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    • Hi all,   I hope this is the right forum to ask the question.    Today I have had a knock on the door, with a man claiming to be a roofer saying that he and his team is doing a big job near by and today there is some down time and they would like to go around the neighborhood to find extra jobs with a discount. He looked genuine enough and asked if I would like to have my gutters cleaned.  When he gave the price of 120 pounds and that he would do it straight away.  I agreed.    I was very busy today with back to back work meetings and I just left them doing the job.  Soon one of his team came to me again saying that while cleaning the gutter he saw some missing slated and rotten timber underneath, with some small birds nesting in the holes, asking if I would like to get it fixed.  I asked for a quote and he said no more than a couple of hundred and he can do it quickly.  If I don't fix it then potentially it would result in damages to the walls etc.  He wanted to show me the damages but I was in the middle of a meeting and just agreed, but insisted that I must be informed of any more work and anything more expensive I need to see a quote first before deciding.   So about two hours later they told me they have completed the job --- I did not observe them.  And to my estonishment they gave an invoice initially of 1750 pounds!  The reason, they explained was that they went on to the flat roof and find edge of the roof splines to be in a poor condition and decided to repair those for me.  They used concrete to secure them and was quoting 40 pounds each, for total of 41.  They also said they sealed the lead covers underneath.  The original job to fix the rotten timber was quoted at around 500 (already much more than I was expecting).  They gave me a discount which resulted in that 1750 figure.  They claimed repairing those were necessary as part of repairing the rotten timbers?  I am no expert but it didn't sound right.   I am definitely not happy and asked for an itemized breakdown of materials and labour before I will consider paying any of it. They then sent me an invoice of 1500 with no details at all.   It has now dawned on me that all of it feels so fishy.  I am considering my next actions:   - I am willing to pay for gutter cleaning - I am willing to pay for the repairs for rotten timber, IF they can provide proof of what they have done.  I am asking for before and after photos. - I am not willing to pay for the work I have not asked for and did not know of beforehand.  They tried to make it sound like I agreed to it, but I am quite certain I definitely did not.  However there is no proof, everything is verbal.   There are no contracts signed.  As of now I have not paid them a penny.   I wish to seek advice on if my next step actions are reasonable and what other courses I should take?  To be honest I am now really gutted that I opened the door for them, and I am now even not sure if they had actually replaced anything on my roof as I did not see any rotten timber being taken down, no waste whatsoever.  I am even more worried if the roof was damaged in the process.   I am sure they will be coming back to my house tomorrow to demand payment, so any advice on how to deal with them would be really helpful.  I also don't want to antagonise them, I have no idea who those people are, I checked their company and it looks like they only established it last year.   Thank you so much in advance!    
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Where do I file my claim


Greekos74
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My apologies for this post potentially being in the wrong section. I would like advice on where to file my county court claim letter from RBS saying they would not refund the charges I requested.

 

Do i file it in Scotlans as that is the location of their Head Office or do I file it in England as i live in Bolton and the account is with the Bolton branch. Any advice would be appreciated.

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Use the branch address in England or your case will fall under Scottish law. If you sent your letters to Scotland start again and send them to your local branch.

 

What's Best for You?

 

 

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Noooo - you serve your action from Bolton County Court, naming the RBS and their Edinburgh Registered Office as the address. I live in Scotland ant took Sky to court here, but served the documents on their Isleworth HQ - there is no problem in this, but there will be if you serve on the local branch as this could be thrown out as service has not been properly effected.

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Any branch of a bank can be used for the claim. I am in England, claiming against Yorkshire Bank, whose Head Office is in Glasgow, as it is part of the same group as Clydesdale Bank. I submitted my claim on MCOL using the address of my local branch and the case has been transferred to my local court as usual. I am now dealing with Clydesdales Legal Services in Glasgow, but my preliminary letter and LBA went to the branch.

 

Some Clydesdale customers in England have had their cases sent to the Scottish courts as they used the address of the Head Office in Scotland.

 

Please check your facts are accurate before contradicting.

 

What's Best for You?

 

 

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Oh dear. I contradicted because your advice is so blatantly wrong you run the risk of letting members having to re-run their actions TWICE, becasue the defender can appeal and reverse any ruling obtained. As a moderator, I appreciate your views are personal - for for something as basic as this, perhaps YOU shoud take further advice?

 

I will again restate for the absence of doubt - any legal action served on a corporate entity MUST be served on its registered office address. Failure to do so can and often results in the action being struck out or recalled after judgement due to the action being incompetent.

 

Take for example a bank - if you serve the branch - probably one of 400 or so branches, and staff there are unaware of passing the documentation to their legal department, or it is 'filed' by the brach, or indeed the branch closed and the summons is lying behind the door, can all happen in real life - and be appealed. The Registered Office is there for one thing only, for the service of official company documentation, and this will be set up to process such correspondence.

 

The issue being originally discussed whas the competence of service in Scotland or England (I have experience of both, do you?) and whilst it is possible service at a branch may be handled correctly, there is too much money involved to get it wrong - your lack of knowledge in this matter is breathtaking. Before continuing with such erroneous (and basic) misinformation, check it out with someone that has a little legal knowledge, as it will save members complaining of your mis-advice later. Your signature does indeed state your views are personal, that may be - but kindly do not rubbish advice that is factually and legally correct with your incorrect interpretations.

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This may help allay your fears Buzz, and clarify the matter for Greekos.

 

Civil Procedure Regulation 6.5(6)

 

Where –

(a)

no solicitor is acting for the party to be served; and

 

(b)

the party has not given an address for service,

 

the document must be sent or transmitted to, or left at, the place shown in the following table.

The table includes

 

Any other company or corporation

 

Any place within the jurisdiction where the corporation carries on its activities; or

Any place of business of the company within the jurisdiction.

 

This is the reason for my original post in this thread, although I did not feel it necessary to provide the full detail at that time. I have not heard of anyone having any problems with using this and thus enables cases in England and Wales to be filed using MCOL. I have no doubt that given Clydesdale's stance of attempting, and may I say usually failing, to have claims struck out on any minor technicality they would have thought of use of an incorrect address long ago.

 

However I have also found this, which gives some credence to your assertion Buzz but is less straightforward, and prevents the use of MCOL, which many claimants prefer. As the following must be stated:

 

'I state that the High Court of England and Wales has power under the Civil Jurisdiction and Judgments Act 1982 to hear this claim and that no proceedings are pending between the parties in Scotland, Northern Ireland or another Convention territory of any contracting state as defined by section 1(3) of the Act.'

Service out of the jurisdiction where permission of the Court is not required

 

CPR 6.19 Service out of the jurisdiction where the permission of the court is not required

(1)

A claim form may be served on a defendant out of the jurisdiction where each claim included in the claim form made against the defendant to be served is a claim which the court has power to determine under the 1982 Act and –

(a)

no proceedings between the parties concerning the same claim are pending in the courts of any other part of the United Kingdom or any other Convention territory; and

 

(b)

(i)

the defendant is domiciled in the United Kingdom or in any Convention territory;

 

(ii)

Article 16 of Schedule 1 or 3C to the 1982 Act, or paragraph 11 of Schedule 4 to that Act, refers to the proceedings; or

 

(iii)

the defendant is a party to an agreement conferring jurisdiction to which Article 17 of Schedule 1 or 3C to the 1982 Act, or paragraph 12 of Schedule 4 to that Act, refers.

 

 

 

(1A)

A claim form may be served on a defendant out of the jurisdiction where each claim included in the claim form made against the defendant to be served is a claim which the court has power to determine under the Judgments Regulation and–

(a)

no proceedings between the parties concerning the same claim are pending in the courts of any other part of the United Kingdom or any other Regulation State; and

 

(b)

(i)

the defendant is domiciled in the United Kingdom or in any Regulation State;

 

(ii)

Article 22 of the Judgments Regulation refers to the proceedings; or

 

(iii)

the defendant is a party to an agreement conferring jurisdiction to which Article 23 of the Judgments Regulation refers.

 

 

 

(2)

A claim form may be served on a defendant out of the jurisdiction where each claim included in the claim form made against the defendant to be served is a claim which, under any other enactment, the court has power to determine, although –

(a)

the person against whom the claim is made is not within the jurisdiction; or

 

(b)

the facts giving rise to the claim did not occur within the jurisdiction.

 

 

(3)

Where a claim form is to be served out of the jurisdiction under this rule, it must contain a statement of the grounds on which the claimant is entitled to serve it out of the jurisdiction.

In answer to your question, I do not have experience of claiming anywhere in the world before June, but I have done my best to ensure that any information I offer is factually correct, and if in doubt either do not post on the subject, or do some research. My sig is purely to make people aware that I am not a professional in this field, as most of us aren't.

I think it unlikely that any bank would allow staff to open post who might file court documents because they do not know the internal procedures for dealing with legal documents. Common sense would dictate that they would at the very least pass it to a superior for advice. I doubt if a claim could be struck out due to incompetence if the banks own internal procedures were so weak.

 

I have taken your advice and checked out the legalities in this issue and am satisfied that my original post was perfectly satisfactory.

 

Perhaps you too would check your facts before contradicting again Buzz

 

Greekos, I hope that you are now confident that you can claim very simply using your branch address as I originally posted.

 

What's Best for You?

 

 

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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MCOL is purely an E&W option (which is denied to us over-the-borderers!) unless we take the risk and prepare for some heavy commuting. As to the competence of service, I've come across the 'any place of business' however, this has been successfully challenged on a number of occasions due to staff not being briefed or knowledgeable in dealing with court papers, where the Registered Office is the proper place for service, and as such service can never be challenged for this alone.

 

As a consumer, anyone can take Clydesdale Bank to MCOL in England using their Glasgow Head Office address and this would be not only be competent, but the jurisdiction could not be challenged. Which is why the comment they 'had cases transferred to Scotland' was nonsensical - the bank would have no chance of challenging jurisdiction. They COULD however challenge an action served of their Bangor office (if they had one). So for avoidance of doubt, there is everything to gain, and nothing to lose by service on the Registered Office. The bottom line is that consumers need to ensure if an action in comteplated, you must ensure your paperwork is watrertight. It never ceases to amaze me at the petty issues raised by solicitors of defenders in their attempts at getting actions thrown out - and protestations of angst don't cut it. (My last experience of this was a SC action served on the local 'Social/DHSS/JobCentre' or whatever they are called these days. In court, the duty solicitor explained to the Sheriff that the action was incompetent as service should have been made on the Home Secretary in London (John Reid), not the Glasgow office. The Sheriff agreed, and despite an elquent argument from the pursuer noting that the solicitor was already in court to challenge his action proved service had been made, the action failed.

 

A little care, stops corporate might triumphing!

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I posted about 6 weeks ago re claiming £3778 charges from Halifax bank. Although I live in scotland (right on the scotland england border) I claimed in Berwick small claims court (i was advised by court that as my branch is in Gillingham in Kent i could do this). I received letter last week telling me that HBOS were paying full amount PLUS £120 court fee into my account which they did on Monday!!!!!!! Hang in there - you're in the right and the banks know it and are now running scared!!!!

Good Luck!! xxx

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