Premier ANRP PCN - paid didnt input reg no - Bovisand Park in Devon

[Chico_Talent]

Hi all,

 

Ive recently received a PCN from PPS for Bovisand Park in Devon.  I appealed to PPS as I had paid and had the P&D Ticket but was declined due to not providing a VRN on their P&D machine.

 

I followed this up with an appeal to IAS (before I read these forums).  Mainly stating that their P&D machine never asked for a VRN and provided me with a ticket which I have shown to PPS.  Also pointing out that there T&C state "when paying by phone or when required to enter correct and accurate details" and that the P&D machine never ask for a VRN so that didn't apply to me.  I will post all the details if required.

 

My wife and I have talked about it and both came to the same conclusion that we want to fight this in court as we feel were being scammed, despite the hassle it will cause over £100.

 

So after reading all your helpful post, I next expect debt collection agency's to get in touch and up to 6 years waiting to see if they want to take me to court.

 

Is there any way I can email them to say I will not be paying unless you take me to court and to stop the harassment from the debt agencies.

 

Thank you all in advance!!!

[BankFodder]

If you can get back to the machine, I suggest that you pay a small parking fee and video what happens so that you can show that it doesn't ask for a VRN

[Chico_Talent]

I have since been back to do that and the machine does ask for registration details, but if you put in 2 letters it will let you proceed to the next step.

 

The only thing I can think that happened is that someone had put in 2 letter of their VRN before me, couldn't remember the whole thing and left, and I arrived before the machine had time to reset and I just put the time in and paid for my ticket and know were in this mess.

[Homer67]

First thing is to stop worrying. This is not a serious issue and is easily dealt with.

 

Do you stil have the ticket showing you paid?

 

If you do then you have evidence you paid and that's the end of it, if they are stupid enough to take it to court you can show they suffered no loss and chose to ignore your appeal where you declared to them you paid.

[Chico_Talent]

Yes I still have the P&D ticket.

 

They are arguing that because I never provided a VRN that my ticket is invalid.

 

I agree with you,  I paid, and have a ticket which is why I want to go to court.  If the judge states that I broke there T&C and owe them £100, then ill pay it.  I just feel like im being scammed.  I mean that they haven't suffered any loss like you said and they are being unreasonable as I can proved I've paid so where's the issue!

[Homer67]

Their terms and conditions can only apply if you had time to study them in detail and agree to them. That's hardly likely if you are queuing to pay and have people waitng behind you, which I'm sure was the case.

 

Oh and Debt Collectors are completely powerless so you ignore (but keep on file) all of their pointless demands.

 

The only time you need to react is to a letter before claim which cannot come form a Debt Collector but from the PPC's tame legal team.

[Chico_Talent]

This picture PPS used in the IAS appeal will hurt my defence. 

 

I read there T&C and then just followed the LCD instructions and didn't notice the confusing hieroglyphic above the display. 

 

But the machine never asked for a VRN, and printed a ticket for display!!  Surely their ANPR highlights tickets that are bought that don't relate to Reg Numbers of  cars using the site?

 

 

[Ethel Street]

47 minutes ago, Chico_Talent said:

 

 

They are arguing that because I never provided a VRN that my ticket is invalid.

 

Two thoughts:

 

The P&D ticket presumably shows the payment made? Therefore it acts a receipt confirming they have received the money. If they now argue the ticket is invalid they should, by their logic, return the money to you. Have they returned, or offered to return, the money paid? If not then their actions undermine their argument.

 

Are you saying the machine gave you a ticket with no registration number shown on it? If so that in itself is evidence against their claim because it shows the machine does issue tickets without requiring a reg number to be entered. 

[dx100uk]

There are numerous reg no issue threads here

just ignore them now until or unless you get a letter of clàim from one of the many fake/tame paperwork only solicitors

 

shame you appealed..next time ask here 1st!!! 

[Chico_Talent]

The ticket shows PP where the registration number should be. I only found out recently that’s where the Reg number should be. I thought it was short for PPS the company running the machine. 

 

 

 

Safari_-_2_Oct_2019_at_14:57.pdf

[lookinforinfo]

As you have paid they have lost nothing. And to demand £100 or whatever they charge is definitely a penalty. 

[Chico_Talent]

I agree with everything you all say. But what are my legal arguments. 

 

The facts are 

 

I paid for parking and displayed my ticket.

 

I did not over stay for the time paid for.

 

I made all reasonably endeavors to comply with PPS T&C's.

 

Poor use of language on signs by using the word "WHEN" led ambiguous meaning and not outlining the mandatory need for Reg No. even when using a P&D machine.

 

I followed the LCD instructions on and at no time was I asked to provide a Reg No.

 

Would that be enough or do I have to quote case law etc?? 

 

Sorry if this all seems nobby to you hut ive never gone to court before 

[dx100uk]

you paid end of.

 

not seen one of these mis-typed or no reg no. PCN's goto court.

[Chico_Talent]

So do you think I should send PPS an email saying something along the lines of that I’m disappointed at IAS rejection although not surprise after reasearching the organization. I disagree with the anonymous adjudication, as such, will be presenting my case in front of a Judge should PPS decided to take that route. 

[dx100uk]

no!!

 

and NEVER EVER use email.

as post 9

sit on your hands

 

get reading like threads

use our search 

you'll soon get the idea.

[Chico_Talent]

Okay thanks,  just a waiting game for the barrage of letters from debt collection agency and solicitors to start

[honeybee13]

You've got it.

 

Don't ignore a Letter Before Claim if you get one and if you're worried by what they're saying, because they do try to intimidate people, come back here and we'll do you a pep talk.

 

HB

[brassnecked]

At that point an ericsbrother style acidic letter letting them know that you and they know they have no case as no loss, and a minor defect on the recipit for parking, the ticket is de-minimis a trifle, so no case to answer, is usually enough to send they away with tail between legs.

[Chico_Talent]

Thank you all.  The response and reassurance is great!!!

 

I had to look up what de-minimis a trifle meant!! Haha.

 

Also, I've been reading someone else court case against PPS.  The machine didn't register her pressing the first digit of her Reg No....So similar to mine.  But in her defence, she attack PPS for not having planning permission for the use of APNR camera or advertisement permission for the use of signs.  Do you think this is an argument I should alo look into for my claim.

 

I'm just trying to start to compile a defence now, so it done and ready for when and if they want to take me to court!

[dx100uk]

Dont run before you can walk

[Homer67]

You haven't had a claim yet, just a silly invoice and that will be followed by several begging letter from their tame DCA (the bloke sat at the next desk along), if you have time on your hands you can ask the local authority to provide the planning permission granted for signage on that site but you woldn't be using that infomration unless you get a claim form and then it becomes part of your evidence. More useful would be photos of the site as it was when you got the invoice for as they may change the signs at any time and these PPC things go on for months and months before they issue a claim, if at all.

[Chico_Talent]

Ah okay,

 

Definatly agree with you dx100uk about running before I can walk!

 

I have the pictures of the site and of their signs! So if they do try and change them before court case I will know!