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    • Please bear with me here i shall try and make this short but with all the detail, but i need help ASAP as there is limited time allowed for this process. I have been with my company 4 years and have advanced through the technical ranks to my current position,  we have an annual report which goes from 0-4 and for three years i have never scored lower than a 3. I was promoted to the role i am in now as an area quality assurance lead and the location was for the NE ( i live in the NW) eventually a similar role became available for another role in the NW. I asked my line manager if he minded me applying for it and he had no issues, i applied sat the multi stage interview and was given the role. My role is now classed as "at risk" of redundancy as we are moving from 4 regions to two which means they are also moving from 4 roles to two roles in my position. Two people are considered safe and myself and another at risk, my question is what is the criteria to separate safe from at risk . In the documentation received from my company it is below, i have zero issues and i know cv against cv mine wins, i was even selected by the company as a company mentor because of my experience in engineering and leadership. This is a closed group of maybe ten people and i am the only non senior executive included.    ·         Performance and Behaviour : I have zero behaviour issues, no issues with performance from my current line manager.  ·         Performance Improvement/ Disciplinary Records   : Zero disciplinary's and no performance issues, in fact my line manager on record has said I'm forthcoming ·         End Of Year Rating : Issues explained below Now my line manager was leaving the company and he did tell me "there was some politics involved with you getting that role, the city build manager and head of area build had promised it to their lead engineer (something they had no right to promise as it has to go though the process ) anyway from day 1 it became very clear that i would not be accepted for this reason within their community although i did just try to help them achieve quality and specification as that was my role. After a few weeks it became very apparent as to why the role had been promised to their man, i found issues where properties had been signed off as ready to accept subscribers when they were not ready (for bonus and stat reasons) and several quality issues i discovered which we could remedy and improve our productivity (unfortunately this would highlight that these issues had been there and not dealt with) My new head of area build (part of this trilogy of him, city build manager and lead engineer)  clearly did not want me there (for the reasons stated) but paid lip service, i had highlighted that i needed to walk off some structured with our canter of excellence counterparts ( as this was part of my role to link in with them for national issues) and he responded by saying i am not to walk them off, and that we have sufficient engineers to do that task (by saying this he could make sure that the engineers would take them round to structures that are A not the ones i have highlighted, and B would have very minor issues) This battle went back and forth over the months where i tried my best to build up the relationship with  them, my attitude was ok you have made some mistakes here, but we are all a team and even though you have hidden issues i can help you remedy them and hopefully we can do so and keep them off the radar,  but they just never did, So moving forward to October last year (2023) this is getting near to annual review time, now i had helped the company out massively by working a substantial amount of weekends and nights to fix issues, and i said i would take most of the time as TOIL ( as agreed with by my previous head of area build) this was 30 days. My current head of area build said i needed to put my leave in as it had been flagged as having a large amount. When i did input the leave (it would result in me taking all of December off) he was unhappy with me and was extremely curt in his responses as he could find nothing on the system for my TOIL , i explained the situation, my line manager would ask if i could work the hours, i would, and when i wanted leave he would authorise (we had an good working relationship, he was an excellent manager) he ended up going to HR to ask their advice and a teams call was set up with myself, head of area build and HR, it was confirmed by HR that it was a company error, when you want to input TOIL there should be a dropdown option in the leave menu and one of the options would be TOIL, this had not been setup on mine. So the company authorised the leave explaining that this should have been done and hadn't, i did say that this is the way it had always been and pretty much everyone on my team then operated this way, TOIL had never been discussed and none of had this option available. So i entered my leave from 4th December - 2nd January,  My line manager was an outside contractor and was leaving the company on the 15th December. On my return i found that we had a new head of area build, it would be a temporary position as they were not going to fill the position permanently and he would be covering his role (Scotland) and this role (NW). I contacted him to say that i had not received my end of year report yet and when would this happen as i had not sat with my line manager tor mine. A little over a week later my HoAB and i had a teams call, it was a introduction meeting and end of year report, he said that he had received feedback from the outgoing manager and he had given me a 2 (i have as explained before never scored lower than a 3) he asked hoe long i had been in the current role (just over a year) as this grade can mean you are new to the role and need a little supervision, haven't built up relationships with stakeholders etc. So he explained what my grade and bonus would be and if i had any feedback, i explained that this was unfair, i had proof that i had not met my targets (i say targets as there were never really any set, but going from emails and conversation we have had, and the job description) i had even created Powerpoint presentations which were very complex into how our network works from beginning to end  as there was distinct lack of knowledge here and i am a lead trainer / assessor (this btw he was extremely impressed with) He did say he had spoken to people in the centre of excellence which o believe was the head of operations, and he did look confused as to the disparity in feedback from them and the original manager that wrote my report. I contacted HR to raising my concerns that i had not sat with my line manager to go through my report,  had i had the chance to do so, i could have rebutted anything said as i had proof of my achievements even though he had set no defined targets, i could prove that i had been extremely active in identifying and remedying issues, HR did come back to me and these are their comments  1) "Your rating was submitted by your manager at the time xxx xxxxxx and he should have carried out an EOY review with you. The rating would not have been provided in this review but feedback should have been shared" [this never happened] 2)  Initial ratings where then discussed and reviewed during a calibration process (for your team) this will have included HOABs and RDs. During this session ratings can be challenged and changed. I can confirm that your rating was not changed as a result of this session and it remained at the rating that xxx submitted. 3) xxx did provide thorough feedback to xxx xxx in a handover so if not already done so it may be worth speaking with him to understand that feedback further.   4) In terms of reputation and the concern you share – ratings are not made public and are private to each individual. 5) And this first line obviously is incorrect " As far as i can see this would be the only separator they could have measured me on to separate safe from not safe, and if so the company did not follow its own procedure. My current line manager said " an error had occurred as you had not received the option to  sir with your manager for your review, and the company needs to make sure this error does not happen again) Well then they are admitting there was an issue and it needs remedying not sweeping under the carpet. All of this is documented. To remind the rating of a 2 is not a concerning grade. Please see descriptor below Generally, needs little supervision but does on occasion require direction/supervision. Does not always anticipate changes to the work environment and could adapt more quickly. May be seen as a strong performer in certain situations or by some audiences but may not perform at that level in all situations. May need some development or guidance to carry out some elements of role. May not consistently demonstrate the right behaviours. May have been on Performance Improvement during the year but has since shown strong improvement        
    • Also, what is the value of the dress and have you refunded the purchaser?
    • Simon Case was at the Covid inquiry yesterday. Finally. ‘Eat out to help out’ launched without telling official in charge, Covid inquiry hears | Covid inquiry | The Guardian WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM Simon Case, who was responsible for Covid policy at time, calls Boris Johnson’s Downing Street the ‘worst governing ever seen’  
    • I think for the moment you will have to wait for the return of the dress to you And then take some decent photographs which will show the damage very clearly. You will have to provide these to parcel to go but also you will need them as evidence for the court if that's the way this matter goes . Let us know when you get the dress and you have the photographs. It would be helpful to see the photographs here. In the meantime I suggest that you start reading as many of the stories on the subforum as you can manage in 2 or 3 days and that means quite a lot. In particular read the pinned posts at the top of the subforum which will explain the principles involved which you will probably have to use if you bring the matter to court. When you have done the reading, when you have received the dress and when you have the photographs then come back here and we can go to the next step      
    • Solid blocks of text are very difficult for people to follow and especially when they are using small screens such as telephones. This discourages people from giving you the kind of help that you need. Please will you make sure that your posts are properly spaced and punctuated in future.  I have done this one for you on this occasion
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Speed camera evidence


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Hi folks,  I wonder if you can help.

 

I received a NIP.

I remember the day in question as it was very windy And I was returning from the coast with my friends children.

I am very sure I was not speeding.  

 

NiP did not give the option to view video or stills evidence with their paperwork.

I phoned to ask where I can view it and they told me that they had the evidence but that I could only view it if I went to court.

I said that can’t be fair re pre action protocol,

fair on me to allow me time to consider the evidence or good use of tax payers money.

 

They said that’s their policy now and so I asked them to put that in writing.

It would seem I will have to go to court to view the evidence then ask for another date to allow me consideration time .....

 

your thoughts people? 

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which pre-action protocol are you referring to? Often PAP is used relating to civil claims, and this is a criminal matter (either you accept a PCN if that is what they are offering, or it goes to a Magistrates Court as a criminal, not case).

 

There are Criminal Procedure Rules and Practice Directions (usually called Crim PR to distinguish them from the [Civil] CPR), but they don't include 'pre-action protocol', which is civil.

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/criminal/docs/2015/crim-practice-directions-I-general-matters-2015.pdf

includes:

 

Quote

Criminal Practice Directions -October 2015 as amended April 2016, November 2016, January 2017, April 2018, October 2018& April 2019

Case progression and trial preparation in magistrates’ courts
3A.4
CrimPR 8.3 applies in all cases and requires the prosecutor to serve:
i.a summary of the circumstances of the offence;
ii.any account given by the defendant in interview, whether contained in that summary or in another document;
iii.any written witness statement or exhibit that the prosecutor then has available and considers material to plea or to the allocation of the case for trial or sentence;
iv.a list of the defendant’s criminal record, if any; and
v.any available statement of the effect of the offence on a victim, a victim’s family or others.

The details must include sufficient information to allow the defendant and the court at the first hearing to take an informed view:
i.on plea;
ii.on venue for trial (if applicable);
 iii.for the purposes of case management; or
iv.for the purposes of sentencing (including committal for sentence, if applicable).

[/QUOTE]

 

I'd agree with the info the court has given you: The prosecution doesn't HAVE to provide you with the evidence prior to court.

That doesn't mean you can't ask, and they MIGHT, but don't HAVE to provide it until court.

 

Whatever you do, don't miss out on identifying the driver if you have been served a S.172 notice to furnish driver details ; that would be a separate offence by the keeper (6 points and a fine, on its own), and "I was waiting for a reply" wouldn't constitute  a defence.

 

Edited by BazzaS
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It's straightforward enough as Bazza has outlined.

At present you are being asked to identify the driver. You have an obligation to do this and it does not depend on any evidence being available to support the underlying speeding offence. Failure to comply will mean a visit to court and, if convicted, a hefty fine, six points and an endorsement code that insurers hate.

As far as the speeding matter goes, once the driver has been identified he should be offered a speed awareness course for that speed (provided the offence did not occur in Scotland and the driver has not done a course for an offence within three years of this one). The alternative is a Fixed Penalty (£100 and 3 points).

No evidence will be provided before either of these is accepted.

You either accept the allegation as it stands or not. If you do not the matter will be dealt with in court and only then does evidence need to be provided in order for you to enter a plea and the Criminal Procedure rules come into play. That evidence will almost certainly consist of statements to say that your vehicle was caught speeding by an approved device operated in the correct manner.

If you dispute this the burden shifts to you to prove that one or other of those is not so. You will need expert assistance to do this and even then it is very difficult. Simply turning up and saying "I am very sure I was not speeding" will not do. The cost of failure is high - you will pay an income-related fine of half a week's net income, a surcharge of 10% of the fine and prosecution costs which will start at £620 but may be more if the prosecution is forced to enlist expert evidence to counter your defence.

In most areas you can ask for "photographs to assist in identifying the driver" (obviously before you do so). They usually provide you with a website link. They do not have to do this and the photographs rarely help in either identifying the driver of supporting the speeding allegation (their purpose is to identify the vehicle). Such a request does also not stop the clock on the 28 days you have in which to reply. 

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Hi Folks,

Thank you for your help and advice.  I notified them that I was the driver immediately. 
 

I will probably just pay the fine and have the points (I had a speed awareness course 2-3 years ago) 

 

It really doesn’t seem fair or right though that they have the evidence yet won’t provide it unless I go to court and risk paying larger amounts.  
 

Thanks again for your help 👍👍

 

Edited by heathertippex
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Mmmm not one hundred percent sure! 
 

I remember it was very very windy. I remember seeing the speed van and checking my speed and then thinking is it a dual carriage way and 50 mph in which case I am guilty!!! 
 

They are claiming I was doing 81 in a 70  in which case I would have thought I was guilty regardless and this is why I wanted to see the evidence.  

 

They have since written to me as requested and confirmed that they will not show the evidence unless i take the risk of going to court 😳

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  • 1 month later...

i was doing 76 on the motorway.

The limit had been reduced from 70 to 50

 

therefore was over by 26

 

pleaded guilty and asked for court hearing

 

got fined and 6PP 

 

going to the court to defend myself did not help whatsoever, so now I have accepted the fine and moved on

 

I did post my case here and had lots of useful advice esp from Man in The Middle and Bazza

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  • 3 years later...

open

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 1 month later...

Update… though delayed in this update.  I decided in the end to take the points etc… I just had too many other things going on in my life to add this to the equation.. bitter pill to take but done and moved on.  Thank you for all help and assistance 👌

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