OH's IDEM claimform - MBNA credit card debt

[blondiegirl]

OK Andyorch, thank you.

 

I take your point about Idem's timescales, and that I can still agree to a Tomlin order whether I respond by THEIR date.

 

I have to have a think as decide whether I think a judge is more than likely to side with Idem. I was hopeful that with no credit agreement, and the fact that it was actually Idem that issued a default notice and not MBNA that we stood a good chance. From your comments, I'm not so sure.

 

It's a really hard decision to make as I've always been prepared (albeit a bit nervous at a negative outcome) to go to court. Now, I wondering whether a Tomlin order is better????

[shamrocker]

You should view this as a bit of a game of poker, and choose to play it according to the hand you hold, how the possible outcomes will affect you,

and how the opposition appear to be playing their hand.

 

If you're clutching at straws a bit and also don't have the experience to use what you've got to best effect, then you should certainly be considering all options open to you. The fact the agreement is post 2007 gives them some wriggle room, so you can't depend on it really.A Tomlin in this instance might be a safe bet for you, but please remember that you do not have to settle for amount they're claiming.

 

Taking this to a hearing will cost them a few quid, and they will be aware there's no guarantee they'll win either.They might even be aware of certain weaknesses that you've not identified and could be nervous.The fact they've offered a Tomlin at all shows they would rather take something than risk getting nothing, or that it would present a commercially viable option for them.

 

If you could afford £25 per month, tell them that you believe you have a good chance of being successful at the hearing, but offer them £1,500 over 60 months under the Tomlin Order.Request that the Claimant pay the £100 fee. You can still pay the settlement amount in one hit if you can afford it, then the matter goes away.

 

They may not accept it though, so you have to return with an increased offer or tell them you'll proceed to the hearing and see how they respond.

[blondiegirl]

Thanks very much for that.

 

The 'agreement' or lack thereof, was in 2000. 

But they've sent other things like an MBNA credit card statement from 2012 and so say, a letter of assignment (don't remember getting that).

 

They haven't provided a signed agreement, but in reality, anyone can see that the debt was ours.

 

I have a month to go, so I will see what I can do.

 

 

 

 

[blondiegirl]

Having thought about this, and given their 'good' evidence against us, I think that a Tomlin order attempt might be my best option.

 

I know that there's no proper signed agreement and MBNA didn't ever issue a default notice (Idem did), but given all their other 'evidence', I think our changes of winning this one are slim. Also, having a further 18 months of bad credit is not what I want.

 

All I have ever wanted is a clean credit file.

Once these default markers drop off, we can move on, and just pay the minimal which will just carry on in the background.

If we go to court, and lose, we will have a CCJ for 6 years from that date. 

 

I know I've often had replies which strongly suggest going to court, however, I don't necessarily agree that this is a risk worth taking.

I think the odds are stacked against us.

 

I may have better luck with the other account which Idem have issued court proceedings for.

But for this one, I think I should negotiate a Tomlin Order.

 

Any thoughts?

 

And how do I instigate trying to get a Tomlin order? Court date is mid March.

[AndyOrch]

They have already proposed one in your upload post #163...but you must respond by the 18th Feb

[blondiegirl]

Thanks Andyorch.

 

Damn. I misunderstood your comments on post #170 about timescales. I read "don't let a claimant impost time deadlines.........they impose the time limit because they have to pay the hearing fee". I can print a letter tomorrow and get it back first class though so they will received it Tuesday.

 

Is it a case of just filling in their 1-page paperwork/income/expenditure form (as we've gone through the CCCS/Stepchange, I will just add in the same figures which are correct) and wait for their reply? Or should I include a letter?

 

Also, if £2947 is owed, is there a sensible amount to propose owing such as the £1500 over 60 months which has been suggested?

 

Thanks  

 

[AndyOrch]

No you didn't misunderstand.....the Tomlin should be on offer throughout and up until the hearing date...but its the claimant prerogative whether to offer or decline...that date deadline is probably imposed with regards to them paying the hearing fee I suspect.

 

With regards to actioning it....there is nothing to stop you contacting the claim handler by telephone tomorrow and enquire and ask if the settlement figure is negotiable.?

[blondiegirl]

I thought that the date as such didn't matter as it was their date.

I'll complete their form today and send it off.

 

My OH is working away this week and without all the information it's not a call he'll want to make so I will have to put a letter together.

 

As their only 'instructions' is to complete the income/expenditure, I'll do that and send it off today so that they can hopefully start proceedings on that.

 

As time is of the urgency, I'd really appreciate advice please.

[blondiegirl]

Something like this?

 

To whom it may concern,

 

Please find enclosed a completed income and expenditure form. As you can see, there is £45 available per month.

 

Should a Tomlin order be considered the way forward, as a gesture of good will I would propose a payment of £45 per month to you for a total of 24 months (2 years) to the total amount of £1,080.00 and the claim be stayed immediately.

 

As is part of the defence and as you will be aware, Idem is still yet to provide a true copy of a signed credit agreement.

 

You will be aware that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974:

 (1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

(a)a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b)the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

(c)the document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible.

 

To date, Idem is still yet to provide a true copy of a signed, credit agreement. All that has been provided is an illegible photocopy of an application form with generic pages attached which would prove very weak in a claim.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.  

[AndyOrch]

The date shouldn't matter normally...its just that it coincides with their hearing fee payment date...thats why its been imposed......but be aware that hearing fees are refundable if the correct notice is given to court.

 

I dont think you are going to get a settlement figure of the above amount given that its a payment plan...it will be the full amount on the claim form + £100 Tomlin Fee.So realistically tou need to be looking at spreading over a longer period.

 

Its not a gesture of good will given you are the debtors they dont have to accept anything apart from the full amount.Time is of the essence here and your letter will not arrive in time by tomorrow...so either yourself or hubby must make that call today and stop the hearing fee....they invite you either complete the I&E or by telephone,

[blondiegirl]

OK thanks. It was suggested on here that the term and amount was negotiable so I thought I'd give that a go. 

 

I'll try and call but I doubt they will discuss anything with me and hubby can't have his phone on in work so I will send the I&E off as it should get there by tomorrow with first class post. I wanted to put a cover letter in with it.

 

 

[AndyOrch]

Yes I suggested it.....but not less than 50%...... you cant really negotiate with a letter you have to ring them.

[blondiegirl]

Understood, thanks

 

I can't discuss this with my OH until later on this evening and given that they won't discuss his account with me, I have to get something to them by tomorrow. 

If I send off their I&E sheet for tomorrow, I've followed their instructions. Phone calls can then follow when he's back home.

I just wanted to put a cover letter to indicate a Tomlin order being the way forward.

 

 

[shamrocker]

You can offer them any figure you like, but they don't have to accept it. The figure needs to be sensible and should represent value to the Claimant. My own approach is that by offering a lower amount than what's being claimed, the Claimant gets to save on the costs they'd have incurred by going all the way to trial - therefore, the sooner the offer is made, the better really. You can then add in a bit for the fact you may contest things such as penalty fees that the judge may be inclined to knock off. Then you can reduce it a bit based on the fact they will be nervous about losing, so may be more open to negotiation.

 

It's not an exact science, but you need to appear realistic and sensible. Fully understand why you're making the offer and why the offered amount may be appealing to the claimant. Too low and you risk antagonising them - too high and you're giving away money. View it as a commercially based negotiation. If they think their claim is rock solid, they'll be unlikely to budge - but why would they offer a Tomlin if they were completely confident? They will also be aware that even if they win the case, you may never pay up and may duck and dive forever more - it's time and money wasted by them. Just keep it in mind.

 

My suggestion of £1,500 was definitely on the cheeky side, so even that could be taken the wrong way by them. If you want to ensure you're taken seriously, then perhaps knock a third off, or £500 maybe. As Andy says, a one-off payment will give you more leverage, but whatever you offer, if you need to do it by way of a payment plan, make sure it's completely affordable or you may regret it later.

Edited February 17, 2020 by shamrocker

[blondiegirl]

Thanks both.

 

The amount owed is nearly £3k. And I guess without a signed agreement, there's no definite outcome of them winning, but I think they will.

 

I don't know if they issue the option of Tomlin orders as standard, or whether it's where they think there's doubt on them winning in this case - there's certainly no signed agreement. But it's the best option for us right now if they agree.

 

They expected £100-odd a month on a plan which we couldn't afford, which is where the arrears started; they refused to negotiate and said arrears will build up and up which they have. 

 

Anyway, I realise that this is the 11th hour, so I am pretty desperate here and I have to get something in the post today, husband to call later on in the week. He could suggest £2000 at £45 a month.

 

But first priority is getting the I&E back, which I can do today. Do I need a cover letter simply to say that they don't need to pay the court fee?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AndyOrch]

I personally wouldn't even send an I&E...your affordability is none of their business....just make a realistic affordable one say 4 years ? have you actually tried ringing them and say your speaking on behalf of your hubby ?

 

The priority here is letting them know today that you are open to a Tomlin Order...negotiable amount....and to stop the the £170 hearing fee being added to your debt.

[blondiegirl]

I will call them now.

 

 

[blondiegirl]

OK, they said that couldn't discuss it with me, but......after some persuasion I said I didn't want them to give me any information about my OH's account I just wanted to pass a message on to avoid unnecessary action and fees.

 

They've agreed to hold all proceedings for a week until close of play next Monday.

 

But, doesn't that mean that they'll have missed the deadline to pay the court fees??

[AndyOrch]

No...as I've already advised you ...they can get a refund with the appropriate notice.

[blondiegirl]

Thank you. So they'll pay the fee anyway and can get a refund if the Tomlin order goes ahead?

 

Is there anything I can do to prepare for this phone call?

 

What are they likely to ask?

 

The last time we discussed anything with them, they refused to accept reduced payments and weren't overly helpful.

 

 

[AndyOrch]

Shamrocker has explained quite succinctly above the options available and understanding how to negotiate...the bottom line is it has to be realistic...affordable and mutually acceptable as per their letter.

 

 

[blondiegirl]

It was great advice, and I'm grateful for it. Thank you Shamrocker.

 

I just wondered how the phone calls go? I've only spoken to Idem once before (aside from today) and they weren't very helpful and refused to accept our offer.

 

Obviously I want the best outcome possible for us, so I want to be as prepared as possible.

 

[blondiegirl]

Last week, I called Idem to say that my husband was unable to call them due to working away and no signal. They said they'd expect him to call next week.

 

In the mean time this letter has arrived. Is this standard stuff?

 

Thank you as always  

letter from Idem 220220.pdf

[dx100uk]

might pay you to await their ws to see their hand exactly before tomiln calling?

 

dx

[AndyOrch]

Interesting I didn't know re refunds have been abolished since 6 March 2017 with regards to hearing fees....strange they should mention in their letter re refunds and also the question of returning the I&E.....you would think they are telepathic or following this thread ? 

 

https://www.ashfords.co.uk/news-and-media/general/changes-to-policy-on-hearing-fees