Repeat Healthcare Assessment While Waiting For ESA Tribunal

[JamesNeedsALittleSupport]

Hi Guys,

 

I am new to this site so please bear with me if I am making any mistakes posting this here.

If I have it wrong I would appreciate someone pointing this post in the right direction.

 

I have been on long term sick now for two years.

Last year I went through the whole ESA health assessment, mandatory reconsideration and just before my ESA tribunal the DWP reversed their decision and put me in the support group with a backdated payment.

This was on the condition I was reassessed in 12 months.

 

I was reassessed in February this year and despite being on a waiting list for the second course of my treatment the DWP decided to put me back on to JSA, or rather the equivalent on Universal Credit which they switched me to, and I have now had to go through the whole process again.

 

I have been waiting for my ESA tribunal date to come through for almost 6 months and am still waiting.

I have just received a letter asking me to complete another health questionnaire and attend another health assessment.

Is this an admin error?

 

I went through all this process in February and March of this year, hence the reason I am waiting for my ESA appeal at the tribunal.

My work coach doesn't really know or understand, he just told me to do what they say otherwise my UC payments will stop.

 

What is the point in going through the health assessment process all over again only to be told the same thing and then what?

I submit another appeal to an ESA Tribunal?

 

I just don't understand any of this.

If anyone has any advice on this matter I would be so grateful.

 

All of this extra concern is not helping me at all and no one at the Jobcentre seems to know what to do.

 

James

 

[dx100uk]

I would suspect the assessment is for UC , nothing to do with anything previous.

 

pop up on your online UC Journal page and ask the direct question there.

[JamesNeedsALittleSupport]

Hello dx100uk,

 

Thank you for your response.

Yes that's exactly what I did

 

the reply came back that in exchange for Universal Credit I must comply with the mandatory process, which is the same process as I went through in February and March of this year.

So I'm really baffled.

 

Do I have to repeat the whole process again only to be told I will have to appeal to a tribunal which is what I am doing at the moment?

 

James

[brassnecked]

ESA and UC have their own Work Capabiklty Assessment regime so you will get called in for both.  Perhaps Unclebulgaria could clarify, as I think therfe was talk of amalgamating the assessments so they are dual purpose. Its the DWP we are talking about here so nothing surprises me where they are concerned.

[dx100uk]

how do you know you'll fail a new one?

 

my next door neighbour had the same sort of thing in march. new ESA failed, had MR, tribunal was pending

 

told had to apply for UC, got it, but ofcourse was only a low figure [£307PCM]

asked where the rest was!!

was told had to fill out a assessment form and latterly attend an assessment.

his doc signed the form [cancer involved but clear for almost 4yrs, cant exist away from a toilet, bowel issues etc]

 

just last week he had an alert on UC page

now getting £708

and heard from ESA getting it all backdated to march, tribunal cancelled ..he won

[JamesNeedsALittleSupport]

Hi,

 

Thanks very much for those responses, it does shed more light on the matter.

 

I suppose I will have to complete the questionnaire again but I will state this is a repeat questionnaire,

 

at least it also gives me a chance to update them on my treatment which started last week.

 

I have 12 weeks of treatment to go.

It does seem bizarre that I go through all this again probably only to be told I will have to appeal in an ESA tribunal but who knows perhaps dx100uk I might get some positive news instead.

 

What happens if I get my tribunal date through in the meantime though?

 

Thank you for your help guys, it's very much appreciated.

 

James

[dx100uk]

you need to remember UC and ESA are to differing depts

follow it through.

[unclebulgaria67]

So you were in the ESA support group and in February 2019,  you were found fit for work following an assessment. You then transferred to Universal Credit and have submitted Doctors fit notes.  You are currently awaiting Courts tribunal where you hope the ESA decision is revised.

 

At the moment, your ESA claim or any benefit award based on not being able to work is not relevant. It is for the Court tribunal to decide whether you qualify for any of the descriptors which indicate that conditions mean you have limited capability for work.

 

You have to follow the UC health journey, supplying fit notes, completing/returning the UC50 questionnaire and attending the assessment.. Of course you can point out that the matter is currently subject to Court tribunal appeal of the ESA assessment outcome in February 2019. 

 

It might be the case that the Courts tribunal decision is made before the UC assessment outcome and you simply need to provide UC/Job Centre with a copy of the Courts decision if it is in your favour. UC will then apply the decision to your UC claim. So if you met the criteria for support, you would receive limited capability for work and work related activity backdated to start of UC claim, provided less than a month gap between ESA claim closing and UC claim starting. If just limited capability for work and not the work related activity (WRAG under ESA), you would only receive extra payment, if you had the support group on ESA before April 2017.

 

You may find that a UC Decision Maker will not add any decision, until the Court tribunals outcome is known. Matters may then become complicated, if the Court tribunal decision then clashes with the latest assessment under UC. You could be found fit for work by Court tribunal, but your latest assessment finds that you have limited capability for work. Or it could be the other way around.

 

ESA and UC have the same assessment process, which should not be running at the same time. But as you have yet to be given a hearing at Court tribunal, of course UC has to allow you to be assessed, as you are now over 6 months on from the ESA decision.

[JamesNeedsALittleSupport]

Hello Unclebulgaria,

 

Thank you so much for that detailed reply. There is a lot to digest and I will re-read it but I think I understand everything you are saying.

 

I will of course follow through the UC Health Assessment process otherwise my UC payments will stop anyway and then I really would be stuck.

 

I do hope some common sense can be injected into this whole situation at some stage. I will attach all my medical reports which have recently been updated to reflect my current treatment.

 

What a depressing saga but that's the system that's been set up.

Thank you again, much appreciated.

 

James

[JamesNeedsALittleSupport]

Hi guys,

 

I have received a letter from Universal Credit informing me that I have limited capability for work and that I no longer need to attend the Jobcentre or look for work. I also do not need to keep sending the Jobcentre fit notes from now on. I am obviously relieved by this, as my treatment continues and I am working to regain my health. I am informed that I will get some kind of backdated payment from 3 months after I provided evidence to UC about my condition.

 

In March this year I was found fit for work and taken out of the support group for ESA and forced onto UC despite being on a waiting list for the second course of my treatment, and my condition being more or less the same as when the DWP found me unfit for work the previous year. So I assume my backdated payment will start from July, is that right? 

 

A couple of weeks ago I had another letter from the DWP informing me about my tribunal date for my ESA appeal. If I have this right the only purpose of the ESA appeal now is to determine whether I am entitled to a backdated payment for the 3 months from March to June, is that correct? If that's the situation I might let them determine my case based on the papers and save myself the ordeal of going to the tribunal. Although I know that's risky because I'm told I have more of a chance of winning it if I attend. 

 

When I was pushed onto UC in March I had to take a DWP loan out of £875 because UC took 5 weeks to process the UC claim. I have so far paid back around £350 of the loan. It says in the UC letter that if I owe them money they might deduct this from the backdated payment. Do you know if this includes the remaining loan I took out? Or will they let me keep paying that back monthly as was the original agreement?

 

I'm sorry for all the questions but while I feel that I am now getting somewhere I am still very confused by what happens next.

 

Any help and assistance would be really appreciated.

 

James

[JamesNeedsALittleSupport]

Hi,

 

Are people not responding on here anymore? Is the forum closing down?

 

James

 

 

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

Things are always quieter here at weekends, especially in the lead up to Christmas so please bear with us. Not many people here will know the answers to your questions but I would expect Uncle Bulgaria will be around from tomorrow.

 

HB

[unclebulgaria67]

Suggest that you call the UC helpline 0800 328 5644 to ask about the backdated payment.

 

What tends to happen is UC Decision Makers add the decisions to the claims and it then takes ages before claimants hear any more.

 

Any backdated payment for the limited capability for work and work related activity may be offered to DWP Debt Management. If you call UC, they may be able to tell you, whether this is going to happen. 

 

If you win the ESA tribunal, then yes any further backdating will be worked out, but you will need to provide a copy of the tribunal letter to UC, so they can arrange this. DWP do not always appear to get the tribunal letters, which is why is why I suggest passing to UC via the local Job Centre. 

 

On the issue of the tribunal, perhaps it may be worth providing tribunal details of the recent UC assessment, so they can see how the ESA assessment which found you fit for work, was an error.

[JamesNeedsALittleSupport]

Hi Unclebulgaria,

 

Thanks for you response, much appreciated. Can I just clarify am I now attending the ESA Tribunal simply to recover the 3 months backdated ESA payment which UC will not cover, as they only backdate to 3 months after I provided evidence of my condition? 

 

James

[JamesNeedsALittleSupport]

Hi,

 

Can I also ask are they able to deduct any backdated payment from a housing benefit overpayment from a council, despite this alleged overpayment being the subject of a separate tribunal yet to be heard?

 

The housing benefit overpayment occurred when I moved to a different location to get access to my treatment quicker.

The new council told me I needed to apply for UC but the DWP wrote to me at my new address informing me that they had reviewed my claim and were going to keep me on ESA.

 

I was literally going round in circles for months because no one wanted to pay me housing benefit which I was entitled to.

All the time my old local authority were paying my housing benefit which they would like recovered.

 

From my perspective there has been no overpayment the problem has arisen because it was the wrong source who was paying the housing benefit.

 

James

[dx100uk]

HB and dwp payments are 2 sep things

overpayment of one cannot be recovered from the other AFAIK.

 

dx

 

[JamesNeedsALittleSupport]

Hi dx100uk,

 

Thanks for explaining that, much appreciated.

 

James

[unclebulgaria67]

In theory the ESA tribunal, if it agrees you should be in support (LCWRA), will enable you to obtain the missed award amounts, which would be the 3 months. 

[JamesNeedsALittleSupport]

Hi,

 

I have been informed that I will get a £1900 backdated payment for UC and that it is being processed. However, I will not see a penny of it. They intend to give it all to Bristol City Council for a housing benefit overpayment of £2900, despite that alleged overpayment being the subject of a tribunal as I don't owe them the money. The housing benefit overpayment occurred when I moved to a different location to get access to my treatment quicker, this was when I was on ESA. The new council told me I needed to apply for UC but the DWP wrote to me at my new address informing me that they had reviewed my claim and were going to keep me on ESA and that I need to apply for housing benefit from the council. I went round in circles for months, during this time my old council paid my housing benefit and then raised an invoice for the so called overpayment.

 

I can not tell you how sick I feel. I have accrued so much debt living off credit cards during this period to pay for food and bills. I had really hoped I could use the backdated payment to pay off some of the debt and get a little more financially buoyant. What a totally perverse system. They wont use any of the £1900 backdated payment to pay the £550 remaining for the advance I had while waiting for my UC claim to be processed after pushing me off ESA. So those payments for the loan will still be deducted from me monthly. It just couldn't be any worse. I don't have the words.

 

I had intended to make a donation to this site because you guys have been very helpful and I am very grateful to you all. I'm sorry that won't be happening now. 

 

When did Britain become such a terrible country?

 

James

 

 

 

 

[unclebulgaria67]

I would suggest that you call UC and request mandatory reconsideration (MR) of the decision to pay the LCWRA arrears to DWP debt management towards this disputed Housing Benefit debt.

 

They cannot refuse the MR request.

 

Reasons for MR.

 

1) Housing Benefit debt is disputed and subject to Court Tribunal process. 

 

2) The DWP decision makers letter to award the LCWRA does not mention any decision to pay arrears towards debts. UC are therefore making a decision, without informing of any legal rights they might have to act in this way. 

 

When you make the MR request, ask to submit further evidence within the 30 days allowed. Then send copies of any dispute about the debt.

 

You could also contact the Council to see if they are happy for health related award money from DWP being paid to them. Send a complaint to Council that you are not happy with this.

 

 

[JamesNeedsALittleSupport]

Hi Unclebulgaria,

 

I appreciate your response.

 

At the moment Debt Management are waiting to received the payment. I'm assuming once they have decided to send my backdated payment of £1900 on to the council I will get a letter on my UC journal informing me, is that the time I then request the mandatory reconsideration?

 

In relation to your second reason for the MR I'm not sure I can rely on that as the UC letter which finds me not fit for work and explains I will get a backdated payment expressly states that if I owe the DWP money they may take that from the backdated payment. I will certainly consider talking directly with the council to see if they are happy not to take my backdated payment although I think it's highly unlikely they would allow releasing the payment to me.

 

On a separate note

I have contacted the tribunal service to check on the status of the case involving the alleged overpayment for housing benefit which I submitted almost 5 months ago. As I didn't place much reliance on winning it and my focus was on ensuring I attended the ESA tribunal I asked that the case be dealt with by not attending the hearing, and I have sent in very little evidence.

 

I had no idea how important that tribunal case would turn out to be.

I have also moved address again, as my landlady served a section 21 on me because she wanted her property back, and that case was dealt with entirely by postal mail. I was very worried that the case had all been dealt with and they hadn't updated my address so I hadn't been informed of what was going on.

 

I was very relieved to find out today the case is still pending and the adviser I spoke to is referring the case back to a judge as DWP have not responded to the case in 17 weeks. That means if the MR gets me nowhere I can still have a chance of fighting the case at the tribunal.

 

I have informed them of my wish to attend and the adviser has now amended this to reflect that.

I now have to wait for the DWP's bundle and then I can send in my evidence.

I'm just so relieved that I will get a chance to claim this money back. 

 

Thanks again for your help, the guidance you have offered has been profoundly helpful so thank you for that.

 

James

[dx100uk]

looking better then..well done

[JamesNeedsALittleSupport]

Hi Unclebulgaria,

 

I wanted to start by saying that I won my ESA appeal and that the panel have recommended reassessment in 24 months time. So that's another £1000 backdated payment, in total I have been awarded a £2,500 backdated payment but of course I won't see a penny of it as the DWP are handing it all over to Bristol City Council. As you know the Council are claiming an overpayment for housing benefit but it's not at all, the issue arose when I moved address and therefore the Council were paying my housing benefit when UC should have. 

 

The reason I am writing to ask if you or anyone can help is that I have now received the bundle from UC and so I have to reply with my evidence. This is a different situation and I do not have any guidance whatsoever, as there seems to be very few examples of people in my situation having to go to a tribunal for a DWP error. There are tons of cases online and forums which helped steer me through the ESA Tribunal because so many people have experienced it so I had some confidence with my ESA appeal. However, with this UC appeal I really don't know what to expect or how to prepare. 

 

The main defence from UC is that they only backdate payments for a month and as I asked for my backdated payment 6 weeks after registering my UC claim they said I have been paid the month they could backdate anyway, this was when I first applied for Universal Credit. So they say nothing is owed. However, my backdate request goes back 6 months to cover the period DWP were telling me to claim housing benefit from Bristol City Council and Bristol Council were telling me to claim UC. Almost bizarrely in the bundle UC says they can not understand why ESA had written to me at my new address stating after reassessment of the claim that I would be staying on ESA when they should have told me to apply for UC. They then state even if DWP have made mistakes it is not a legitimate reason within the regulations to backdate any housing benefits. It's quite surreal reading I can tell you. They are actually saying the DWP have made a mistake which put me into this grey area within the system but that a DWP mistake is still not a valid reason! It's bizarre.

 

I wanted to check with you or anyone else if they can help before I started writing my response to their bundle if anyone has any advice which I would be very grateful for. At this stage I am quite confused by what I should say to all of this and whether there are some specific things I should put in my letter. I will of course include the ESA tribunal result letter, the UC letter which found me unfit for work, the ESA letter informing me I will stay on ESA and all my medical evidence.

 

I really don't know where to begin with this one and I could really use some help if anyone has any to give.

 

James

Edited January 1, 2020 by JamesNeedsALittleSupport

[unclebulgaria67]

For the 6 month period, which you are trying to get backdated payment for, who provided the Housing ?  Was it Bristol City Council as landlord ?  Or was it a Housing Association ? Private landlord ?

 

what type of Housing ?   Standard tenancy agreement for House/flat ? Or was it supported, temporary or sheltered Housing ?

 

This is important, as UC does not include some Housing and it would be Council Housing benefit who would pay for it.

 

Have you raised a complaint via your MP yet, to ask them to raise with Bristol City Council ?   You are more likely to get Housing benefit backdated, than for UC to be backdated.  UC legislation restricts backdating, even if DWP error,

[JamesNeedsALittleSupport]

Hi Unclebulgaria,

 

Thanks for your response. 

 

One slight correction in that I moved from London to Bristol and so it was the London borough council in the area I was living in that continued to pay my housing benefit while the back and forth continued between Bristol City Council and the DWP about whether I should be claiming UC or housing benefit. So my backdated payment will be paid to the London council not Bristol City Council.

 

In answer to your questions for the 6 month period I am claiming for it was the London council that paid my housing benefits when it should have been UC. I was claiming housing benefit as a tenant in a privately rented flat under an assured freehold tenancy agreement with a private landlord. It was a one bedroom flat. I have not yet raised a complaint with my MP yet but will certainly consider that.

 

James