Machine not working

[Theangel1971]

Hi, I parked in Maylord Orchard, council run car park which was the closest I could get to where I wanted to go in a hurry.

 

When I got to the machine to pay for a ticket, the machine wasn't working for cards.

I went to the other machine and that was also not working.

 

I decided to run into the shopping centre to get some cash with the hope that would work and when I returned I had received a PCN.

 

Any advise please?

[dx100uk]

they will know card payment was not available.

appeal

 

how long before you got back?

 

dx

[Theangel1971]

About 10 minutes by the time I got to the bank, then got some change. I only wanted to stay for an hour and the machine states no change given so I didn't want to put £10 in.

[dx100uk]

I believe there is atleast a 10 min grace period?

 

let the experts comment.

 

dx

[Jamberson]

No grace period. An observation period of a few minutes, usually, for the CEO to see whether the driver returns.

 

They expect you to have means of payment when you arrive, but obviously the machine malfunction was not forseeable. You have a chance if you appeal with a polite letter. (I wouldn't mention having £10 on you.)

 

Did you ultimately buy a P&D ticket? If so, enclose it with your appeal.

[ericsbrother]

appeal as suggested and let them know that not only was their machinery faulty (obviously a systems aerror as both U/s) but that you had gone to the bank to get cash for the sole purpose of paying to park.

 

there is case law on such things and you certainly have at least 5 minutes to get change so argue extenuating circumstances pointing out this is covered by the previous cases.

 

They may well decide that the cost of arguing will be more than they can get for the penalty charge and say that "on this occasion" they ahve decided to drop the matter.

 

A few councils will press the charge come hell of high water.

 

Send photocopy of your ticket, not the actual one

[Theangel1971]

Hi, thanks for your replies, I wrote to them & this is the reply:

 

Thank you for your correspondence received on 16 October 2019, concerning the above Penalty Charge Notice.

Contravention
I have viewed your mitigation and the evidence of the Civil Enforcement Officer on the day in question.

The issue is that you parked without clearly displaying a valid pay & display ticket or voucher.

Mitigation
Whilst you state that you ‘tried to buy a ticket using my card but both machines would not accept a card payment’, there is also the option to pay by phone using the RingGo app if you do not have any cash with you.

 

A grace period of minutes is given to allow drivers time to purchase a ticket, the Officer on patrol observed your vehicle from 12:52 – 12:57 before correctly issuing a Penalty Charge Notice.

Conclusion
It remains the responsibility of the driver to ensure that there is a parking session in place before leaving their vehicle parked.

With this in mind I have upheld the Penalty Charge Notice and rejected your challenge.

I will still accept the discounted amount of £25.00, provided payment is received within 14 days of the date of this letter.

Payment can be made by post to the address

[ericsbrother]

your choice then, pay up at the discounted rate or hope to win at appeal.

 

You have one thing in your favour, though, if you dont own a phone the ringo option isnt available so the terms of the parking contract are discriminatory and probably void.

Now if the meter was fed with cash after returning from the bak the council will be stuffed on this point. If you just drove off then I would advise paying up

[Theangel1971]

Hi, I've replied to them.

I explained that I didn't have my phone with me & that I was fed up with them behaving like some nazi dictator, demanding penalty charges, when I made every effort to go to the bank because the machine didn't accept my card.

 

Then I lost my rag a bit more suggesting we should take it to court....

[Theangel1971]

Hi, I didn't get a reply to my email .

 

Instead I received a letter today charging me now double (thought I had a right to appeal).

 

Could anyone offer advise about what to do now?

 

Thank you.

[honeybee13]

Are you able to post up a redacted version of the letter please?

 

HB

[Theangel1971]

Hi, which letter their's or mine? Thank you

[honeybee13]

Theirs please.

 

HB

[Theangel1971]

Excuse the delay, a close friend of mine has had a stroke. I will look at it all now. Thanks

 

It's a letter written as though i have not emailed them at all, 

 

There is another two letters but I'm not allowed to send more MB on this site.

The first document is entitled:

HOW TO MAKE REPRESENTATIONS IN RESPECT OF THIS NOTICE, (you may be familiar with it?).

 

The other document I'm not sure I can send because of data protection, it's various photographs taken of my car at the time and two curious one's

 

I'm uncertain at this time why they have been sent to me because they are pictures of the pcn's hand held showing registration numbers of other vehicles, none of which are mine. 

 

docss 2.pdf

[Theangel1971]

Hi, does anyone have any ideas how to approach the council regarding this ticket? Thanks

[dx100uk]

I have sorted your upload 

you should have room now to upload the other letters

please use a lower resolution scan

or PDF reducer so the ONE pdf you upload is not several MB in size

read upload

[Jamberson]

One way to resolve it is to pay the discount, assuming it hasn't yet expired.

 

If you want to fight it, you don't have a very strong case. They expect you to have the means to pay when you arrive, and although not all payment methods were available on the day, there is no grace period for going to get cash.

 

You have already said you wrote to them, "I was fed up with them behaving like some nazi dictator ... Then I lost my rag a bit more suggesting we should take it to court" - which is counter-productive. Considering what happened in Nazi germany and comparing that to a parking ticket is quite offensive, and there is no court process open to you, so that remark will be dismissed out of hand.

 

If I were you I would consider just paying it. If not, you can only re-state your case about the machine and the circumstances on the day, and hope they are feeling generous. If you do that, and you let the discount expire, then you are gambling double the charge.

[Theangel1971]

Thank you, have enclosed last document.

car.pdf

 

The letter I received was worded as if they hadn't received my original emails.

Do emails not count as a dispute? 

 

Thank you.

the other letter was picture of my car at said time and two pictures of the traffic warden's hand held with other people's registration numbers on.

 

I'm not sure about privacy of information to post them on here. 

[Jamberson]

Emails do count as an appeal, provided you include the relevant info in the email for them to identfiy the PCN.

 

If you are alleging they received a valid appeal and ignored it, then that would be grounds to contest, but if you are saying you don't think they received it, then that's not going to go anywhere.

 

It would be helpful to know what you wrote and what they wrote back.

The attachment you have just given shows half of one side of a letter, with nothing relevant to the case.

[Theangel1971]

I received an email in response to the first email I sent contesting the ticket, when I first explained my situation.

 

This is the response I received: 

Please see attached with reference to the above.

Please read carefully and follow instructions contained within.

 

Any response to this email account will not be monitored.

 

Parking Appeals and Representations Team

 

Thank you for your correspondence received on 16 October 2019, concerning the above Penalty Charge Notice.

 

Contravention

I have viewed your mitigation and the evidence of the Civil Enforcement Officer on the day in question.

The issue is that you parked without clearly displaying a valid pay & display ticket or voucher.

 

Mitigation

Whilst you state that you ‘tried to buy a ticket using my card but both machines would not accept a card payment’, there is also the option to pay by phone using the RingGo app if you do not have any cash with you.

 

A grace period of minutes is given to allow drivers time to purchase a ticket, the Officer on patrol observed your vehicle from 12:52 – 12:57 before correctly issuing a Penalty Charge Notice.

 

Conclusion

It remains the responsibility of the driver to ensure that there is a parking session in place before leaving their vehicle parked.

With this in mind I have upheld the Penalty Charge Notice and rejected your challenge.

I will still accept the discounted amount of £25.00, provided payment is received within 14 days of the date of this letter.

Payment can be made by post to the address

 

That was when I lost my rag, having received a ticket the day before when the wheel of my car slightly touched a double yellow line.

 

I realise my words were inappropriate, I was having a bad day and at the time felt the council very unreasonable.

[Jamberson]

Well, it looks to me like they did receive and read your appeal as they answer specific points.

 

Honsestly, I don't see an appeal going anywhere. Like they say in their letter, you left your vehicle parked up, without having paid for the space. I know the circumstances, but I can't see thek changing their minds.

[Theangel1971]

Have we really got so bad as a culture that we can't just nip into the bank  for the machine without getting a ticket . 

[honeybee13]

There was another option though, wasn't there? Was it possible for you to use the Ringo app?

 

HB

[Theangel1971]

i didn't have my phone on me or i would've considered that the easiest option, rather than walk all the way to the bank and back, which meant i was late for work.

[honeybee13]

I agree with Jamberson, I'm not sure how you can win this. You knew you couldn't pay by phone but you didn't have the means to pay for the parking, you say.

 

 How were you expecting this to work, I'm confused?

 

HB