Friends rent arrears CCJ - HCEO action at my address as their belongings are here - Help!!

[heyes]

I recently bought a restoration-project car (relatively low value, approx £500) from a friend who has debts, including a recent CCJ (in favour of their landlord, following eviction for unpaid rent).

 

The CCJ is subject to forthcoming HCEO enforcement action, and I'm concerned about the situation, particularly because the seller was my neighbour - and after eviction stayed with me for a couple days before moving on. Their landlord is sending mail (including a HCEO notice) for them to my address.

 

I have a purchase receipt, dated after issue of the CCJ, and can show exchange of money from my account. I bought it without a V5 and any registration details - so, because I don't know how to inform DVLA haven't yet contacted them regarding purchase/new keeper/SORN/etcetera.

[dx100uk]

shouldn't be a problem.

 

the landlord can send what he likes but the defendant is he's not resident there neither is he listed on say voters etc

 

its a CCJ, to all effect you can totally ignore the bailiffs, there is no right of forced entry.

 

as for the car you have good title, just not resolved the paperwork issues yet.

 

is it in the open but on private land?

can you not stick it in a garage?

 

dx

 

[heyes]

4 hours ago, dx100uk said:

is it in the open but on private land?

can you not stick it in a garage?

 

Thanks.

 

It's outside my garage, on a communal (including my former neighbour's home) parking area.

 

My garage is used for storing (and full of) my stuff, and moving the car elsewhere (for subsequent restoration/sale) is something I'm currently exploring - but meantime it remains visible and easily accessible. Plus, it's convenient to have it where it is, so that I can easily do minor jobs (replace detatched steering, refit glass, etcetera).

 

I'm aware of the potential for the situation being misinterpreted as a 'fake/contrived/bad faith deal, between friends, to thwart creditors', and hence a determined HCEO taking control of it.

 

Overall, I think it likely a sensible HCEO won't bother - but I want to do what I can to reduce and prevent inappropriate/unwanted enforcement.

[heyes]

I'm facing a HCEO visit for a debt not owed by me.

 

I don't intend to let them enter, and want to do what's required to prevent enforcement action.

 

The debtors are my friends, formerly my next-door neighbours until eviction (for rent arrears) on Sept 16 - following which they stayed with me for one day, leaving on Sept 17. They're now homeless, and I have no forwarding address.

 

Belongings of theirs (clothing/keepsafes/bed/etcetera, all of which are of minimal value and/or things which can't be taken) temporarily remain at my address.

 

The Creditor, their landlord, who knows (we've spoken about the issue) the debtors aren't here, and that their possessions are, has provided my home address for service of documents/enforcement in this matter.

[dx100uk]

threads merged 

please keep to one thread.

 

 

[heyes]

ok, thanks.

 

I separated them because I believe they deal with different aspects of the matter, and hence are more relevant as individual threads.

 

I welcome further clarification, and hope they can be restored to separate threads - with my original title, rather than the replacement.

[dx100uk]

just type I know what I just said.

 

I've retitled the thread to p'haps better attract the experts to help

not seen many of them around of recent sorry.

 

bottom line is though, there is NO right of forced entry on CCJ's end of!

and ofcourse the extra costs are not your problem.

 

so as long as you for want of a better word ignore them.

they'll eventually go away

though the car , IF they can ID it [hint hint]………..

remove the number plates

cover it up.

or atleast cover the VIN number in the windscreen!

 

dx

 

 

 

[heyes]

On 13/10/2019 at 02:36, dx100uk said:

as for the car you have good title, just not resolved the paperwork issues yet.

 

dx

 

 

Further reading suggests I'll face problems, in not being able to meet the criteria outlined elsewhere (on site).

Specifically...

 

1 V5c/New Keeper supplement.
Restoration project, bought with no documents.
Cannot notify DVLA, because vehicle identity not known.

 

2 Proof of Purchase / sales receipt.
Payment by cash can be problematic
My bank statements show various outgoings - to seller, but not easily verifiable.

 

3 How the purchase came about.
Not a general sale on gumtree, Ebay, etcetera. Purchase via a friend or relative can be problematical.
Purchase was to directly offset money owed to me (I'd provided my debit card to my friend, so that he could cover accommodation/food/etcetera), so that I can resell vehicle to recover an amount equal to that provided to the seller.

 

4 Copy of vehicle insurance.
Cannot insure with no vehicle identity documents.

 

5 Evidence that road fund licence has been purchased / SORN.
Cannot SORN with no vehicle identity documents.)

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by heyes

[brassnecked]

Is vehicle on SORN in your name, would be good idea to SORN.  following DX advice is good, if vehicle looks a banger HCEO highly unlikely to bother with it,  unless a Ferrari, or some other exotic, they would probably pay more attention to another neighbours car parked nearby

[ericsbrother]

Are you still getting emails from any of the parties? if so tell them that you do not consent to your pwersonal data being processed in this way and that you will report it should the continue. If ther LL used a solicitor I wouild be letting them know in no uncertain terms that they should tell ther  client to pack it in

[heyes]

8 hours ago, brassnecked said:

Is vehicle on SORN in your name, would be good idea to SORN.  following DX advice is good, if vehicle looks a banger HCEO highly unlikely to bother with it,  unless a Ferrari, or some other exotic, they would probably pay more attention to another neighbours car parked nearby

Thanks.

Without V5/new keeper slip I don't know how to SORN - and have asked DVLA for advice.

[Peterbard]

,OK 

Firstly forget about court , at least for now and possibly for ever, dont pay any fees direct to anyone. NO one has ever won a case over something like this, however, many have suffered £1000 in costs for following inaccurate advice.

 

I suppose this will be arrears of payment for rent or damages to next door. Was it the same Bailiff company enforcing this as performed the possession? Anyway.

 

Forgive me if you have already replied to the following.

Was a Notice of enforcement received, where was it addressed.

Where in the timeline was it sent, before the CCJ or after, if so how long after.

 

The reason for this Is, if the order of enforcement had not been received by the bailiff or until alter the warrant was issued to your friend, you could have bought the car, with no repercussions.

 

£500, probably get £50 to 100 at auction, after costs, just not enough in it for them

I think they will be convinced you know where he is, hence the pressure. I dont think they will be interested in the car or anything else from you, 

 

I did notice someone saying that VAT are not payable on HCEO fees. They are of course. These Bailiffs are self employed and therefore liable for tax.

The mentions I have seen refer to the officers Firm of HCEO who are not self employed themselves of course, they are employed by the firm..

 

The creditor firm may be asked to pay VAT on the fees he has to pay the HCEO business(to start enforcement for instance), and it is those fees that he may be able to reclaim though his own business account, in the normal way.

You cannot reclaim tax someone else has paid, unfortunately.

 

If you suspect fees are out of order, first step is always complain to the bailiff and the creditor.

Court is never necessary in these circumstances, no legitimate adviser would ever bring the subject of  high court hearing up. Ludicrous nonesense.

Edited October 14, 2019 by Dodgeball

[heyes]

Thanks.

 

Debt is rent arrears.

 

Marstons are the HCEO, and I don't know if they enforced possession (tenants left voluntarily before it).

 

Notice of Enforcement issued Oct 11, sent to my address. The CCJ would have been sometime in August.

 

Am I correct in believing that my purchase, after issue of CCJ but before Oct 11, is valid?

 

[Peterbard]

Generally there are two actions, one for repossessions under sections 8 or 21 of the Housing ac, and a CCT action for arrears etc

 

In regard to the sale to you of the car..

 

When an enforcement warrant arrives at the HCEO office and is acknowledged by them, all goods that are the property of the debtor become "bound"  to the enforcement power and the bailiff enforcing under it.

 

If you had acquired the car in good faith and for financial consideration, you would also acquire good title, and if this is agreed the bailiff cannot take your car. Whether or not the bailiff agrees, does not effect his power to enforce otherwise..

 

If he does disagree and remove goods. It just means that a court may either believe your case or that of the bailiffs. 

On auction( sale) which can occur in either case, if the bailiff is found to be wrong, you can claim goods or money back, from sale or otherwise.

 

Generally if the bailiff sees there are reasonable grounds to believe you, he will just withdraw.

 

The way that Proceeds of sale are distributed are in Schedule 12 Part 51of the TCE 2007.

 

As said, at the value you quote none of this should happen, this is because the fees required by  the EA , auctioneer etc. would not be covered by the proceeds of sale.

[brassnecked]

If the car can't be driven and had to be carried the cost of hiring the tow truck would well exceed the auction value as DB indicates.

[Peterbard]

"Am I correct in believing that my purchase, after issue of CCJ but before Oct 11, is valid? "

 

Sorry to answer directly.

If you can show you purchased the vehicle before the Bailiff received the Warrant of control from the High Court, You have acquired the car before any enforcement power has been issued, so it is unequivocally yours.

[heyes]

17 hours ago, Dodgeball said:

When an enforcement warrant arrives at the HCEO office and is acknowledged by them, all goods that are the property of the debtor become "bound"  to the enforcement power and the bailiff enforcing under it.

 

Thanks.

 

I don't know the date of arrival/acknowledgement - just the issue date (Oct 11) of the Notice of Enforcement