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Le5678

Harveys "Sold as Seen" i have no rights? HELP PLEASE

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Hi All,

Can anyone advise where do I stand with the below (it’s a long one so grab a brew!), but in brief my issue is, I purchased a shop floor suite (3 & 2 seater sofas) I was told verbally multiple times that on my purchase there was warranty and guarantee - when it turns out there wasn’t, I was not told of damages, I was not told it was sold as seen, I was not given or advised of any terms and conditions. I want to return the sofa suite to Harveys for a full refund as the only reason I purchased was the reassurance of a warranty and a guarantee. When I complained to customer services they have said they can’t so anything it’s up to the store and that by buying sold as seen I waived my statutory rights and have agreed to the terms and conditions and contractual agreements when I paid (I told them I have not read or signed anything or advised of any agreements or waivers etc.). I would NEVER have purchased this if I was told there’s no guarantee with it not to mention that its faulty. I don’t know how to proceed to get my money back and return the suite. I feel lied to, mis-sold and completely defrauded, and I need help on where I can go from here, and also curious if business have any accountability for sold as seen (especially if mis-sold). Do I have any rights?

 

So here’s what happened in full so you have all the information…

I went in my local Harveys store to look at the Westchester suite before deciding to buy, I asked if it was available for Christmas delivery as the website said it was but also said 12 weeks which would be after Christmas, I was told by the salesman that he had another suite and showed me the Kinman, he said I could purchase that very same suite and not worry about waiting. I sat on both the 2 and 3 seater suite and they seemed fine all was working, he took the price sign away so I didn't get to see it before coming back with a buy it price of £941, he said it was the showroom piece so ex demo which is why it's cheaper price, I asked and he confirmed it comes with the guarantee and warranty, I also asked how much the additional insurance was and told between £200 and £300. I said I needed to speak to my partner and see if I could get a van, he said he can't hold it and when it's gone it's gone (this made me feel a bit anxious and pressured but I understand he was making me aware) I sorted the money and confirmed with my partner and agreed to buy it was a lot of money but it has a guarantee and warranty so I felt safe in buying it.

 

I called back the next day at lunch time and said yes I'll buy it so that way it didn't get sold to someone else, I confirmed again it has warranty and guarantee, I again asked for a price for the insurance which was over £300 so I didn't buy that (though going from what I have found out after purchasing about the guarantee I don't think they would provide cover on a used sofa suite!), I said I'd pick up Saturday morning.

 

I went to collect Saturday morning, the sofa was split into 4 ready, though there was dirt from the floor on the fronts, this brushed off apart from a dirt stain/mark on the front of the 2-seater on the footrest which I was not told was there before buying, I got the sofas home and put them together the 3-seater is a bit wobbly but nothing too drastic but the 2-seater was so wobbly it looked unsafe and not the same as when I saw it in store. I also at this point realised me receipt and guarantee information hadn't been included with the sofa, I phoned the store back and spoke to one person to then had to repeat myself to the original salesman who said he'd call me back in 15 minutes.

 

He called back and asked a few questions about flush fitting and adjustable feet, he said he'd call me back in an hour. He called back and said I needed to bring the 2-seater back so an engineer can look at it the following day, I asked if that cost of getting a van to return it would be covered and he said they would give £35 cash back and return the sofa to me on Sunday.  On returning to the store I asked if I could speak to a manager and the man said that was him and he was dealing with another customer and would be right with me, I waited and he came over only once the original salesman came over, I tried to engage with the assistant manager but he was quiet, wouldn't engage with me and seemed rather stand-offish I said I wasn't happy, I also asked why the engineer couldn't come to me and was told its sold as seen which is he first I'd heard of that. I showed the video and photos of it and they agreed it wasn't right, the salesman said it looks like a bolt is the wrong size, I asked how a bolt would have changed during move from floor to round back and I was just told repeatedly they just loaded it onto the trolley and moved it to the back, this was the day AFTER I had paid.

 

I realised when reading through the guarantee information I had been given with my (unsigned receipt and paperwork) that my suite wasn't covered by the guarantee or warranty! He called me back on the Sunday and informed me the bottom section had been replaced as it was broken but he wouldn’t be able to get the sofa back to me until Tuesday (which also means me taking time off work!), when I said about the guarantee and warranty being exempt from my purchase he sounded surprised, I said I would speak to customer services Monday and I would likely be returning the suite due to the lack of guarantee and warranty and that I was unhappy and felt misled, he said he understood and said he'd await my call back.

 

And this is where I stand at the moment, I called the store and left a message for a manager to call me back as the salesman is off today, and I was told it was the assistant manager (oh joy!), so I'm awaiting a call back, I’ve had no help from customer services who said the decision is entirely up to the store, they are under no obligation and they are unable to help me further and also refuse to escalate the complaint.

 

 

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You posted a very long narrative but you haven't even told us the date that you purchased the suite and when it was delivered


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Posted (edited)

Paid for thursday 3rd oct, collected saturday 5th oct

Edited by Le5678

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Thank you.

First of all you've been here since 2008 and you have been having telephone conversations and because you are a long-standing Cagger, I'm sure that you have implemented our customer services guide advice and recorded the calls so that you have got it on record that they told you that you don't have any statutory rights. This is excellent. That evidence will be very useful.

Secondly, it's not possible to waive statutory rights and so therefore under the Consumer Rights Act you have 30 days in which to reject the goods out of hand if they are defective.

This rejection which is called the "short-term right to reject" has to be asserted in writing and so therefore I think you should write them an email and a letter immediately.

Given the reference numbers of the purchase, tell them what the defect is and tell them that you are now asserting your short-term right to reject and you are rejecting the goods and you want a complete refund. Tell them that they are required to make arrangements to collect the suite or else to reimburse you the cost of returning it to them.

Do this straightaway.

I suggest that you get rid of the suite back to the shop as quickly as possible. You don't want it hanging around your neck but make sure they have got the rejection letter and I suggest that you email it to them, send them a letter and also send them a copy by registered or recorded delivery. You could even hand a copy to the manager and telling what it is.


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I take it from your lack of response so far that you haven't recorded the call. Big fail.

I suggest that you now read our customer services guide and implement the advice there and have another telephone conversation along the same lines as your previous one and see if you can get them once again to tell you that you don't have any statutory rights.

The only statutory rights you lose are in respect of defects which are specifically pointed out to you. If you could get a recording of them saying that then it would be extremely useful if push comes to shove.

Other than that have you started doing anything about the rejection letter?


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Hi sorry I was starting to write the letter as suggested and I'm struggling on a bit of it, only one of the sofa's is faulty and they have repaired it but I have not received it back (and have declined to do so), would they force me to retain the non faulty 3 seater and only refund the 2 seater? this is what I dread!

 

Also no I didn't record it I was on hold for 2 hours waiting to get through to someone and I don't have that much storage available on my phone. I can call them back but it would be in the evening. I was called by the assistant manager who said the actual manager would have to call me back in an hour and he asd quick as he could got off the phone.

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I hadn't realised that they had repaired the defective sofa. I'm not sure whether that would undermine your right to reject the item. It's a shame you didn't come here first.

You bought all the items together on a single contract and presumably the sofas are a set and so they wouldn't be entitled to insist on you holding onto one of them only. If you reject one for a defect then you reject them all.

I now think it's essential that you get a recording of them saying that you have given up your statutory rights. If you can get that then I think you are in a very powerful position.

I appreciate that you might have been on hold for a long time but it wouldn't have taken much to activate the recorder when somebody came on to talk to you. Also, I'm not sure that two hours of audio takes up that much space. Do you actually have a recorder installed on your phone?

Why is it that you don't want the suite back at all now?

 


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Also, I notice that you say that the three seater sofa is wobbly – though not too drastic. Is it wobbly at all? Why is it wobbly? This might be sufficiently a defect for you to be able to invoke your right to reject in respect of this fault


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Yep purchased together as a single contract, I also didn't sign the agreement on the receipt. I will give them a call after work and get them to say it again.

 

Can you recommend one? (android), I have a standard voice recorder.

 

it's a bit wobbly but when I mentioned this to the salesman when I sent the 2 seater back he said "a bit of wobble is to be expected due to the design), it wobbles if you rock it but not as bad as the 2 seater (which I have video of that wobble)

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Please read our customer services guide and you will find a link to an app which is probably what you need to.

I don't think any sofa should wobble. Have you ever seen anybody else is sofa wobbling? What is it about the design which makes it wobble?


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When you install the call recorder, make sure that you test it and practice with it so that there are no mistakes.

 

Don't send the rejection letter yet. You have plenty of time.


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that's the ting it shouldn't wobble at all, I had a recliner before (different manufacturer) and it didn't wobble.

 

I will practice then give them a call tonight.

 

How's this? (formatting on paste not the best!) I have included my reference at the top and the date etc.

 

 

Quote

 

To the Store Manager,

 

I am asserting my short term right to reject these goods for a complete refund under the Consumer Rights Act. This is in relation to my purchase of the below 2 listed showroom model sofa’s which are part of a matching set and on the same contract.

 

  • 3-seater Sofa Kinman manual recliner (wobble)

  • 2-seater sofa Kinman manual recliner (wobble due to faulty mechanism)

     

    The 2-seater was returned to store at my expense on Saturday 05/10/2019 the same day as ownership was taken due to a fault where by the sofa was wobbly and unsafe. This 2-seater sofa is still within your stores possession.

     

    Regards

 

  •  

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I suggest that you add somewhere: –

Quote

 

As you know, you have already accepted that the two seater sofa is defective. However, the three seater sofa is also defective in that it wobbles. I pointed this out to your salesman on X X X date and was simply told that this was part of the design.
This is not correct I have now taken advice and it is very clear that any item of furniture which wobbles only does so because it is defective.

 

In respect of the two seater sofa which has already been returned to your store and which is presently with you, you insisted that I cover the cost of returning this item to you even though it had only just been bought. I agree to this simply as a matter of convenience. However I am outraged that you are attempting to make me liable for any of the expenses associated with any defect in the items that you have sold me and so in addition to my full refund, I shall want reimbursement of the cost of getting it to you and any associated expenses.

 


I have to say I'm amazed that you have gone along with their line so easily. I suppose it won't make you feel better but I am also surprised that you didn't come to us first and asked for our advice as soon as you became aware of the defect and I'm also quite amazed that you don't record your calls. I've already said that you've been here sometime and you haven't even installed the recording app.

No wonder these people are able to take advantage of you. I know none of this will make you feel more comfortable – but it needs to be said, at the very least for the benefit of others who might read this thread.

As I have already said, don't send any letters yet. See what you can record in a conversation with them. I'm sure they will make a fuss about the fact that you have agreed to the repair of the two seater sofa. Did you agree to this in writing? However it will certainly be helpful that they forced you to pay for the transportation yourself – but a recording of them saying that you don't have any statutory rights will be perfect.

Please check the three seater sofa carefully for any other defects including marks on the fabric or other faults.


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I understand and yes I've been foolish not recording the calls, I have been arguing with them since Saturday less than an hour after I took ownership as I'm refuse to accept their lies.

 

As for being a long time member I haven't been on this site in years as I've not had any need to thankfully.

 

I won't send the letter until I have that recording, though what I can do with this I'm not sure.

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I also want to thank you for your help with all this, it is greatly appreciated.

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Well thanks for the thanks – but let's wait until you get a result.

When you get the recording, as recommended in our customer services guide, make sure it's backed up securely so that you don't accidentally erase it, or lose your phone, or have your phone stolen or any of the other things which can happen and make you lose you evidence.

If you can get the recording then if they cause you any trouble then we will recommend that you threaten them with a small claim in the County Court and that you tell them that they have already tried to deny you your consumer rights and that you will bring this to the attention of the court. If they don't sort things out within the 14 days then on day 15 you will start the legal action and you will then eventually supply the recording and transcript of it to the court.

Frankly I'm quite sure that once their lawyers realise that you have a recording of your consumer rights being denied, they will put their hands up.


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I called them as got sick of waiting for a promised call back. The manager was too busy to call me back or speak to me but the receptionist relayed the information, (and I recorded the call too :) )  they have agreed to a refund as long as I bring the 3-seater back and that has to be at my own expense. Then they will send a letter to head office to "unlock" the order and then process the refund, this can take 3+ days for the unlocking then however long it takes the bank to process the refund (I best dig out some cushions to sit on until I can find a sofa from a different supplier, this has put me right off them!).

 

 

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Well that's a result. It's a damn cheek making you responsible for the cost of returning it – and we can have a look at that afterwards. The most important thing is that you've got this recorded so even if later on they try to deny it, you got them.

I suggest you make immediate arrangements to return the sofa. Photograph it because you don't want any further question marks over the condition in which it was delivered to them. How are you going to get it to them? How much has the return of the two seater and also the three seater cost you?

 

Make sure you backup the recording. Email it to someone or email it to yourself so you can receive on your computer and keep it there.


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By the way, on what basis did they agreed to take it back? Did you explain that it was faulty?


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I have contacted a friend who has a van so I only cover the fuel so far a tenner for sending the 2 back, probably same again for the 3 but it's a small price for a valuable lesson! I will ensure photos and videos are taken before its returned.

 

They never mentioned the return being conditional based on anything other than having the goods returned.... should I video or voice record the return and any conversations had?

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Yes but you haven't addressed the question which was what did you say to them? Did you tell them that you are returning it because it was faulty or simply that you had changed your mind?


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I suggest that it's wrapped to avoid any accidents in the van. Take photos when it's loaded into the van and take photos when it is returned to the shop. Make sure you get the name of the person who receives it back. 

Voice recording everything is always helpful.

I'd be careful about videoing because that will put them on the defensive. You don't want that.


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in the previous conversation with them I said because it was faulty and I was not happy about it being mis-sold due to the lack of guarantee and warranty and they didn't tell me of any damage. As the manager didn't speak to me the receptionist just relayed the information. Should I also ask the person receiving the sofa to confirm on paper that they received it back in original condition?

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So you didn't get a recording of you telling them that you wanted to return it because it was faulty?


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nope because that took place before I started this thread and I was awaiting them to call me back and speak to me

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