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Middletonian

Log book loan help 3 loans same co. 2 repo's now 3rd one looming

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Apologies in advance for the long post... but I’m desperate now. 
 

I stupidly took out a log book loan a while ago thinking it was my best option.

 

After struggling with my finances and a couple of missed payments the vehicle was repossessed.

I managed to get the money together to pay my arrears and the £300 or so pounds they added on for the repo and get back on track. 
 

After a couple of months I got a text (well, bombarded with texts) about topping my loan up which, again stupidly, I decided to do.

It was actually a second loan running alongside the first. 
 

Again I fell into arrears and the car was repossessed, again adding the £350 or so fee.

I took out another loan in order to Pay get the vehicle back. 
 

I have again fallen in to arrears and I have attempted to lodge a complaint with the company, to which they have not really acknowledged and not advised me of the FOS timescales.

 

I took this to the FOS who advised to go back to the company and if I wasn’t satisfied go back to them.

I have submitted a further complaint to them this evening. 
 

I believe I have been let down on several points, affordability, granting of a second loan when I had struggled with the first, unfair repo charges, ignoring my attempts to make reasonable repayment proposals, extortionate fees to release my vehicle and pay for the repossession charges, amongst many other issues. 
 

My main problem however is that I have today been contacted by the repo company who have advised they have been to my address on numerous occasions and have not sighted the vehicle.

 

The chap told me today to speak to the lbl company to come up with a solution this week or they would report the car stolen to the police in order to have me arrested and the vehicle seized. 
 

My mental health has taken a hammering over this (it wasn’t great in the first place, hence the reckless financial decisions) and I fear this could push me over the edge. No car, no job, no house. I know I’ve only got myself to blame but any help would be hugely appreciated.

 

The loan is via bill of sale however I still have the actual log book. 
 

many thanks 

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So - Affordability is a prime concern but with LBL - Because they are secured - It is very hard to do a IRR Lending complaint unless they seriously overvalued the car. 

What are the amounts they are talking to you about? (Figures)

 

If there treatment of you has been detrimental and caused sever mental health issues then you can complain to the FOS and also you will be afforded time to come up with a repayment plan. 

 

Where is the Vehicle stored at the moment?

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thats the point of a LBL!!…. they DONT need any court approvement to enforce it..

 

as long as the bill of sale has been correctly registered 

there is quite frankly stuff and all you can do to prevent losing your car.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?452164-Log-Book-Loan-Guidance&p=4791345#post4791345

 

from my notes. [prob same as above!


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

logbook loan repossessions are not always legal, 
.
if linked to a CCA agreement or if the BOS has not been registered with the high court.
.
If BOS registered then yes they can reposses, 
but have to show registration and debt details.

 

Registration

 A bill of sale can only be enforced if it was properly registered.
 Since this is an expensive and difficult process, 
it is rare that this actually happens. 

.
However, failure to register the bill of sale renders it void,
and so renders any security on goods void.
.
 Consequently, before allowing any creditor to gain possession of your goods, 
ask to see a registered copy of the bill showing the supreme courts seal.
.
 Also a valid DN must be issued.

.
If linked to a CCA then can not reposses if on private property without a court order 
( but can if on public road and under a third has only been paid ).
.
Over a third, they need a court order wherever it is.
.
check for...[BOS]
.
Not Registered With The High Court In 7 Days
not registered AT ALL!
 .
Credit Agreement Details Not On The Bill Of Sale

You should also check that the name on the registration documents 
matches the name of the person who signed the BOS

On occasions these cars get sold on several times

.
how to check:
.
email:QBEnforcement@hmcts.gsi.g ov.uk.[no spaces]
.
ring:020 7947 7772 
.
write:
QB Enforcement Section, 
Room E15-E17, 
Royal Courts of Justice, 
Strand, London, WC2A

...
.
ideally you need the BOS number
.
however
they can search by the Reg Number
.
............... 

also see:
http://www.fca.org.uk/firms/firm-types/consumer-credit/consumer-credit-research/logbook-loans

.....

Do you have a problem with a Logbook Loan?
 With Citizens advice estimating that over 60,000 of these loans were taken out in 2014 alone
 an increasing number a causing severe difficulty and distress for borrowers.
.
 In this guide we explain what a logbook loan is, and how they work. 
 What you can do if you have a repayment problem,
 and what you can do if you have unknowingly bought a car with a logbook loan attached.
.
 Three golden rules for Logbbok Loans
.
 1)No matter how desperate you are to purchase a car, or raise cash, 
NEVER consider this type of Finance


 These loans are designed purely for the benefit of the lenders. 
With APRs of 400+%, little consumer protection, and aggressive debt collectionicon practices
 they should be avoided at all costs.
.
 2)When purchasing a used car from whatever source, private or trade, 
ALWAYS do a FULL GENUINE HPI CHECK costing around £20, 
these come with a guarantee against any form of existing finance, including lbl's
.
 3)If you have any problem with a Logbook Loan, 
your first step is ALWAYS to check that the Bill Of Sale has been registered
 with the High Court. You can do this here-
.
 to check if registered
.
 Contact Details
.
 QB Enforcement Section
 Room E15-17
 Royal Courts of Justice
 Strand
 London
 WC2A 2LL
 DX 44450 Strand
.
 Telephone: 020 7947 7772
 Fax: 0870 324 0024
 Email: QBEnforcement@hmcts.gsi.g ov.uk
.
 You may read on the internet that your BOSicon will be void if witnessed by your lbl lender
.
 Since the OFT( as was) lost the attestation case on appeal by 2 to1 this is NOT the case
.
 full details here http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup...method=boolean
.
 Logbook loans are a form of credit dating back to the Victorian era, 
derived from the 1878/1882 Bills Of Sale Acts, with terms and conditions to match in many cases.
.
 Problems are many fold from extortionate charges by lenders for calling a customer, 
to repossessions where owners have been left at the side of a busy road,
 unable to get to work, and even sexual harassment via debt collection.
.
 Poor practices abound, unsurprising when there is no incentive for lenders 
to ensure their customers understand the terms or can afford the repayments.
 In fact the very nature of this form of finance could be seen to encourage bad behaviour
 – why carry out affordability checks if a single missed payments means you get to keep 
 the money and takeaway the car?
.
.
 How does it work?
.
 When you take out a logbook loan you will be asked to hand over your vehicle’s logbook 
or vehicle registration document, which proves you are the registered keeper of the vehicle.
.
 You’ll also have to sign a credit agreement and a form called a ‘bill of sale’. 
This means the lender now owns your vehicle on a temporary basis 
but you are still able to use it so long as you meet all loan repayments. 
.
These documents are recognised by law in England, Wales and Northern Ireland 
but are not used in Scotland.
.
 The law only recognises a bill of sale if the lender registers it with the High Court. 
If it’s not registered, the lender must get a court’s approval to repossess your vehicle. 
.
You should check if the bill of sale is registered.
.

 What you should do if you have a repayment problem
.
 1) check your Bill Of Sale is registered as above
.
 2) the lender must send you a default notice which complies with the requirements of s87(1)cca1974
.
 allowing you fourteen clear days to remedy any default (which can be after one missed payment)
.
 You should , if your lender will not negotiate a reduced payment, straight away on receipt of the dn
.
 look to take out a time order. This gains you the protection of the court, which can look into the overall loan--

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/...t/Default.aspx

.
 What you can do if you have purchased a car with an existing logbook loan
.
DO NOT EVER CONFUSE A REPO FIRM [powerless] WITH A COURT BAILIFF!!

 

If you receive a letter threatening to repossess the car or a Court enforcement officer 
turns up at your home to take it, you may not be able to stop them. 

but if its a std car recovery firm, THEY HAVE ZERO LEGAL POWER 

and are NOT BAILIFFS ...FILM THEM ON YOUR PHONE!!
.
•ask to see proof of their identity and their authorisation to take the car
•ask to see the bill of sale document – they have to show you this if you ask for it
•if you feel threatened by how an enforcement officer is behaving, call the police
•ask for written confirmation of what has been taken
•get the contact details for the logbook loan company.
.
If the lender has taken your car, you can try to get it back 
and reclaim your money from the seller. 
However, this can be a costly and time-consuming process and is not guaranteed to succeed.
.
 If you want to get the car back, you could pay off the outstanding loan 
and then take the person who sold you the car to court, to try to get your money back.
 .
 If you just want to get your money back, you can take the person who sold you the car to court. 
 Always get independent advice before you decide to take someone to court.
.
 Some lenders are members of the consumer credit Trade Association (CCTA), 
which has a code of practice covering logbook loans. 
The code of practice says the lender must register the logbook loan on a register, 
so it will show up when you carry out a history check on the car. 
It also says they must obey certain rules when they repossess a car.
.
 If you are unhappy with the way a logbook loan lender or its enforcement officers have behaved, 
find out whether they are a member. If so, you can complain directly to the CCTA.
However this code is regularly ignored
.
http://www.ccta.co.uk/content/our-code.aspx
.
 Finally both the Financial Conduct Authority and the Law Commission are investigating 
Logbook Lending  and the associated legislation, 

full details here--
.
http://www.fca.org.uk/firms/firm-typ.../logbook-loans
.
http://lawcommission.justice.gov.uk/...ls-of-sale.htm
.
for anyones info, you must act immediately on receipt of a default notice
.
What you should do if you have a repayment problem
.
 1) check your Bill Of Sale is registered as above
.
 2) the lender must send you a default notice which complies with the requirements of s87(1)cca1974
 allowing you fourteen clear days to remedy any default (which can be after one missed payment)
.
 You should , if your lender will not negotiate a reduced payment, straight away on receipt of the default notice look to take out a time order. This gains you the protection of the court, which can look into the overall loan--
.
https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/...t/Default.aspx

Bills of Sale Act does not apply in Scotland,
just to reassure you from the Money Advice Service *Taking out a logbook loan in Scotland*

  In Scotland, ‘bills of sale’ cannot be used as security and are not legally binding.
  Lenders in Scotland are therefore likely to be operating under different credit arrangements.
  If the logbook loan is a ‘hire-purchase agreement’ or a ‘conditional  sale’, your consumer rights and protection under the Consumer Credit Act  1974 will apply.
.
worth a read
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?472038-ACF-THe-funding-Corp-illegal-repo-now-DCA-Chasing-loan&p=4972172#post4972172


.

dx

 


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Thanks so much for the replies. 
 

I am a bit lost at the moment with regards to what has been paid and what is outstanding.

Having to pay for the repossession twice confused things a bit for me as to what has been paid towards the loan and what has gone to the repo company. 
 

I have requested a breakdown of what has been paid and what is outstanding, alongside a copy of the bill of sale. 
 

I haven’t made a payment for a while but I have sent them a message this evening advising I have been in touch with the FOS and a brief outline of my points.

 

I have also appealed to their better judgement with regards to pausing the repossession action whilst a complaint is assessed, and that if a fair repayment plan can be reached I am happy to resume payments. 
 

Fingers crossed but not holding much hope at the moment. 

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can I just point out some glaringly obvious things that might not be apparent to you.

 

the repo guys ARE NOT BAILIFFS

they have ZERO LEGAL POWERS to do or enforce anything.

 

they can SCARE YOU all they like by saying things like you can be arrested and it will be reported to the police

but THERE IS STUFF ALL THEY CAN DO ABOUT ENFORCING WHAT THEY TELL YOU.

esp if the car is on PRIVATE LAND or locked away. [hint hint]

 

best idea is to FILM THEM on your mobile phone and make sure you ID who the company is and their vehicle and the powerless operators of the truck that turn up. record everything they say.

 

they MUST possess a copy of the default notice the original creditor has issued [who is??]

they MUST posses a copy of the bill of sale and it must be stamped by the court within 7 days of its date.

 

and even THEN , you DO NOT HAVE to hand over the car, regardless to all their willy waving.

 

get an SAR running to the OC.

 

 

 


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Quick update, woke up to a text from the repo guy that threatened police sent at about 5:30am informing me the vehicle had been taken and to contact CCP to arrange payment to get it back within 14 days. 
 

When he called me on Monday he did say I had until the end of the week to sort it, hence furthering my complaint to the FOS and requesting they pause action until a satisfactory compromise had been reached. 
 

Not to sure where I stand now, or what leg I have to stand on!

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Parked round the corner from my house (only on street parking where I live and nowhere to lock it up). I have asked if he was supplied with a copy of the default and BOS but radio silence now. 

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not a lot you can do if its was on public street sadly.

 

who is this LBL Co.?

 


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Ok well thanks for the help it is appreciate. It’s Car Cash Point. Will press on with the FOS hopefully can salvage something from the situation. 

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oh god not that lot.

 

 


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Thanks for this.

Would this suggest that the repo fees I’ve paid so far are unreasonable, and should actually count towards the repayments towards the loan?

 

Little bit lost with everything and the stress at the moment.

Sorry if I’m coming across as a bit dim, just trying to work out options and not beat myself up for my stupidity. 

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they cant charge repo fees

either get them refunded or take off the balance yes.

 

you need to seriously get all these bills of sale

I cant understand why you have not got copies of everything.

its a legal requirement for them to send/give them to you

esp the bill of sale - that's an important court document that must be registered at the court and stamped.

have you not got ANY of the agreements you signed?

 

sorry but it looks to me like this IS a classic case of repeated irresponsible lending

did you complaint about this under ALL the agreement numbers or just one loan?

 

 

 

 


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The complaint is about both, I asked for the bill of sale on Tuesday alongside a breakdown of what has been paid and their charges. Then asked for a full SAR yesterday which they said they would send to me in due course. 
 

I have copies of the agreements I signed on the day but not the bos this was never supplied. 
 

With regards to a previous message about overvaluing the vehicle, the loans were only about £1000 or just over between the two of them, however this would put the fees well over the cost of the vehicle when factoring interest rates, which figures should I be looking at in this regard?

 

Thanks for all your help, the correspondence I’m getting seems to be being drip fed so will update as and when I can. Hopefully someone else might see all this and benefit from my mistakes!

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please scan up all the agreements to one multipage PDF

read upload


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Attached. Sorry about the delay. 
 

The first few pages seem to have gone out of sync when uploading. Sorry about that. 
 

As yet no reply from the company to advise of how much the arrears are to release the vehicle. 
 

edit: this is the second load agreement can’t seem to find the first I think it may still be in the car... I imagine it will be pretty identical though except it was £500

convert-jpg-to-pdf.net_2019-10-17_22-19-27_2-compressed.pdf

Edited by Middletonian

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urm… 

 

pers I think that agreement is unlawful under numerous points:

 

£2778.64 for a £660 loan over 156 weeks..crikey!! is that 300% int rate allowed over such a long period [3yrs!]?

 

6.4.3 costs associated with ENTERING upon the address ...NO they CANNOT DO THAT THEY ARE NOT BAILIFFS

 

3.3. after issuing a default notice they can take possession of the vehicle without going to court - WRONG!! [1/3rd payment]

 

cant see a court stamp on that bill of sale. 

 

can't see dated signitures by you, them or a witness on it!! on the same BOS page 

 

5.1.1 must have an MOT ..cant see that in BOS rules!!

 

5.1.2 may enter the address at anytime to inspect the goods! - no cant see that in the BOS rules!!

 

 

all below 6.1.5 - they or their agents may enter at remain at any address ….

 

 

 

 

 


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So that ‘BOS’ is just my copy of the stuff that was signed on the day. Obviously the copy’s they took were fully signed. Still no word on when I’ll get the info I have requested (stamped BOS etc)

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This morning I have received a ‘breakdown’ of the fees however it does not show how much has already been paid in respect of bailiff fees and recovery admin fees. I have asked for this to be clarified as I think it is hidden within the other payments. Still no BOS after two or three requests. 
 

020496

Due

Paid

Balance

Principal

£556.74

£183.51

£373.23

Interest to

£1,002.48

£963.20

£39.28

Bailiff Costs

£450.00

 

£450.00

Recovery Admin Charge

£150.00

 

£150.00

Late Pmt Fees

£324.00

 

£324.00

H.P.I. Alert Charges

£10.00

 

£10.00

 

£2,493.22

£1,146.71

£1,346.51

       
       

021403

Due

Paid

Balance

Principal

£660.00

£239.99

£420.01

Interest to

£1,370.94

£637.31

£733.63

Late Pmt Fees

£444.00

 

£444.00

 

£2,474.94

£877.30

£1,597.64

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Have court bailiffs been involved ever?

 

Late fees

recovery admin fee

are unlawful get reclaiming

 


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No never had any contact from court bailiffs. 
 

I have submitted a further complaint to them with regards to irresponsible lending.  

I have cited that upon taking both loans out they only looked at three months bank statements each time.

 

One statement showed a failed payment to another credit company.

Had further due diligence been done they would have seen that at the time I was surviving on credit and had several defaults. 
 

I will also add to it the charges as you mention.

In the above table would you say the bailiff costs, recovery admin and late payment are all unlawful?

 

Thanks again for your invaluable input. 

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Naughty then to claim powerless recovery agents are bailiffs

reclaim that too

and complain recovery truck men are not BAILIFFS


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Honestly dont think that bos is in the correct format and is void

 


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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What is it about the BOS as such. Obviously will know more when they eventually send stamped copy, if they have one! 
 

What does that mean for me if it is not reg properly or incorrect format?

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they cant rely upon it so it falls back to the CCA loan agreement and its T&C's only

 

plenty of logbook loan and bill of sale threads to read here on CAG.

 

dx

 

 

 

 


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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