VCS PCN ONE - JOHN LENNON AIRPORT

[Ibiza27]

Hi All,

 

I can see there has been quite a few threads on the PCN notices from Liverpool John Lennon Airport, I have received two within a matter of 7 minutes.

 

Can anyone help me can I dispute or not?

 

I have attached pictures of the PCN notices I have received, the first one the contravention time is not correct it says 10:48 which I was not there at that time however the time on the camera is correct of course, and the car was parked there 3 minutes however cannot remember seeing the signs to say unable to park.

 

And the second one the time is correct but from 20:52:00 you can see car on the lines then at 20:52:42 the car has moved slightly and then 20:52:47 the car has moved again slightly and there are no brake lights on the car, indicating that the car was not actually stopped but moving very slowly.

 

Please could anyone help with writing an appeal or if it will get accepted - required ASAP as I only have a few days to get a discounted price.

 

Many thanks

 

 

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

Can you start another thread for the second ticket please? And could you copy and paste the questions from the forum sticky together with your answers onto both of the threads. The guys should be along to advise later.

 

 

Best, HB

 

 

[Ibiza27]

please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement: 25/09/2019

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]: 01/10/2019

 

3 Date received: 04/10/2019

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] N

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Y

 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] N

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A

 

7 Who is the parking company? Vehicle Control Services LTD

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Liverpool John Lennon Airport, L24 1YD

 

 

[FTMDave]

The experts will help shortly, but in the meantime read those other Liverpool airport/VCS threads.  You'll quickly see

   - these are not fines

   - airports are covered by bye-laws

   - appealing is a waste of time and can be counter-productive

   - VCS will kill a lot of trees while sending you "scary" letters but ultimately are paper tigers and will do nothing legal, because of course airports are covered by bye-laws.

[brassnecked]

Were you using a dashcam, as if was moving slowly the timed dated footage would be useful.

[dx100uk]

airport land covered by byelaws VCS cant over ride

you stopped for less than the 10 mins grace period.

 

pers i'd ignore until/unless you get a letter of claim

[Ibiza27]

25 minutes ago, FTMDave said:

The experts will help shortly, but in the meantime read those other Liverpool airport/VCS threads.  You'll quickly see

   - these are not fines

   - airports are covered by bye-laws

   - appealing is a waste of time and can be counter-productive

   - VCS will kill a lot of trees while sending you "scary" letters but ultimately are paper tigers and will do nothing legal, because of course airports are covered by bye-laws.

 

Hi,

 

I have tried to read all the threads but not understanding... people have said that they have taken them to court so I do not want to ignore and then realise I have to pay more than the quoted amount.

 

At least if I do reply within 14 days it is only £60 per fine.

 

Ideally would like someone to write a letter of dispute to support this?

 

Many thanks
Danielle

26 minutes ago, brassnecked said:

Were you using a dashcam, as if was moving slowly the timed dated footage would be useful.

 

Hi,

No unfortunately no dashcam.. but within 47 seconds the car has moved slightly which can be seen on the picture and no brake lights on the car on every single picture

[brassnecked]

Do a search on LJA VCS threads, they have no right to issue parking charges, let alone sue for them as airport is covered by By-Laws, and it would have to be a magistrates court not a civil charge from a Parking Cowboy, appeal is waste of trime as you don't want to ID the driver at this point.  Others will be along with more advice soon so hang fire a bit, no one says you will have to pay a bean.

[dx100uk]

You do not respond in any way

[Ibiza27]

I have looked at a lot of VCS threads and people have said that they have had to go to court so I am not taking the risk of not responding. 

 

Please can someone write me a template to send to them in regards to this case it will put my mind at ease at least then I can choose the next course of action after that, just means I have responded so should they reject I will still only have to pay the £60 rather than than the £100 

[dx100uk]

airport land covered by byelaws VCS cant over ride

you stopped for less than the 10 mins grace period.

 

pers i'd ignore until/unless you get a letter of claim

[honeybee13]

They hardly ever accept appeals if you read some threads. We never advise to pay.

 

HB

[Ibiza27]

But they are the ones who have actually put the incorrect time on which is not my error?

 

I cant just ignore as people who have done that have ended up paying over the odds which I do not want to do  

[honeybee13]

Where have you seen that other people have paid over the odds please?

 

HB

[dx100uk]

why have you got to pay anything??

 

 

[ericsbrother]

Look, thay hafe decided that you are going to pay them regardless so appealing wont get you anywhere. You have evidnece you werent stopped and you can use that later but wasting your time now is not the course of action we recommend.

 

What i wouild do is ask the DVLA who accessed your keeper details and waht was the supposed reasonable cause for doing so and when you get tis info you make a complaint to the ICO about the misuse of your data and get your MP involved.

 

VCS wont like being questioned about somehting they know or should know is wrong and will then drop the demand to save face and allow thejk to try and rip off other motorists instead

[Ibiza27]

If you ignore the increased charge, this can be registered as a County Court debt and a further £8 will be added to the cost.

 

Further failure to pay the charge within 21 days can lead to the County Court issuing a warrant to Civil Enforcement Agents (bailiffs). This will mean added charges and Civil Enforcement Agents (bailiffs) taking goods from your home to settle the debt.

 

I would rather not have the bailiffs involved and not having to pay the 50% increase. 

 

Sorry I am all new to this never received a fine before, is it possible if you could write a template?

 

So I need to respond to the PCN within the 7 day period so if I do have to pay its only the discounted price... on the PCN notice it does state

”please note that we have either obtained your name and address as the registered keeper of the vehicle from DVLA in accordance with the road vehicles (registration and licensing) regulations 2002.

 

Then goes onto say if you consider such information has been used or obtained inappropriately you may complain to DVLA. 

[ericsbrother]

whay are you wittering on about responding withn 7 days when our advice is dont appeal.

IT IS NOT A FINE.

read a load more threads in the private parking section and you will find the info you need including the correct section of the dvLA to send the request to.

there is no template, you are just asking for the information as laid out in the couple of sentences in my previous post

[brassnecked]

They have NO LEGAL RIGHT to charge you diddly, these people are the old cowboy clampers who changed MO whan clamping was outlawed.  A bailiff can only be involved if they go to court, you don't defend it and they get a nice Default judgment, and don't pay, One day a Distict Judge is going to question VCS over these cases, and the Witness RobOclaim  Statements are tantamount  to perjury. That's how they make money they are not and never have been entitled to.

[Ibiza27]

Ok I understand that they are making money but I don’t want the stress of being faced with going to court. 

 

Therefore in order to acknowledge the NOTICE I need to send an email, I will not outline who was driving I just clearly need to state that I am not paying etc ... I seen someone wrote a template with questions to ask to them and they have to answer etc. 

 

This is all im asking for, 

[honeybee13]

Please don't use email, it gives them a way to harrass you for free. I don't remember a template that you describe, maybe someone will.

 

Can you post up what they've sent you please, having redacted personal information, reg numbers, etc.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

please read post 18 from ericsbrother CAREFULLY.

you do NOT respond.

 

dx

 

[FTMDave]

You need to take some time to understand the legal situation, otherwise you'll panic and end up paying money you don't owe.

 

If you saw someone you recognised vandalising street signs or lamp posts in the street where you live, you wouldn't send the person a demand for £100 to be paid to you, and if you did I'm sure they'd just laugh at the letter.  You have no power to fine anyone.  The correct procedure would be to call the coppers who would have the person prosecuted in the Magistrates Court with the fine going to the state.

 

Airports are covered by bye-laws.  If you did something naughty with your car (you didn't of course, just being hypothetical) the correct procedure is prosecution in the Magistrates Court.  No private company can "fine" you.  You owe them £0.00 so there's nothing to consider re discount periods, you can't discount zero.

 

VCS are sending demands for money they know full well isn't owed, hoping motorists who don't know the law will wee themselves & cough up.  That's one of the reasons we say not to communicate with them, they're crooks.  At best appealing is pointless, at worst you'll give away legal protections.  If you found someone burgling your home, you wouldn't go through their appeal or mediation process.

 

You mention bailiffs.  Bailiffs can only be involved

   - if you are sent a formal Letter before Action

   - then you are taken to court

   - then you lose the court claim

   - then you still refuse to pay.

You're not even at the first stage yet! 

 

Try reading threads by motorists in a similar position to you on the forum.  You'll see that VCS will send lots of scary letters, finally they will threaten court with a Letter before Action, AT THIS POINT you tell them you know the law and to Foxtrot Oscar ... whereupon they go back under their stone.  Here is one example.  This motorist hasn't been taken to court.

 

 

They don't take people to court - because they know their claims are invalid and they would lose.  Even if they did take you to court, which they won't, you would smash them.

 

Ignore their hot air and have a good evening!

Edited October 7, 2019 by FTMDave

[brassnecked]

As FTMDAve and ericsbrother indicate, they won't risk their business model being tested in court, for every won't pay 10 wet themselves and pay up when they get the NTK that adds Unicorn Food tax that cannot be  lawfully added to their invoice.  Sadly it is a long game, and you must be prepared to tough it out, or roll over and cough up for something you never owed in the first place.

[dx100uk]

no good you keep saying you are new to all this as an excuse for NOT understanding what people are advising you to do and not to do.

 

sit on your hands.