Drowning in Debt and very worried for my elderly friend

[joeblogs]

I'm not sure which forum this post should go on, so admin please move if necessary.

 

I am helping an elderly disabled friend who has about £30K unsecured civil debt, 2 credit cards Nationwide & Barclaycard, Nationwide loan and overdraft.  Nationwide are changing their authorised overdraft charges to 39.9% on 11.11.19. yet unauthorised overdrafts are going to be free.  The same thing is going to happen with all high street banks, but Nationwide are charging the most APR.

 

Anyway my friend is in receipt of PIP & I.B. ESA.  He has no assets and was considering bankruptcy.  He has no assets, doesn't own a home, council property, no car, up to date with all priority outgoings.

 

I have called Nationwide with him consenting and they will not accept a 60 month repayment consilidation loan for their debts of £285 per month at their lowest rate of 2.5% APR to which they said 'no' and have done nothing but keep pestering him on his mobile.  I have blocked their number as they called 5 times in half an hour.  They have said they will be calling back on Friday and want a proposal.

 

I want to know if Nationwide or Barclaycard send him a County Court Summons he will definitely have no available income as his family are helping him out financially, but can't continue to do so due to the increasing debts and the new APR.  If the Summons shows a Nil offer and he gets a CCJ put against his name, after 6 years will Nationwide and Barclaycard still be able to enforce the debts.  I read that if a CCJ is in place, the creditor can enforce the debt long after the 6 years have passed and the limitation act does not apply to the 6 years - is this correct?

 

I think for his own sanity he should ignore these greedy creditors who have had £1,000's out of him over the years, but not sure about the CCJ as I always thought that if you had no contact with a creditor for 6 years that the debt fell off your credit file along with any CCJ and defaults, although the debt is still owed, it is no longer enforceable.

 

Also can a Bailiff get a Warrant to enter his property for civil debts once a CCJ has been registered.

 

Any advice would be gratefully received.

[AndyOrch]

Thread moved to the appropriate forum Debt management and Debt self-help

 

Andy

 

[AndyOrch]

Quote

 I read that if a CCJ is in place, the creditor can enforce the debt long after the 6 years have passed and the limitation act does not apply to the 6 years - is this correct?

 

An action cannot be brought on any judgment after the expiry of 6 years from the date it became enforceable. The term “action” only applies to the commencement of fresh proceedings on a judgment, it does not include enforcement proceedings so, strictly speaking, for enforcement purposes and enforcement proceedings, no limitation period applies. However, any delay in enforcement on the part of the judgment creditor will affect any award of interest as recoverable interest is limited to 6 years on a judgment that is executed after the expiry of the 6 year period.

Court permission is required to enforce a judgment debt that is more than 6 years old. In a particular case of Warrants of Execution, these must be renewed after 12 months if they have not been enforced. Further, the court is entitled to take account of delay and enforcement when exercising its discretion to grant any Order sought.

[joeblogs]

Thank you Andyorch for your reply.  I am so sorry but I don't understand your answer ;-((

 

I am worried if the creditor/s could apply for the bailiff to enter his property.  He won't answer the door to anyone, but I'm worried the court could give permission to force entry - can the court give the creditor that amount of power for civil debts?.

 

The possible CCJ I cannot get to grips with.  I think what you are saying that if there is a CCJ the debt never ends as the creditor can return back to court to enforce it.  Is this the same for a Debt Collection Agency who may have bought the debt.

 

Sorry I sound really stupid but could you please explain it to me again.

[AndyOrch]

Just now, joeblogs said:

Thank you Andyorch for your reply.  I am so sorry but I don't understand your answer ;-(( You questioned the Statue of limitations for CCJs....thats my response..they can only enforce it with permission of the court after 6 years.

 

I am worried if the creditor/s could apply for the bailiff to enter his property.  He won't answer the door to anyone, but I'm worried the court could give permission to force entry - can the court give the creditor that amount of power for civil debts?. Not on CCA1974 regulated debts...only Court Bailiffs could attend with a warrant of control ...but only if he lets them in

 

The possible CCJ I cannot get to grips with.  I think what you are saying that if there is a CCJ the debt never ends as the creditor can return back to court to enforce it.  Is this the same for a Debt Collection Agency who may have bought the debt. Makes no difference if its the original creditor or a DCA that has bought the debt once they have judgment they have 6 years to enforce it...or execute it....after that time they require the courts permission.

 

Sorry I sound really stupid but could you please explain it to me again. No problem its a lot to get your head around when you're new to the murky world of debt collections and CCJs.

 

[joeblogs]

Dear Andyorch, thank you so much for breaking it down for me, now I understand.

 

I will talk to the elderly gent and explain to him. 

 

It may be that neither of the creditors will go for a CCJ but just want to be able to explain all the options.

Debt is horrible, he's out of his mind with worry, I hope if a bailiff does turn up that they don't visit his neighbour's house as he lives in a very small cul de sac where everyone know everyone.

 

Nationwide have been offered a very substantial monthly amount, but they still want more, well when I heard about it, I said about not acknowledging the debt anymore as they won't accept the offer.  Nationwide are calling him again tomorrow on one of their other numbers, not sure what he should say to them. 

 

Finally, if he receives a Summons, should he acknowledge it and I know his income and expenditure is in deficit as his family have been helping, should he put NIL offer, or just ignore the Summons.

 

Sorry for all the questions and thank you so much for all your help.

 

 

[dx100uk]

the original creditors will not go for CCJ's

they'll sell the debts on to powerless DCA's , they might.

 

what don't you simply WRITE to the current debt owners using our pro rata letter from the debt collection section of our library

 

they are DUTY BOUND to help debtors.

should they refuse the offer 

then sent letter two saying he will only pay £1PCM till he dies.

 

what is the current status of all his debts from his credit file?

are they even showing?

any defaults?

 

dx

 

[joeblogs]

Thanks again Andyorch, a breakdown and email was sent to Nationwide CEO himself offering £285 per month with the help of family, Nationwide said 'no'. 

 

It has only just started, so no defaults and Barclaycard are not aware yet although they will also get an email of offer. 

 

I've blocked his phone and so far today there have been 8 missed calls despite the fact they called yesterday and said they would call back tomorrow. Today is the first day of the missed payment, so very early stages.

 

The two creditors have made so much compounded interest over the years and still the old boy is trying to pay by going without, but his family are putting their foot down now and saying they aren't paying anymore than what they have offered, in fact, they have took that offer off the table.

 

Will wait for their phone call tomorrow, I will try to be with him for part of the day to see what they have to say, but I think enough is enough now. 

 

The family helped him open another high street bank, cancelled all monies going into his account and they are now being paid into the new account, and cancelled all Direct Debits and set them up in the new account so Nationwide can't 'self help'. 

 

Thanks for all your advise, it's much appreciated especially when this gentleman suffers in agony every day of his life and the worry of this debt is getting to him.  I will support him as much as I can and will come back and report updates if that's ok.

[dx100uk]

good work!!

 

stuff 'em!!

 

dx

 

[brassnecked]

Bet there are some unlawful fees added in there as well.

[stu007]

Hi

 

 

as they are constantly calling even after being asked to stop (as they should then put it in writing) you should send them the Harassment by Telephone from our CAG Library:

 

I would also add to it that they are on the benefits that you mention and are therefore classed as vulnerable.

 

I would also suggest that you get a letter done giving you authority to act on that persons behalf in any and all dealings signed by them and sent it to the respective creditors as well.

 

I commend you for helping this person but could I just air caution with dealing with this by phone, if you cannot record the phone call then it is your word against them.

 

I would insist that everything is in writing only and anything you send to them in writing you ensure to keep a copy and get free proof of posting from the post office. You need to keep a good paper trail.

 

 

[brassnecked]

Good advice from Stu,  once letter sent  log time date of all calls,  if you haven't alreadyif friend has smartphone and it is that they keep calling a call recording app might be useful, to record at least one of the calls, make sure all are logged as to time date, frequency per day,  if they call twice an hour say.  this will ground evidence to use when you have to take action against them for the harassment.

[joeblogs]

Thanks everyone for all the advice, well he's waiting for the dreaded phone call today.

 

They tried a total of 8 times yesterday, 4 calls between 4.02pm, 4.13pm, 4.19pm and 4.30pm.

 

Just checked his phone and they've just called again.  I blocked their number yesterday, however, today they are going to be calling on another number from another department.  I told the gent to tell them he is seeking debt advice and to put everything on hold until the end of November.

 

He's due to have a shoulder replacement in January and will need a lot of care which his family are going to give.

 

I'm not sure he should go bankrupt next year as he is getting really upset, crying and the first payment was only missed yesterday.

 

I will update you later today.

 

Thanks again.

[brassnecked]

Is he using a smartphone?  If so get him a call recording app on there, if phone is Huawei, or Honor, there is an apk to bake it directly into operating system, so press record when you answer.

[AndyOrch]

Probably wise to split this thread into 2 and create a  new thread for each Bank..otherwise this could get very messy.

In the mean time send both Nationwide and BC a request for a copy of the credit agreements.

 

Send BC  & NW a section 78 request for the credit cards and  also a section 77 request to NW for the loan.

Forget the overdraft for now.

 

All the instructions are contained within the following link

 

 

That will put them on notice and possibly reduce the amount of harassment

 

Andy 

[joeblogs]

Thanks so much Andy and everyone who has supported this thread.  I will look for the Barclaycard thread after this post.

 

So Nationwide made another 4 calls and we noted the times all within the hour.

 

Then the expected Nationwide call came through. The phone was on loadspeaker and I had a notepad ready to write prompts down for this gent.  I'm not sure if they use an Indian call center, but the man was pleasant enough asking about what money the gent gets each month, he gets PIP and IB ESA. So my friend told the caller that his family cannot support him anymore and that the offer to consolidate and repay the unrealistic £285 per month.  With me prompting he said 'if you want to make me bankrupt it will save me £680 as I don't own a car or house' - I was impressed.  In the end I took over the call with the gent's permission and have asked them to send my friend an 'authority for me to act on his behalf' which they are going to do, I also said about all these harassment phone calls and the caller took the number and said he would raise a complaint (if anyone still believes in the tooth fairy).  The caller said he will call back on Tuesday after he has spoken to his team members and other departments.

 

I am now going to send out your file letter section 78 request for the credit cards and 77 for the loan.  Can I please ask Andy what does put them on Notice mean?  Sorry for all the questions.  Now to CAG  library.  Oh and Barclaycard have not yet had a missed payment so should he wait untiil 18.10.19. to a send Section 78 letter to them.

 

One last thing, he received an email from Barclaycard last week which I don't understand saying:-

 

We need to let you know about some changes we’re making to your terms and conditions from 25 November 2019.

•	The three key changes are numbered below and outlined in the Summary of Key Changes leaflet
•	Some minor changes that may or may not affect you are also detailed in the Summary of Key Changes leaflet
•	To make the full T&Cs easier to follow and understand, we’ve reordered some of the clauses and simplified a few words, these changes have no legal impact and are not detailed in the Summary of Key Changes leaflet

All of the changes above are in the updated copy of your terms and conditions.

Here are the three most important changes: 1) Changes to transaction fees

Due to new regulations, the cash transaction fees we charge will be the same in the UK and abroad. From 25 November 2019, we’re introducing ‘cash fees’ on non-sterling cash transactions at 2.99% (there is a minimum fee of £2.99, except on gaming transactions, where there is no minimum fee). We’ll no longer charge any ‘non-sterling transaction fees’ on cash transactions made in foreign currencies.

 

[AndyOrch]

Quote

I am now going to send out your file letter section 78 request for the credit cards and 77 for the loan.  Can I please ask Andy what does put them on Notice mean?  Sorry for all the questions.  Now to CAG  library.  Oh and Barclaycard have not yet had a missed payment so should he wait untiil 18.10.19. to a send Section 78 letter to them.

 

 

 

By notice making this request informs them your not a numpty and know your stuff and this wont be a push over.You can send a section 78 request anytime...whether in arrears or not...its your legal entitlement...although creditors hate this request.

[joeblogs]

Thanks Andy

 

I'm doing the letters now.  I popped into see him today to find him crying, he showed me his phone, Nationwide had tried to call him 5 times in less than an hour. Thank goodness I blocked their number, so much for a formal complain being put in by McKenzie.

 

The family have him from lunchtime to day until tomorrow evening.  This is wearing me out and I feel so sad for the man.  Nationwide are relentless.  The letters will for by Recorded Delivery on Monday. 

 

Nationwide are calling back on Tuesday, how do I advise him to play for time - any suggestions are welcomed.

 

Again, thanks for all yours and everyones help.

[AndyOrch]

Should quieten down when that request hits the desk...in the meantime blocked calls dont hurt.Dont answer on Tuesday///sorted.

[dx100uk]

you don't speak ever again on the phone

dx

[joeblogs]

Thank you so much Andy, I am so happy, I'm going to call my friend now and tell him.

 

Can I please just ask one quick question, if you use a Debt Management Plan with one of the free organisations, am I correct in thinking that they come to an agreement with the creditors on your behalf and the debtor pays Step Change a monthly amount which they split on a pro rata basis between the creditors.

 

But what happens after 6 years have passed and the debt is still outstanding, is it then written off, or is the debtor expected to continue making payments every month until they die (if they haven't died before)?

 

I am sure that under the limitations act a debt is written off if there has been no acknowledgement or payment of the debt, so am confused as to how a payment plan would work as surely if it's not written off, I can't see any advantage in using a debt management system as it will surely extend the debt.

 

I going to call my friend now, thank you so very much Andy.

[AndyOrch]

You dont enter into anything until they comply with your section 77/78 requests.......wait for a response then we will provide further advice.

[dx100uk]

plenty of tales here in the same forum to read to get upto speed and answer all your questions above

 

it would also be far better to self admin any arrangement rather than using any DMP provider 

 

its very easy to do.

 

dx

 

[joeblogs]

Thanks dx,  I did have a quick read on Gator's thread (the one thread below this) and that's what concerned me, I agree it's much better for me to suggest the 'do it yourself' with my help route.  I will have a chat with my friend.

 

I also though that he might benefit from a Ring doorbell.

 

Thanks again to you and Andy for all your advice.

[dx100uk]

why waste money on a doorbell

any DCA doorsteppers that MIGHT come are totally powerless as are ALL DCA's

they are NOT BAILIFFS