In a real panic - ** RESOLVED **

[Sheptonfuchsias 0]

Okay where do I start. 

 

I passed my test on 5th January 2017 so my 2 year new driver provisions expired on the 5th January 2019.

 

In May last year I was pulled over by the police and told my mot had expired by 2 days and there was no tax on the car. I knew about the tax and took a risk and lost the gamble so fair cop. Got a £100 fine for no Mot.

 

At the time the officer took all my details. My address didn't match that on my license so I explained I had moved. He took the new address and told me all paperwork would go to the new address and the DVLA would update their records when he filed his report on no tax so I assumed the DVLA would know of my address change and didn't report a change of address on my vehicle.

 

Stupidly i never thought about changing the address on my license because in all honesty given I had been caught in a motoring offence it would update automatically. 

 

this morning I received a letter from the court services about unpaid fines and they were doing an attachment of earnings. I haven't had any fines that I knew of so tried checking online and it suggested it might be a motoring offence 

 

There is a facility to check your license online and to my sheer horror I saw my license had been revoked in December last year. 

 

I rang the DVLA to ask what had happened as I have been driving for 10 months apparently with no license. I have insurance, car tax and Mot and not once has anything flagged up. 

 

Apparently I was supposed to have had a NIP last year and because I failed to respond they took it to court in my absence and fined me £660 and put 6 points on my license which was an automatic license revocation. 

 

I know absolutely nothing about any motoring offence and have never been stopped by the police. I have had absolutely no correspondence from anyone and apparently it was all sent to the old address which I thought they would have changed when my offence last year was dealt with. 

 

I am in a complete panic as I have to drive so I can get to work as its 25 miles from home. I can't drive now because I don't have a license that is valid. 

 

I haven't a clue what to do but surely something can be done because I haven't been told I had committed an offence and to lose my license because of it seems so unfair. If I had the slightest inkling about an offence I would have dealt with it

 

I honestly didn't know until I received the attachment of earnings today I had even been charged with a motoring offence other than the one I already knew about and had dealt with. I didn't get points for that just a fine... 

 

Anyone able to help as I am in deep deep doo-doo if I have lost my license 

 

 

[Will Goodfellow 3]

What are the 6 points for?

[Sheptonfuchsias 0]

44 minutes ago, Will Goodfellow said:

What are the 6 points for?

For failing to report the driver of a vehicle. 

 

The problem of coarse 

 

1) i have no idea what driving offence the request for the driver was about 

 

2) I haven't had any letter from the court, DVLA or anyone.... Absolutely nothing till the attachment of earnings letter landed on my doorstep today 

[Man in the middle 592]

Quote

He took the new address and told me all paperwork would go to the new address and the DVLA would update their records when he filed his report on no tax so I assumed the DVLA would know of my address change and didn't report a change of address on my vehicle.

 

Big mistake. Only you can update your details with the DVLA. They will not react to anything the police or anybody else tells them. Quite why the officer told you otherwise is a mystery and that is obviously the cause of all this.

 

First of all you need to find out which court convicted you (for failing to provide the driver’s details) and when. The DVLA should be able to give you that information. Then you need to perform a “statutory declaration” (SD). This is a statement sworn before either a Magistrate  or a solicitor that you knew nothing of the conviction recorded against you.

 

What happens next depends very much on what the original accusation was, but get the SD done first. This will “set aside” your conviction. The police will then have to decide whether to resurrect the “Fail to supply driver’s details”  charge (they almost certainly will) but find out what the original offence was, get the SD done and then come back.

 

You must get the SD done within 21 days of finding out about your conviction. You can do it free of charge at the Magistrates’ court or at a solicitor’s (who may charge you a small fee of £5 to £10). If you do it at a court you will have to make an appointment and you may not get one within three weeks. The legal position is that the court must accept your SD if made within three weeks but has the discretion to do so later. If you cannot get an appointment early enough that will not jeopardise you. However, my advice is to undertake your SD at a solicitors. This is because most courts now put the  charge immediately to the defendant following the SD. You want a bit of a breathing space so as to consider what next to do because you want, if possible, to avoid the “Fail to Provide” charge.

 

You should not drive until you have it confirmed from the DVLA that your conviction has been set aside and your licence has been reinstated. You may need to apply for a new one but the DVLA will advise you on that.

Edited September 21 by Man in the middle

[Sheptonfuchsias 0]

Thanks for the advice. 

 

So actually what I am doing is appealing the failure to supply drivers details which they will then re instigate. 

 

If that happens what can I do as the punishment is 6 points. However that would take me over the 2 year period and I would be able to keep my license.  Or would it then apply from the original date of the offence or the date it originally went to court. 

 

If I do file. SD would that then overturn the 6 points until the matter is dealt with or do they remain there. 

 

Sorry to be a pain but I am in a state of panic

[honeybee13 3,915]

You're in good hands with Man in the Middle, do what he says and you can deal with this. No need to panic.

 

HB

[Sheptonfuchsias 0]

Thanks honeybee. 

 

But I am absolutely panicking like hell. I have been driving without a license for the last 10 months and now cannot get to work and living in a rural area I am not reliant on public transport.. 

 

I just don't know what the hell I am going to do if they don't allow me to keep my licence 

[Man in the middle 592]

Quote

So actually what I am doing is appealing the failure to supply drivers details which they will then re instigate.

 

No you're not appealing, as such. You're making a declaration to say that you knew nothing of the proceedings against you. You should not be convicted (of any offence) unless you were aware of the case against you. This applies even if, as seems likely in your case, the reason you were not notified is largely because of your failing. What happens is that the conviction is set aside (i.e. as if it never happened). The points should be removed from your record and your licence reinstated. (I'm not sure of the mechanics for that - whether it is reinstated automatically or whether you have to apply for a new licence - the DVLA will tell you).

 

After that the police will almost certainly begin the proceedings (for the "Fail to Supply" offence) again. I imagine (though I'm only guessing) what happened is that your car was detected speeding or perhaps running a red light. Because no reply was received to the request to name the driver court action followed for failure to do so. We're stepping ahead a little but if the original allegation was speeding or a red light offence, and you accept you were driving at the time, there may be a way to get the matter reverted to that. Those offences, unless serious, carry only three points. But let's not worry about that just yet.

 

Just one more thing. You said you failed to notify a change of address on your driving licence. Did you fail to notify the DVLA that the address held against your vehicle had changed as well? Your licence does not come into play when a speeding/red light allegation is made. The police write to the Registered Keeper at the address held by the DVLA for that vehicle. If you didn't tell them it had changed all the paperwork would have gone to your previous address.

 

Finally, the delay in settling matters will not help. It is the date of the offence(s) that count when calculating the two year probationary period under which your licence was revoked.

 

 

Edited September 21 by Man in the middle

[Sheptonfuchsias 0]

I rather stupidly assumed when the policeman last year took my details and my new address they would automatically update the address. That belief was further enhanced when the fine for no Mot came to my new address. I just assumed they would alter the address on the system.

 

Clearly that was a rather costly assumption. 

[Sheptonfuchsias 0]

On 21/09/2019 at 19:31, Man in the middle said:

 

 

Finally, the delay in settling matters will not help. It is the date of the offence(s) that count when calculating the two year probationary period under which your licence was revoked.

 

Quote

 

 

 

I am a bit confused about this. 

 

On the DVLA site it says the offence was on the 21st December 2018.

 

 Is that the date that I supposedly committed a traffic offence, the date it went to court or the date by which I should have responded by had I received the notice of intended prosecution. 

 

If its the date of the offence surely that would be wrong as the police have to alkow me time to respond. The offence of falling to provide details didn't occur until the point at which the time limit set by the police had passed. I may have been guilty of a traffic offence on that date but I wouldn't have been guilty of falling to provide details because at that point I hadn't been asked to name the driver and I hadn't broken the law by falling to provide details. 

 

 

If its the date on which it went to court then surely because that conviction is set aside and the process restarted then should I plead guilty the points would be added again but on a different date which would have be after the 2 year period and I would keep my license. 

 

That would then imply the offence was comitted by failing to supply details by a set date. Once that date had passed I had committed an offence. The police gave me till 21st December to provide details and once the 21st had come and gone I was deemed to have broken the law. The 21st was the cut off date and the date that I am deemed to be guilty thus that is stated as the date of the offence. 

 

On a nutshell they say the offence was committed on 21.12.18 but which of the scenarios above is that date relevant 

[Sheptonfuchsias 0]

Here is an uodate

 

I was caught by a camera doing 54 mph in a 40mph zone on 18.11.2018.

 

The police apparantly wrote to me on 21.12.2018 asking for information on the driver. 

 

Because it went to a previous address I never knew anything about it. It then went to court in June 2019 and six points and £660 fine was awarded. 

 

This information has come from the court services so this opens up some further questions. 

 

Firstly It would definitely have been me driving. No one else ever drove my car and the road in question was a road I would have been driving down to get to work is where the offence occurred. So I have no argument against the original offence of speeding. 

 

However if as the court service says they wrote to me on 21. 12.18 then that would conflict with the date the offence is claimed to have been made. 

 

I believe you have 28 days from the date of request to provide the driver details. If as the court service says the letter was sent on 21.12.18 that would mean I had to respond by 18.01.2019. As I failed to respond then the offence of failing to supply details wouldn't have happened until the 19.1.2019.

 

If this is correct becuase my 2 year probationary period expired on 5.1.5019 I would not have my license revoked but still had the 6 points. 

 

The date the letter was sent surely is important because the offence isn't committed the day they ask for the details but the date they told to respond by. Once that date is passed I have committed an offence. Up till that point I haven't done anything wrong 

 

Your thoughts please

[Man in the middle 592]

Quote

The police apparantly wrote to me on 21.12.2018 asking for information on the driver. 

 

Are you sure it was 21.12.18? If the speeding offence was committed on 18th November the police have 14 days to serve the Notice of Intended Prosecution (which is sent with the request for driver's details)  on you. They rarely fail to do this and usually do so within a few days. If they sent it on 21st November you would have had until late December to respond and so would have committed the "Fail to Provide" offence then. 

Edited September 23 by Man in the middle

[Sheptonfuchsias 0]

 I rang the enforcement section for the court and she clearly said the notice to provide details was sent on the 21.12.18.

 

Hence why I asked because if she is correct and the letter was sent on the 21st then I cannot be guilty of an offence till the 28 days is up. And that would have been mid January at the earliest thus the six points shouldbt have been given till that date at the earliest and after my 2 year period had passed. She did say that its normal practise to send a letter telling me to respond in 28 days. If I dont reply its standard practise to send a reminder notice. If that were the case I fail to see how they reach an offence date of 21.12.18 

 

Anyway I have today asked to file a statutory declaration and have an appointment on 18.10.19. 

 

If course my claim will be and quite truthfully I didn't know about it. Hence I never replied

 

Hopefully all will be good. The lady at the court said if I were to plead guilty to the original offence they would in all likelihood drop the failure to supply charge and I would get points instead of 6 and I would get my license back.

 

[Sheptonfuchsias 0]

The outcome. 

 

Went to court and filed a SD. They asked if I pleaded guilty or not guilty to speeding. Accepted the charge.

Three points put on my license and £165 fine. 

 

More importantly the six points removed and the £660 fine quashed so no attachment of earnings and I am able to drive now my licensee has been restored. 

 

 

Thanks for the advice and help. 

[honeybee13 3,915]

Hi. Thank you for the update, that sounds like a position you're prepared to live with?

 

HB

[Sheptonfuchsias 0]

2 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

Hi. Thank you for the update, that sounds like a position you're prepared to live with?

 

HB

Indeed. 

 

I was happy to be fined and get points if I had been caught speeding. But to lose my license for an offence I knew nothing about didn't seem appropriate justice 

 

All good now and you learn by mistakes. Could have been alot more costly but thankfully all came good and I am now able to drive again. 

[honeybee13 3,915]

That's good, I'll amend your thread title.

 

HB