NCP ANPR PCN - overstay - Terrace Road, Bournemouth

[S.J]

Hey, 

 

I need some advice please. 

 

On 15th July I parked at a NCP car park when meeting my sister in her car.

we pyrchased 3 tickets over the day as plans changed and always was back at the car park by the time our ticket expired.

In total we paid for 4 hours psrking.  

They had a ANPR camera on entry and exit if car park and determined we spent an extra 45 minutes in the car park unpaid for.

 

As stated in my appeal to them if they check their video cameras it took me about 20 minute to take my two young children out of the car.

Change a dirty nappy,

settle them ,

get pushchair out.

 

on return to leaving I was at the car at the time of my parking ticket expiring and It was late and I put shopping away,

spoke to my sister,

put kids in p.j

put pushchair away and

then took a call in the car.

as you can see the time added up.

 

But at the time I didn't think I was doing wrong, 

 there were no signs stating you must purchase a ticket in a certain time period and exit the car park by a certain time. 

If they wanted to charge for 5 hours then there should be a ticket machine at entry and exit of gates.

If a parking ticket warden came along he would have seen we were at the vechile at the time we paid for and when ticket had expired we were packing to leave.

Tell me if I am wrong.

It's just ridicoulous and unfair for families or even people with disabilities.

How can they justify this. 

 

Well I decided to make an appeal, I started this on the 15th July.

I Chased ncp for updates twice in July and they said a response will be sent soon as my case was being looked at. 

 

On the 4th September i emailed ncp as I received a letter saying notice had expired and I now owe £100 not £60. 

 I was confused as I had been waiting for a response and never got one after the 14 days they said they would respond.

I asked them to look at the appeal I sent again and respond. 

 

13th september I chased ncp and they said a notice of regection was sent on 29th July to my email address.

I had not received this and asked for proof of original email to be forwarded to me. 

 

25th September I sent an email to ncp asking for proof of this notice of regection letter and stressed how unhappy I was with the sevice and communication  made by them. 

 

3rd October- email received from ncp with notice of regection letter they apparently sent.

It was emailed as an attachment (but they hadnt forwarded the original email) nor did they send a copy of my appeal I made on the 15th July on there website. 

 

They had now taking this to trace debt management which I've heard mixed reviews on asking for £160.00.

Letter was received by them stating this.

I asked ncp to inform them this was being dealt with and to suspend my account.

Ncp said it's been passed over and future correspondence will need be made with trace. (Talk about pass the buck) 

 

3rd October I sent another email asking for a copy of the original email and my appeal application for evidence to take to popla.

I also stressed on why trace debt management were involved as this was still being resolved between ourselves and eventually popla. 

 

17th October I received a 2nd letter from Trace debt recovery stating £160 was owed and I had 7 days to make payment or it would be taken to court and passed to a solicitors and potentially any additional costs I would be liable for. 

 

17th October I spoke to citizen advice and they advice me to contact trace debt management to put everything on hold as it's being dealt with by the ombudsmen (popla).

If I am honest this company seemed very un proffesional, unsure on how to do there job or sharks and after reading some reviews I think I am right.

So not really worried about them.

I explained ncp will update them on the outcome considering they passed my personal details to them which should have never happened. 

 

I don't know if to go to popla with this evidence / emails/ appeal.

I have obviously appealed which may be I shouldn't have. 

 

The annoying thing is my sister got the same parking letter and she emailed ncp the same email when she appealed and they said they would respond in 14days.

Well they didn't and then it was never heard off again.

 

Mine got passed to trace debt management.

Its been frustrating as i have called for updates constantly.

The good thing is though we have two exact same cases and both being treated differently. 

I guess we could go with unfair practice. 

 

Can I have some advice from you all please on where I should go from here.

Appeal to popla ? Ignore ? 

 

It's been going on for so long.

I have two young children and trying to focus on my new business and the stress with this ontop is just something I don't need right now. 

 

 

[dx100uk]

where does it say its a FINE please?

 

dx

 

[S.J]

Hi. 

 

Thank you for messaging..

 

Sorry it states parking charge notice not parking fine. Would this make a difference? 

Sj

[dx100uk]

yes VERY

only the police/council can fine you for parking by issuing a Penalty Charge Notice

 

if you look carefully, you'll see this is a private Parking Company

and a Parking Charge Notice...

in all effect - a speculative invoice for breaking some imaginary contract you entered into by using the payment machine. NOT A FINE.

 

sadly, as I think you've now realised, YOU DO NOT EVER APPEAL in 9/10 cases.

as you've shot yourself in the foot by identifying yourself as the driver and lost any protection you had under the Protection Of Freedom Act [POFA] by doing so.

 

please complete this:

 

and scan up to ONE multipage PDF ONLY

the NTK and any other communications to/from PE.

 

lastly STOP EVER RINGING AND USING EMAIL WITH THESE FLEECERS or THEIR DOGS.

writing ONLY  from now on.

 

 

[S.J]

Hi  

 

Thank you for your email. Shall I complete the PCN form you sent? I am unsure if to go to popla regarding this or leave it. Now I have lost my POFA by identifying myself does this mean I should continue the appeal? 

[dx100uk]

complete post 4 link

forget the appeal now.

 

[lookinforinfo]

Not much point in appealing.

You paid for 4 hours and stayed for an extra 45 minutes.

Goes to show what a bunch of crooks you are dealing with when you first appealed they delayed their response until you came liable for the higher charge and they wouldn't reduce that sum.

 

From now on just ignore everything you get from NCP  and their unregulated debt collectors (birds of a feather).

They will try to frighten you with increased costs  that you can safely ignore.

 

In the  meantime please complete the questions asked by dx above and post up any PCNs so we can see if they got them right.

 

Also we need to see their signs in the car park especially the one at the entrance; any that are different from the others and the T and Cs on the ticket machine.

 

Before posting the PCNs please delete your name and reg. number plus anything else that might identify yourself.

 

[S.J]

please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement- 21/06/19

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]- 12/07/19

 

3 Date received 15/07/19

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? N I can't see it

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes a ANPR Camera showing arrival and exit but separate parking machine in car park not at gates 

 

6 Have you appealed? Y

Post up your appeal] I am waiting for a copy of my appeal but I have other emails sent i can send 

Have you had a response? Y. Email was never sent as they stated on 29th July. Finally got the notice of regection sent by email on 3rd Oct. 

 

7 Who is the parking company? National Car Parks Limited owned by Park24.co

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]

NCP, Terrace Road, Bournemouth 

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. Not on the letter but found on line its BPA

 

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure, BPA

please check HERE

 

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here

 

in either case scan up bothsides of any letters/tickets in or appeals made out to ONE MULTIPAGE PDF ONL

[dx100uk]

they are out of time with their NTK anyway

ignore them now

sad you didn't spot this in the 1st place!

none of what you have done was ever necessary!!

[S.J]

No way. 

 

I didn't realise that it's 14 days. They stated 28 days on response time on payment etc so I summed 28 days. 

 

So I should just ignore all now. 

 

So frustrating I didn't come on this post sooner. 

 

Thank you kindly 

[dx100uk]

yes ignore until/unless you get a letter with the title 'letter of claim'

 

they had 14 days from the 'offence' to send you their demand

they missed that .

sadly you appealing and admitting yourself as the driver wipes that out now.

 

they knew this obv which is why they tried to scare you with trace 

 

just remember

a DCA or any other like company NOT representing A gov't AGENCY are TOTALLY POWERLESS

and are NOT BAILIFFS 

and have zero legal powers on ANY DEBT regardless to whatever it is.

 

 

[S.J]

So just to clarify due to them sending me the penalty charge letter after the 14 day notice means they have no case ? Or because I appealed I still need go act ? 

[dx100uk]

its NOT a penalty charge

 

[ericsbrother]

you screwed yourself by appealing,

the protection the POFA give you is as the keeper if they dont follow the rules but by appealing you have identified yourself as the driver so you have admitted they have got the right person and may well have a contract with you.

 

Now what we need to know is whether the contract that is offered by the signage and accepted by you feeding their meter is valid or not

 

so we will need to see the signs at the entrance to the car park

( and the entrance anyway even if there are no signs),

the blurb on the ticket machine and

the origianl NTK they sent you as that may well not create a liability anyway if they got the wording wrong

[S.J]

Sorry dx,  my phone, I mean parking charge. 

 

 

[S.J]

Thank you for your views ericbrothers. 

 

Please bare in mind that the reasons I am on this forum is to get some friendly advice as I have never been in this situation before and was not aware of the  legalities/ rights we had and how awful these type of companies are, until recently. It has surly been a lesson learnt and I will certainly pass this information on to others. 

 

If I understand correctly from my previous post is that due to them missing the date from sending me the offence within the 14 day period. So I was going to ignore until I received a letter with title letter of claim 

[dx100uk]

the POFA violation of 14 days is immaterial now as you appealed and shot yourself in the foot by stating you were driving.

 

so.

in all aspects that matters not now.

next moved is not yours.

 

yes ignore until/unless you get a letter with the title ' letter of claim'

 

 

[ericsbrother]

get the evidnec you will need so you dont have to rush out and get it in a hurry later. This way we can tell you iof what you ahve got is enough/clear enough

[S.J]

Hi all. 

 

I wanted to update you on my situation. 

 

I left it from our last conversation with not respinding to Debt recovery and ncp wouldn't discuss my situation further anyway as it was passed to the debt recovery. Today I received these letters in the post from ncp and bwlegal. I am not sure now if I should contact bwlegal and explain what's happened and about the POFA Violation 14 days. 

 

Any advice please. 

Sammy 

 

 

 

[honeybee13]

Don't rush to reply,  Sammy, see what the guys think. 

 

Is the BW letter headed letter before claim/action?

 

HB

[S.J]

I can't post the pictures over. 

 

NCP LETTER

As you failed to make arrangements to pay your account balance to ourselves (ncp) or to our debt collection provider TRACE Debt recovery Uk limited. Your account has now been passed to BW LEGAL. who are our approved legal service provider? 

You must contact them with immediate effect. 

(Address and number provided for Bw legal) 

 

* With this letter I had another letter attached from BW LEGAL saying 

 

We have been instructed by NCP and debt recovery uk limited in relation to the balance due for the above parking charge notice. The balance of £160/includes the PCN charge plus the £60 debt recovery charge. Which are detail in the PCN and on our clients terms and conditions. These are clearly displayed on our clients signage at the contravention location. 

 

As you failed to either make payment or raise a valid appeal that resulted in your appeal being upheld, the balance due remains outstanding and we require payment in full by 3rd December 2019. Ig you fail to make payment, or provide reason for none payment by 3rd December, further collection activity such as emails, calls, messages will continue. 

 

COURT PROCEDDING 

if you do not make payment of the balance or contact us with a valid reason for none payment, then, in accordance with pre action protocol for debt claims we will issue a pre action protocol letter before claim, and on expiry. 

Take our clients instruction to commence legal proceeding against you without further notice. Should legal processing be issued against you, you may be then liable for additional court fees, solictors, cost and statutory interest. 

We would like to avoid you incurring these additional charges. Further to this if our clients is successful with the claim and obtains a county court judgement against you. This CCJ may be recorded on your credit file for 6 years. 

 

 

 

* I have just received a call a moment ago from bwlegal and said I will call back as it isn't the right time. He wouldn't tell me what it was rekation to without going through security first. I may be wrong but the gentleman I spoke to sounded very similar to the person I spoke to a debt recovery. 

 

 

Obviously I don't want a CCJ or further charges occuring. 

 

Please please can I gave some. Professional feedback here. 

 

Also I can't remember if I me tioned this but my twin sister parked her car at the ncp aswell and we both got the same PCN charge letter in June. My sister sent the same email to them as I did, explaining that we paid for 3 separate tickets and we shown proof of transaction for these. The extra time they are stating that we're unpaid was from the time of unloading kids, pushchair from the car and then packing the var after being out all day. We sent a detail email responding to this. My sister never got a reply back and she never received any letters (nothing), only I did. 

 

We obviously had different people looking at our case and treated them differently. 

Also they will not send me a copy of my appeal I sent to them in June on there website. (I have a copy i sent to my sister) 

 

I asked for a proof of the email they apparently sent me about the balance being due before it got passed to debt recovery. After none stop of proof they sent me a screen shot of emails sent to me from their database. In that list we're only 3 emails with time and date sent on like an excel sheet. The thing they missed was that there were other documents sent between those dates stated and they weren't on this list, where they should have been as it was in between the dates stated. Obviously it was just made up. 

 

Also all documents I've received from them have been through the post, but this one important letter they apparently sent via email.?? 

 

Anyway after speaking on here i stopped speaking with them and wasting my time. 

 

Sorry for the long email. You can see how stressed i am with this. I can't afford this coming up to Christmas. 

 

Honeybee 

 

The BWlegal letter says 

Contravention Description: Parked longer than the time paid for 

[honeybee13]

Well, as long as it doesn't say Letter before Claim/Action, then you probably don't need to reply. They certainly can't add £60 to the 'fine'.

 

People should be along to advise more fully.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

exactly 

not a letter of claim 

just more silly threats.

 

I seriously would not be stressing out about some silly speculative invoice.

 

you need to be reading up in between downtimes

then you'll know about how these people operate and what to do and expect

 

there are 1000's of threads here on CAG relating to exactly the same issue you have.

use our search.

 

I refer you back to my earlier post..they have already shot themselves in the foot...

 

they are out of time with their NTK anyway

ignore them now

sad you didn't spot this in the 1st place!

none of what you have done was ever necessary!!

[ericsbrother]

On 17/10/2019 at 15:01, S.J said:

No way. 

 

I didn't realise that it's 14 days. They stated 28 days on response time on payment etc so I summed 28 days. 

 

So I should just ignore all now. 

 

So frustrating I didn't come on this post sooner. 

 

Thank you kindly 

problem is that as you appealed the POFA doesnt protect you any more unless there is no liability whatsoever..

 

 

[S.J]

Eric brother thanks for your post. 

 

There's mixed reviews on the POFA?

 

However my sister and I both got the parking letter from ncp, both appealed and they ignored hers and actioned on mine.

Surely that's unfair as both cases got treated differently for the same offence. 

Plus they didn't send me a letter before it went to debt management and they can't prove or show this. 

 

I am so stuck on what to do.

I either take the risk and wait for a court letter (if they take it that far) or take it to people.

 

Anyone else got any views on this please?