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    • Hi, In my last post I mentioned I had received an email from SS who were asking me to hand over the keys to my mother’s flat so they could pass them to the Law firm who have been appointed court of protection to access, secure and insure my mother’s property.  Feeling this, all quickly getting out of my hands I emailed ss requesting proof of this. I HAVEN’T HEARD BACK FROM SS.  Yesterday, I received an email (with attached court of protection order) from the Law Firm confirming this was correct (please see below a copy of this).  After reading the court of protection order I do have some concerns about it:   (a)   I only found out yesterday, the Law firm had been appointed by the court back in January.  Up until now, I have not received any notification regarding this.  (b)   Section 2   - States I am estranged from my mother.  This is NOT CORRECT    The only reason I stepped back from my mother was to protect myself from the guy (groomer) who had befriended her & was very aggressive towards me & because of my mother’s dementia she had become aggressive also.  I constantly tried to warned SS about this guy's manipulative behaviour towards my mother and his increasing aggressiveness towards me (as mentioned in previous posts).  Each time I was ignored.  Instead, SS encouraged his involvement with my mother – including him in her care plans and mental health assessments.   I was literally pushed out because I feared him and my mother’s increasing aggression towards me. Up until I stepped back, I had always looked after my mother and since her admission to the care home, I visit regularly.   .(c)    Sections -  4, 5 and 7  I am struggling to understand these as I don’t have a legal background.  I was wondering if there is anyone who might be able to explain what they mean.  It’s been a horrendous situation where I had to walk away from my mother at her most vulnerable because of; ss (not helping), scammer and groomer. I have no legal background, nor experience in highly manipulative people or an understanding of how the SS system operates, finding myself isolated, scared and powerless to the point I haven’t collected my personal belongings and items for my mother’s room in the care home.  Sadly, the court has only had heard one version of this story SS’s, and based their decision on that. My mother’s situation and the experience I have gone through could happen to anyone who has a vulnerable parent.    If anyone any thoughts on this much appreciated.  Thank you. ______________________________________________________  (Below is the Court of Protection Order)  COURT OF PROTECTION                                                                                                                                                                                   No xxx  MENTAL CAPACITY ACT 2005 In the matter of Name xxx ORDER Made by  Depty District Judge At xxx Made on xxx Issued on 18 January 2024  WHEREAS  1.     xxx Solicitors, Address xxx  ("Applicant”) has applied for an order under the Mental Capacity Act 2005.  2.     The Court notes (my mother) is said to be estranged from all her three children and only one, (me) has been notified.  3.     (Me) was previously appointed as Atorney for Property and Affairs for (my mother).  The Exhibity NAJ at (date) refers to (me) and all replacement Attorneys are now officially standing down.  4.     Pursuant to Rule 9.10 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 and Practice Direction 9B the Applicant 2must seek to identify at least three persons who are likely to have an interest in being notified that an application has been issues.”  The children of (my mother), and any other appointed attorneys are likely to have an interest in the application, because of the nature of relationship to (my mother).  5.     The Court considers that the notification requirements are an important safeguard for the person in respect of whom an order is sought.  6.     The Court notes that it is said that the local authority no longer has access to (my mother’s) Property.  7.     Further information is required for the Court to determine the application.  IT IS ORDERED THAT  Within 28 days of the issue date this order, the Applicant shall file a form COP24 witness statement confirming that the other children of (my mother) and any replacement attorneys have been notified of the application and shall confirm their name, address, and date upon which those persons were notified.  If the Applicant wishes the Court to dispense with any further notification, they should file a COP9 and COP24 explaining, what steps (if any) have been taken to attempt notification and why notification should be dispensed with.   Pending the determination of the application to appoint a deputy for (my mother), the Applicant is authorised to take such steps as are proportionate and necessary to access, secure and insure the house and property of (my mother).   This order was made without a hearing and without notice.  Any person affected by this order may apply within 21 days of the date on which the order was served to have the order set aside or varied pursuant to Rule 13.4 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 (“the Rules”).  Such application must be made on Form COP9 and in accordance with Part 10 Rules.              
    • Unless I've got an incorrect copy of the relevant regulation: The PCN is only deemed to have arrived two days after dispatch "unless the contrary is proved" in which case date of delivery does matter (not just date of posting) and I would like clarification of the required standard of proof. It seems perhaps this hasn't been tested. Since post is now barcoded for the Post Office's own tracking purposes perhaps there is some way I can get that evidence from the Post Office...
    • I would say You should accept it - I HIGHLY doubt you will  be able to claim for letters at trial ans they’re offering you that, which is higher monetary value than interest.   Also they raise a good point, getting interest at anything above 4% is lucky these days, yes judges give it, but rarily above 4%   Also you might find depending on the judge  you don’t get some costs if you take it all the way over £7.40 when court woukdnt award letters costs and thus meaning their award would be less than evris offer which was made    Up to you though but the wait will be 3-4mo for a trial date at least
    • Hi Folks, Been 162 days! Just by way of update. Today I received a text from Opos Ltd so no doubt Capquest are renting the debt out to anybody who fancies a nibble. Safe to say I will not be responding.
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Harlands/CRS x4L..charges


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I’ve seen a lot of threads about this and need some advice

 

in December 2018 I missed a £12 DD payment, it was my final payment in a 12 month contract,

I didn’t realise this only to be emailed about 3 months later telling me to contact CRS and that I owed them over £100,

 

I didn’t realise this forum was here and stupidly agreed to pay them £15 a month to cover the cost.

I lost my job while pregnant so more of the DD failed and they put a £25 charge on top.

Now with all of the interest and fees the total there saying I owe is £212.08.

 

I’ve called them and explained my situation has drastically changed over the past few months since having my baby and my partner being diagnosed with epilepsy and everything that goes with that situation. 


they have frozen my account for 30 days to see if anything changes and say they can bring the amount down to £184,

I said at most I could pay £5 a month which is apparently fine..

 

but after finding these threads and reading everything that’s said I wish I hadn’t of contacted them,

especially since this has stemmed from 1 missed £12 payment it’s extortionate can any one offer any advice as what to do after the 30 days are up.

 

I’m so stressed trying to manage money as it is as well as having a newborn, I don’t know what to do. 


thanks for any help 

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So how much did you pay them in addition to covering the missing £12?

The advice here is going to be to send them a single letter telling them that they've had enough and you are not prepared to pay any more and although you don't agree that they are entitled to claim anything, if they are entitled then they would only be able to recover administrative costs caused by any breach which you may have committed – which is not admitted.

Tell them that you have paid well over the odds now and if they want they can take you to court and in which case you will be counterclaim for the return of the money paid in excess of administrative losses.

I'm sure that @slick132 will be along shortly to confirm this or to give you better advice.

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Don't have any telephone conversations with them at all. Also, read our customer services guide and implement the advice there for all future dealings with them and any other company you ever deal with – ever.

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To be honest I’m not entirely sure how much I’ve paid I’m going to sit down now and try and figure it all out. 
and will draft a letter stating how much I’ve already paid. Will reply once I know the figure. 
many thanks 

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Thread moved to the appropriate forum ..please continue to post here to your thread.

 

Andy

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I’ve just looked through my bank and cannot believe I didn’t do this before! 
they tried to take the DD £12.79 31/10/18 didn’t go through.

They then tried on the 12/11/18 to take £37.79 the £25 charge added.

Didn’t go through.

 

then on the 31/12/2018 they did take £50 which effectively should have covered the cost of any outstanding payments. 
I have since given them a further £60 in 4 DD payments of £15 each from 24/06 to 23/09. 
I’ve paid them a total of £110. 
where should I go from here? 

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Write the letter that I have suggested. Don't start telling them how much you paid. Simply tell them that you're not going to pay any more. Challenge the direct debit with your bank under the direct debit guarantee.

Tell them that the direct debit payments weren't authorised and were in fact unlawful charges and you want the money back.

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Cancel the DD

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Write the letter. Only one letter and then don't have anything more to do with them. You will probably receive threats et cetera. Keep them all but don't respond

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They will eventually stop – but if they give you any trouble then come here. If they did take you to court then you have an excellent defence that they are attempting to apply an unenforceable penalty.

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gyms don't do court

and don't appear on credit files.

 

pers i'd go ring you bank and using the DD guarantee i'd go get back all the payments you've made since that 1st missed payment.

THEN WRITE to harlands using one of the slick132 letters here in many threads

OFFERING the ONE further £12 membership fee ONLY, without any additional unlawful penalty fees included.

give them 14 days to write and accept this offer, else you will then be totally ignoring them and their powerless DCA.

 

dx

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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You should never use email or give one

Just gives them a free way to harrass you

Block and bounce them always

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi AVF,

 

Before you do anything more, please confirm :-

 

1. Date  you last used the gym, exact or approx date please.

 

2. Date the 12 month m/ship ended.

 

We can then consider the circumstances and suggest your next best move and how much, if any, you should reclaim from the bank.

 

It doesn't matter what you agreed to pay or allowed them to take using the DD. They were taking unlawful penalty charges which you may be able to reclaim using the DD Guarantee Scheme.

 

As said already, they don't do court action and this will not affect your credit records. Harlands/CRS are just chancers who make far more from charging an individual admin fees than they do from charging the gym a small % for collecting the monthly fees.

 

Let us know the answers and we'll take it from there. No more phone contact and written letters only, once we decide what you need to say to them.

 

😎

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Last used the gym around September/October 2018. Membership officially ended 31 December 2018. 
£50 was taken from my account on that day. And £60 since. 
thanks so much for your help. Can’t believe I’ve only just seen this thread. Seriously put my mind at ease 

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They got £110 out of you when you only owed £12...!!.

Go get it all back then send letter

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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This is how I see your case.

 

Your m/ship minimum period ended at the end of December but it was still YOUR responsibility to cancel the agreement giving a month's notice. See our Guide here - https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/383678-cancelling-your-gym-agreement-get-it-right/

 

 

However Harlands' attempt to charge unlawful admin fees for the missed December DD gave you good reason to end your agreement with them and stop them using the DD to collect whatever they felt you owed.

 

I suggest you owed ONLY the missed December fee and nothing beyond that.

 

Accordingly, I suggest you reclaim all DD payments beyond what was owed for December. If you paid £15 by DD instead of the £12 monthly fee, ignore the £3 overpayment but reclaim all DD's taken since then.

 

Make a list of the DD's you need to reclaim and tell the bank the amount and date of each DD you now need refunded to your account.

 

Tell us the amount you want to reclaim via the DD Guarantee Scheme and we'll help you with a letter to send to Harlands telling them what you've done and why.

We could do with some help from you

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  • 2 weeks later...

ring your card provider as post 13

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Speak to the bank, quote the DD Guarantee Scheme, tell them the DD mandate has been misused by Harlands and you require the £60 to be refunded to your bank.

 

You don't need to justify your claim to the bank and they should return the money easily and quickly.

 

Once you have done this, let us know and I'll suggest a letter for you to send to Harlands.

 

😎

We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

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why only £60?

they unlawfully used to DD and took £110 for one months missed £12 membership!!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

that's why I said earlier to request ALL the DD's back since that missed payment

THEN well write a letter offering the £12 missed fee.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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