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    • Thank you. MCOL all done. Does my CPR 31.14 request letter seem okay? ****** ****** ****** *****   Lowell Solicitors Limited PO Box 1419 Northampton NN2 1BU   21st October 2019   Dear Sir/Madam,   Re: Lowell Portfolio 1 Ltd v Mr ****** ****** Case No: *********** CPR 31.14 Request   On Friday 18th October 2019 I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton County Court Business Centre.   I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.   Prior to the issue of proceedings, I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored.   Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following documents mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:   1: The Agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.   2: Notice of Assignment   3: The Default Notice   4: The Termination Notice   5: Statement of Account      Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £10,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise.    You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are disclosed at your earliest convenience. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.   Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any versions to include an obligation to recover and preserve such versions which are now in the possession of a third party.   In accordance with CPR 31.15, I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.   If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request, please confirm this in your response.     Yours faithfully,   *************
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egebamyasi

bradford factor - verbal warning straight to dismissal

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hi there, 

just looking for a bit advice, and hopefully some reassurance!

my employer uses the bradford factor score for absences.  i have three children in primary school and i am the main carer of the children as i'm the part time worker (i understand this doesn't mean too much to an employer)....as a result of their sickness in the last 12 months my bradford factor score meant that i got a verbal warning.  a couple of months after this was issued i sprained my ankle resulting in three weeks absent from work (i work term time only and the remainder of my bad ankle took place during the summer holidays).  this sent my bradford factor score sky high to 1078....that takes me into the bracket of a disciplinary meeting which could result in dismissal.

i had that meeting today.

my mitigating factors that i stated was that it is a one of accident and it is not recurring, i am now back at work with no ongoing issues.  1 week of the signing off work was during the start of the summer holidays, had i only got my doctor to sign me off to the end of the holiday my bradford factor would not have been so high and i would be in the "written warning" bracket.

i also said that due to the seriousness of my bradford factor score that my partner would be able to take the brunt of the kids being off sick, he has discussed it with his manager and they have agreed for him to work on those days to give me a chance to get my score back down to reasonable levels.

i kind of stated my case that i am a good and valued worker and that i also make up missed hours, though i do understand this doesn't mean i can mess up my contractual hours...i play an active part in other aspects of the workplace including being a on a support staff comittee council, that i don't see it as "just a part-time job", that my workplace is important to me.

so really, my question is...can they still dismiss me or do they still have to follow the process of verbal and then 2 written warnings before dismissal?

thanks in advance for any help/advice

 

Edited by egebamyasi

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56 minutes ago, egebamyasi said:

i meant to write that if i'd got the doctor to sign me off 'til the end of term, not summer holiday....apologies



 

 

 

Edited by egebamyasi

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You've done all that you could.

The only thing i would ask is if you are in a union so to have some support.

With regards to getting the doctors to sign you off for longer and avoid triggering a more serious warning, I say that no employer will help you, especially the large corporations,  so if you are not 100% don't return to work.

And if you must adhere to their nonsense policies to avoid a warning, unfortunately it's best to play their game than try to help them.

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annoyingly my union member ship lapsed a while ago, and i didn't set it back up again....oh hindsight is a wonderful thing!!!  i'm so pro union too, and see it like an insurance policy.  stupid, and lesson learned.  i do however have a bit of back up as my sister in law is pretty high up in hr and would represent me if needed (in a different company)

....she's away at the moment so couldn't contact her about this...and it's also nice to get other people's opinions.

i would've got the doctor to sign me off for less time as it went into the summer holidays (i only work term time, but they run sick pay over 12 months and so the bradford score is still added.) and then recovered the rest of the hols...

i hope that they will be reasonable and realise i'm not a slacker

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It all depends from who your manager is and what company you work for.

In my workplace (very large multinational) the super peetakers are the most respected.

The rule seems to be that if you tell everyone challenging you that they are victimising you and then you do whatever you want, you get rewarded.

So I joined this movement a long time ago but with a slight difference that I finish my work to requirement, no more, no less.

Just because I like the job, not because I feel I must please them.

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it's a private school, i'm support staff...not a teacher.

i don't know if that's a good or bad thing.  because it was the final step on their bradford chart my dept. manager wasn't in on the meeting.  if it was him, i'm sure i'd be fine, he's a good guy, a bit of a knob sometimes ;)  but on the whole he's has an understanding of life.  but this was out of his hands, he didn't like the situation himself and i'm pretty sure if they talk to him that he would confirm all that i said about my work within the dept. 

but i'm guessing from their point of view that the above doesn't mean much if i haven't managed to do my contractual hours 😕

so it is a possibility that they can dismiss me without a written warning?

thanks for your replies

 

 

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No, it's extremely unlikely that they will dismiss you, although not impossible. 

I have heard that some employers even sack staff like in the movies, "you're fired!"

Fortunately this doesn't happen often, in fact I never had confirmation of such things.

You should've received an invitation to a disciplinary meeting,  in that there should be an explanation of why you're being called and possible outcome.

i.e. misconduct, breached attendance policy.

You might receive a final written warning.

 

What does that letter say?

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Speaking as a former union rep, I would maintain that it is best to gen yourself up on your legal rights and not put your faith in a third party who may be stressed out and exhausted themself.

 

My best advice right now is to record the meeting if you can. You will find what is said and done at disciplinary meetings and what goes down as the official record can differ greatly.

 

Arrived early, knocked on the door and waited to be asked to take a seat can be recorded as arrived 15 minutes late, slammed into the room and hurled herself into a seat... I've seen this   happen with my own eyes.

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ok, so not impossible...i'm not out the woods yet then!

i was reading that if it went to tribunal they would have to show that they have taken all other options and gone through their procedures...i don't believe they can prove that, so i'm still hoping!

i did receive the invitation to a disciplinary and as in their guidelines it also stated in the letter that this could lead to a dismissal, it also advised that i could have somewhere with me, though i declined that option.

unfortunately i didn't record the meeting....though i could see the notes the person was taking, it's a small town that i live in and i have known her personally, so i don't believe that she would deliberately mislead in the notes.

maybe i place too much faith in those above me....i hope they don't prove me wrong

i'll let you all know the result, i 've not heard yet.

 

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So it's all done and dusted.

Don't jump ahead of time, thinking about tribunals and being dismissed. 

A little recommendation for future reference:

1. Record all meetings with management,  you never know when that recording will come handy.

2. If you can, always take someone with you, better if a union rep.

3. Don't trust anyone in the workplace,  they can be blackmailed by management and they will think to save themselves rather than you. On this last point there are exceptions of course and in my life I have come across honourable colleagues and managers who don't let anyone compromise their integrity. However as a rule of thumb,  better safe than sorry.

4. The note takers only take notes, then these notes are "reviewed" by managers and made available to you. Usually you won't be allowed to walk away from the meeting with photocopies of original notes because they need to be "reviewed".

Hence the need for a recording,  especially if it's a gross misconduct case.

Note: "Review" = Falsify

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review = backpedal and edit to read how they need it to read  rather than falsify.

As eric Morecambe said to Andre Previn, " I am playing all of the right notes but not necessarily in the right order"

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