face to sort the problem out

 

This man is a ******* oooo.... wish I could swear on here

 

Dear ....

 

*.*. A*T** LONDON LTD has rejected your claim.

They’ve suggested you both use the free mediation service. You need to respond to their suggestion before 4pm on 5 December 2019.

Sign in to view their response: https://www.moneyclaims.service.gov.uk/dashboard

This is an automated email – we can’t respond to replies.

HM Courts & Tribunals Service
Claim number: 101MC749

Telephone: 0300 123 7050
Hours: 9am to 5pm, Monday to Friday
Find out about call charges https://www.gov.uk/call-charges

Email: [email protected]

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you mean they've filed a defence ?

and that's their defence above..

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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DX 

 

I haven't got a clue

This is beyond my comprehension

Thats everything they have written on the portal 

I don't see how claim could be rejected?

Paperwork is all correctly addressed and received by him

Surely a claim can not be rejected it can only be counterclaimed?

Love the deadline they gave me 5 days to respond 

New post on auto trader now from another customer he sold a mini to thats gear box blew up  how are auto trader still allowing him to advertise

 

Found this online wonder if its in relation to the same type of claim?

 

Rejecting a Claim

When rejecting a claim, you need to choose one of the three reasons below: 

  1. Claim sent to wrong defendant (Well this is the right defendant the company)
  2. AskCUE PI reference not valid (Haven't a clue what this is)
  3. Mandatory fields incorrectly populated (All fields corrected)

 

As expected the comments he's made are lies

Where did I get his address haha that's what happens when your company's registered with companies house 

He has 2 houses both exactly the same decor found other address on his previous companies details

 

On top of the fact he signed for our recorded delivery letter at his home address (and his names on POD)

2 Test drives that's 2 - 1 = 1 test drive

Big discount yeah £50 off a piece of ****

 

What he's written is all nonsense in his list of docs they are produced by his company all threating my son demanding money only 2 signed for the rest we refused.

 

I don't know I seem to have far too much on my plate this squid of a man is driving me to drink 

 

Anyhow how can this change my son's position under CRA

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well you issued the claim you should have been researching whats next.

 

its not rejected

just means you have until XX date move things fwd now its a defended claim.

so N180 tine.

if you look at the status page on MCOL of you claim

 

it tells you.

bet its says defendant filed a defence xx date, and the text you have is the defence....

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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13 hours ago, onestressedwoman said:

Honey Bee

 

Was so angry at the email I had not logged on to see full response but here is his response

 

 

8.when he left the car on our yard we told him there is Daley charged of £17 and we paid a recovery £120 to remove it to the side

 

 

 

That £17 charge per day does indeed sound like a Daley charge ..... Arthur Daley!

 

I suspect your son has a very good chance of winning a (well prepared) county court claim, but that is only half the battle.

The next is being able to enforce a judgment, as winning a judgment you then can't enforce is a hollow victory.

The defendant is a limited company motor trader. These have been known to rack up a host of claims, dissolve the company, and re-appear, phoenix-like as a new limited company that has no responsibility for the previous companies debts.

 

It'd be worth checking how many companies this man has been a director of, and looking closely as any companies you find he has been linked to in the past (companies house search and google searches), as well as any other companies that have been a motor trader from the same addresses as the lot he is currently trading from (or any previous lots for his company).

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Bazza 

 

He's done it as far as I know 3 companies (names) registered at same trading place over some time . That's why I wanted to put claim in his name personally.

 

This Mediation lol no point mediating he's not going to agree to parting with money so it's off to court we go 

 

If we have to go to court can I add documentation to the list already detailed on the moneyclaim ?

 

There's no way the court will enforce the haha parking charge is there ?

 

 

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You can’t “put his name personally” just because it suits you.

 

You can only put the entity who the contract was with. If it was a limited company there are some exceptional circumstances where you can ‘pierce the corporate veil’, and “I thought he was a dodgy dealer” isn’t one of them.

 

If he sold the car as Fred Bloggs, or Fred Bloggs T/A (trading as) ‘Arthur Daley motors’, then you can sue Fred Bloggs.

 

if it was Dodgy Cars Ltd (or even ‘Dodgy Cars Ltd t/a  ‘Arthur Daley motors’), then you can’t sue Fred Bloggs personally, even if they are a director, provided the contract was with the Ltd Co. [except in those very restricted circumstances (such as knowingly continuing to trade while the Ltd Co is insolvent)].
 

you can argue that is unfair, but it is one of the reasons (limited liability of the company to the initial funds put in by the shareholders at formation being another) that Ltd Co’s offer as a means of encouraging entrepreneurship: they can be abused by miscreants as a ‘get-out clause’ though.

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I know :(

It is even more annoying these "demands" for parking charges are on an old companies name watermarked stamped on it 

Another company he shut down

So wish I could get a print off of the review left by another customer and present it in my bundle for court

 

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powerless

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I really should of done was written off this money and done what I wanted to do in the first place lol

He had a skip outside his house I wanted to get my friend with a boom to lift the car into the skip at least there would have been a lot less paperwork I would have had great satisfaction and it would have cost him at least £500 to have it lifted out 

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