Not fit for Purpose Court action

[onestressedwoman]

Hi 

 

My son purchased a car from a ltd company (Only one emploee him) and it was returned to them as it was not fit for purpose.

It was returned within the 30day period required.

 

We filled in court form N1 to seek redress for the money my son paid him.

However the documents have come back from court as we put too many addresses for him as we had his private addresses too (5)

 

I've spoken to the court and the advice given is as clear as mud.

 

So choices of action available as advised by the court is....

Take action out against the company

or

as him personally.

 

We were considering taking action out against him personally because he seems to have a habit of opening and closing companies

But will he be able to squirm out of it?

 

If we take the action out against the company will he be able to close the company and again my son does not get his money back.

 

My son saved every penny for 2 years to be able to afford a car AND the extortionate insurance they have to pay nowadays 

The car was purchased the day after he passed his test

Now he has no vehicle and no way of purchasing a new one.

 

This man has the cheek to try and charge my son for storing the car on his lot (when the vehicle V5 is in the companies name again)

 

Any advise will really be appreciated as I have to get these forms returned today as this is stressing us both out and I have to send these back to the court today.

[AndyOrch]

Defendant details
A defendant is the person or organisation that the claim will be issued against (i.e. the party who owes you the money).
You should consider the following:

a) Number of Defendants
There can be up to two defendants for claims issued via MCOL – for claims against more than two defendants you should contact the County Court Money Claim Centre. If you want to issue a claim with two defendants you will need to click the ‘Add a 2nd defendant’ button.

 

Please note
that each individual should be listed as a separate defendant. For example, if you were issuing a claim against a husband and wife, they need to be listed separately as the first and second defendant and not on one line as “Mr and Mrs”.

b) Choosing the Defendant(s)

Each defendant can be one person or an organisation (such as a limited company). Remember, amendments after issuing the claim can be time consuming and may incur
additional fees, so you should consider carefully who is responsible for the debt when adding a defendant(s). Please note, court staff are not legally trained and therefore cannot
tell you who the defendant(s) should be. If you are unsure who to claim against you should seek legal advice.

You should make sure the information you provide is accurate and complete. For any individual defendants you should make sure that you include their forename and family name and that you have spelt their name correctly.

For organisations, you should make sure you have the full, registered name of the company. Please be aware there may be several companies with similar names therefore if the name you provide is incorrect you could inadvertently issue a claim against the wrong company. Please be aware if you use the incorrect name it may not be possible to register judgments or take enforcement action at the later stages of the claim.

 

Providing a valid address for each Defendant

You need to provide a full address within England and Wales for each defendant, including the post code. This is known as their service address. MCOL does not have
jurisdiction outside England and Wales, claims issued to addresses outside England and Wales will be invalid.

 if the defendant is an individual the claim must be served to their usual or last known
residential address
 if the defendant is an individual using a trading alias then the claim may be served to
their usual or last known residential address or their place of business
 if the defendant is an organisation then the claim may be served to their registered
office or to the address where you have been dealing with them
Further information on choosing the address for service correctly can be found in the Civil
Procedure Rules 6.9. An online version of the Civil Procedure Rules can be found at:
http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/.

 

Andy

[onestressedwoman]

Andy

 

My son

did not send a letter of intended court proceedings

Is this going to be an issue with the courts?

 

However my son did send notice of the vehicle being returned to him.

 

I have just been advised that even though the log book was changed back into the traders name I am still the owner? If so I'm way annoyed with that as I did this on the advice of DVLA

 

My concern over this is because this man is sending my son letters saying he owes him £1000 for parking costs.

 

This is such a pigs ear of a situation

 

 

[AndyOrch]

Quote

My son did not send a letter of intended court proceedings Is this going to be an issue with the courts?

 

 

Not really as your son is litigant in person and leniency would be allowed. 

[onestressedwoman]

I found a what's app message where my son said he was going to issue proceedings. I have got receipts to confirm timeline but missing low loader receipt

copies of letters and what's app demands from trader demanding money for vehicle left at the business address

 

these demands for money are really worrying him!

 

i so hope this goes my son's way he spent every penny he had on this car

[onestressedwoman]

Quick further question 

 

We filled in the form as COMPANY NAME (SALES PERSONS NAME/OWNER OF BUSINESS)

 

We wrote it like this as all communication has been sent directly to (owner of business)

 

As all documents sent to COMPANY NAME/Trading address have been refused)

 

Letters which were sent to the private address were signed for

 

Shall we take name off papers to be submitted in details of claim

Edited October 23, 2019 by onestressedwoman
additional info

[AndyOrch]

Each defendant can be one person or an organisation (such as a limited company). Remember, amendments after issuing the claim can be time consuming and may incur additional fees, so you should consider carefully who is responsible for the debt when adding a defendant(s). Please note, court staff are not legally trained and therefore cannot
tell you who the defendant(s) should be. If you are unsure who to claim against you should seek legal advice.

You should make sure the information you provide is accurate and complete. For any individual defendants you should make sure that you include their forename and family name
and that you have spelt their name correctly.

For organisations, you should make sure you have the full, registered name of the company.Please be aware there may be several companies with similar names therefore if the name you provide is incorrect you could inadvertently issue a claim against the wrong company.

Please be aware if you use the incorrect name it may not be possible to register judgments or take enforcement action at the later stages of the claim.
A sole trader is an individual and not an organisation. To enter a sole trader as a defendant, select ‘Individual’. In the ‘Surname’ box type their surname followed by either
‘T/A’ or ‘trading as’ and then their trading alias (you will also need to provide their forename / title in the relevant fields).

[onestressedwoman]

I submitted the paperwork online yesterday with a list of documentation they hold and time line etc.

 

I put the full company name as listed on companies house with the trading address on the form.

 

They way I think this read was proceedings against the company with sales man whom was dealing with this issue in brackets (Also the owner and only listed employee of the firm)

 

If this bounces back I'm sure my son will just give up

 

if this man continues to levy charges against My son for storage costs of vehicle we will have to take criminal action against him as he has dragged the car and broken bumper headlights wheels are bent which would be classed as criminal damage yes?

 

I just have my fingers and toes crossed for him.

[ericsbrother]

you cant sue a salesman working for a company,

the company is vicariously liable for anything that salesman does,

including killing your son with a dodgy motor.

 

If the person is a sole trader you state their name trading as xxxx  or xxxxltd.

If they are returning post address to the business then they will lose by default because the registered address IS the correct one.

 

you cant take criminal action against him but rubbishing his claim for storage costs is quite simple when the vehicle has been rejected under the CRA as it isnt your son's problem.

 

you are being mucked about and are believing his bull

 

Andyorch gave consise information to help you and you have not followed that advice

 

[onestressedwoman]

Eric's brother

Indo apologize if I have offended you however some people have cognitive difficulties but some people presume that everybody has the same understanding nor memory to take in all details 

 

Either way don't think your comment was justified oh osw you have completed it incorrectly would have been more polite 

 

I do appreciate all Andy's assistance as he has helped me in the past I am sure he knows that 

 

 

 

[scaniaman]

You don't say how your son paid for the car. Was there a credit card or HP involved in any part of the payment ??

[onestressedwoman]

Hi scaniaman

 

My boy paid in full in cash.

If it was on a card he could have get money back that way?

The court papers have been submitted

However previous poster didn't understand what I was saying I did detail the defendant as .....

 

But in spiel mentioned the man's name along company name but action taken against company. 

 

He has until the 11th of November to respond

[onestressedwoman]

Well slightly confused here ????

The car dealer has responded and I have a message from Money claims

Saying he has rejected the claim ? ? ?

and is suggesting we use the free mediation service wtf

 

I don't understand

 

Andy

Edited November 30, 2019 by onestressedwoman
...

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

Could you post up the message you had from Money Claims please? This will help the guys to advise you.

 

HB

[onestressedwoman]

Honey Bee

 

Was so angry at the email I had not logged on to see full response but here is his response

 

1.first of all they came on 25/07/2019 to purchase vauxall astra 2006 done over 100.000 miles .after full inspection and 2x test drive we agree the sale with out any warranty (after big discount ) we put on our invoice no warranty from **** LONDON we don't cover any mechanic and electric problem ,nonrefundable and he agree.

 

2.MR **** he took the car running perfect and ( he said carried repairs for it after that the engine seized) several possibilities for engine seized *he is new driver he don't have a big knowledge on driving may he put a wrong gear or he drive the car badly or high rpm .......

 

3.took the car running we revived it not running we ask him for the key he said if you give me the full refund i will give you the key ,mr**** left the car on yard without our permission and he block the exit and the key with him like i said before he refuse to give the key if i don't give him the full amount

 

4.after that i send him a lot of letter warring him about the delay charges if he don't give me the keys ,he refuse most of them on 15/10/2019 i received a call from mr ***** THREATENED ME i have this conversation saved

 

5.mr ***** said he transferred the v5 back without our permission we don't received any new v5 for this car

 

6.he said he delivered the car keys to may home address how he know were i'm living first and second i didn't revive nothing and he should bring the key to my office by hand .

 

7. i was more than happy to help him if the car keys was with me to inspect the car

 

8.when he left the car on our yard we told him there is Daley charged of £17 and we paid a recovery £120 to remove it to the side

 

9.he said he call us and that not right i have all my calls record the only call i got from him when his dad threatened me

 

10.why he don't come to my office to spake face to face to sort the problem out

 

This man is a ******* oooo.... wish I could swear on here

 

Dear ....   *.*. A*T** LONDON LTD has rejected your claim. They’ve suggested you both use the free mediation service. You need to respond to their suggestion before 4pm on 5 December 2019. Sign in to view their response: https://www.moneyclaims.service.gov.uk/dashboard This is an automated email – we can’t respond to replies. HM Courts & Tribunals Service Claim number: 101MC749 Telephone: 0300 123 7050 Hours: 9am to 5pm, Monday to Friday Find out about call charges https://www.gov.uk/call-charges Email: [email protected]

[dx100uk]

you mean they've filed a defence ?

and that's their defence above..

 

dx

 

[onestressedwoman]

DX 

 

I haven't got a clue

This is beyond my comprehension

Thats everything they have written on the portal 

I don't see how claim could be rejected?

Paperwork is all correctly addressed and received by him

Surely a claim can not be rejected it can only be counterclaimed?

Love the deadline they gave me 5 days to respond 

New post on auto trader now from another customer he sold a mini to thats gear box blew up  how are auto trader still allowing him to advertise

 

Found this online wonder if its in relation to the same type of claim?

 

Rejecting a Claim

When rejecting a claim, you need to choose one of the three reasons below: 

1. Claim sent to wrong defendant (Well this is the right defendant the company)
2. AskCUE PI reference not valid (Haven't a clue what this is)
3. Mandatory fields incorrectly populated (All fields corrected)

 

As expected the comments he's made are lies

Where did I get his address haha that's what happens when your company's registered with companies house 

He has 2 houses both exactly the same decor found other address on his previous companies details

 

On top of the fact he signed for our recorded delivery letter at his home address (and his names on POD)

2 Test drives that's 2 - 1 = 1 test drive

Big discount yeah £50 off a piece of ****

 

What he's written is all nonsense in his list of docs they are produced by his company all threating my son demanding money only 2 signed for the rest we refused.

 

I don't know I seem to have far too much on my plate this squid of a man is driving me to drink 

 

Anyhow how can this change my son's position under CRA

[dx100uk]

well you issued the claim you should have been researching whats next.

 

its not rejected

just means you have until XX date move things fwd now its a defended claim.

so N180 tine.

if you look at the status page on MCOL of you claim

 

it tells you.

bet its says defendant filed a defence xx date, and the text you have is the defence....

 

[BazzaS]

13 hours ago, onestressedwoman said:

Honey Bee

 

Was so angry at the email I had not logged on to see full response but here is his response

 

 

8.when he left the car on our yard we told him there is Daley charged of £17 and we paid a recovery £120 to remove it to the side

 

 

That £17 charge per day does indeed sound like a Daley charge ..... Arthur Daley!

 

I suspect your son has a very good chance of winning a (well prepared) county court claim, but that is only half the battle.

The next is being able to enforce a judgment, as winning a judgment you then can't enforce is a hollow victory.

The defendant is a limited company motor trader. These have been known to rack up a host of claims, dissolve the company, and re-appear, phoenix-like as a new limited company that has no responsibility for the previous companies debts.

 

It'd be worth checking how many companies this man has been a director of, and looking closely as any companies you find he has been linked to in the past (companies house search and google searches), as well as any other companies that have been a motor trader from the same addresses as the lot he is currently trading from (or any previous lots for his company).

[onestressedwoman]

Bazza 

 

He's done it as far as I know 3 companies (names) registered at same trading place over some time . That's why I wanted to put claim in his name personally.

 

This Mediation lol no point mediating he's not going to agree to parting with money so it's off to court we go 

 

If we have to go to court can I add documentation to the list already detailed on the moneyclaim ?

 

There's no way the court will enforce the haha parking charge is there ?

 

 

[BazzaS]

You can’t “put his name personally” just because it suits you.

 

You can only put the entity who the contract was with. If it was a limited company there are some exceptional circumstances where you can ‘pierce the corporate veil’, and “I thought he was a dodgy dealer” isn’t one of them.

 

If he sold the car as Fred Bloggs, or Fred Bloggs T/A (trading as) ‘Arthur Daley motors’, then you can sue Fred Bloggs.

 

if it was Dodgy Cars Ltd (or even ‘Dodgy Cars Ltd t/a  ‘Arthur Daley motors’), then you can’t sue Fred Bloggs personally, even if they are a director, provided the contract was with the Ltd Co. [except in those very restricted circumstances (such as knowingly continuing to trade while the Ltd Co is insolvent)].
 

you can argue that is unfair, but it is one of the reasons (limited liability of the company to the initial funds put in by the shareholders at formation being another) that Ltd Co’s offer as a means of encouraging entrepreneurship: they can be abused by miscreants as a ‘get-out clause’ though.

[onestressedwoman]

I know

It is even more annoying these "demands" for parking charges are on an old companies name watermarked stamped on it 

Another company he shut down

So wish I could get a print off of the review left by another customer and present it in my bundle for court

 

[onestressedwoman]

what do you think about a private collection service?

 

[dx100uk]

powerless

[onestressedwoman]

I really should of done was written off this money and done what I wanted to do in the first place lol

He had a skip outside his house I wanted to get my friend with a boom to lift the car into the skip at least there would have been a lot less paperwork I would have had great satisfaction and it would have cost him at least £500 to have it lifted out