Excel Windscreen PCN Claimform - Parked in a disabled space - MIDDLESBROUGH LIESURE PARK

[Stevie_T]

I just received a county court claim as a result of briefly parking in a disabled bay at a shopping centre some time ago.

 

The essence of the claim is that the parking company say that I entered into a contract with them based on the signs displayed there.

 

I'm contemplating a defence that I did NOT enter into a contract.

In fact I did not read the sign.

 

How can this be an enforceable with no signature.

I usually seek legal advice before entering into any contract.

 

Anyone got any advice please

[dx100uk]

please complete this:

 

 

[lookinforinfo]

If the signs comply with the regulations and are correctly positioned and there is Council permission for their signage as well as having a properly authorised contract with the land owners then that is sufficient to possibly establish a contract between the parking company and the motorist.

 

The fact that you did not see or read the signs is irrelevant.

However there are still other reasons that even if the parking company got all the things right in my first sentence [which is rare] that can damage the chance of them getting paid by motorists.

 

it would help therefore if you could kindly complete the above questionnaire.

 

You appear to have left matters a bit late [though quite often ignoring most of the twaddle from these rogues is the best course ] so speed is of the essence at the moment.

[ericsbrother]

you say briefly so how long was the parking event?

 

please give us all the relevant details such as name of company, place where the event took place, date and time and what paperwork you received and what you still have.

 

Thtye have to follow very precise procedures to make a successful claim so we need to see what has occurred so far so as to comment on the liklihood of defending such a claim successfully ( generally very high)

 

If you live near to the place we would like pictures of the signage at the entrance to the car park and the entrance even if there are no signs, picturs of the signs themselves and pictures of where exactly your car was parked.

 

Disabled spaces on private land have no definition in E&W so there is no proper sign but intent will be taken into account and that means the use of specific signage in each disabled bay, not just a pain job on the tarmac

[Stevie_T]

Responding quickly for now.

Will respond in depth with pics later today.

 

The CC Claim was issued 2nd Sept which I did not receive before I went on Hol 4th.

 

Just returned yesterday to find it.

I have a few days to respond and will respond that I dispute the claim.

The car park services 3 (formerly 5) very busy out of town stores.

I was there  10 - 15 mins - straight in and out.

No other parking spaces.

 

I do not have any of the earlier communications from these people EXCEL Parking Services LTD

- I ignored and binned each communication.

[dx100uk]

give us the info in the link

we'll tell you how to properly respond

dx

 

[Stevie_T]

Replying to questions posted earlier

 

=========PASTE================

Name of the Claimant ?

 

EXCEL PARKING SERVICES LTD

 

claimants Solicitors:

 

Not sure. I binned all previous correspondence

 

Date of issue –

 

2nd September 2019

 

 

What is the claim for

1."THE CLAIM IS THE BREACH OF CONTRACT FOR BREACHING THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS SET ON PRIVATE LAND.

 

2.THE DEFENDENT'S VEHICLE xxx xxx WAS IDENTIFIED IN THE MIDDLESBROUGH LIESURE PARK ON THE IN BREACH OF THE ADVERTISED TERMS AND CONDITIONS; NAMELY PARKED IN A DISABLED SPACE WITHOUT CLEARLY DISPLAYING A DISABLED PERSONS BADGE.

 

3.AT ALL MATERIAL TIMES THE DEFENDANT WAS THE REGISTERED KEEPER AND/OR DRIVER.

 

THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS ON ENTERING PRIVATE LAND WERE CLEARLY DISPLAYED AT THE ENTRANCE AND IN PROMINENT LOCATIONS.

 

THE SIGN WAS THE OFFER AND THE ACT OF ENTERING PRIVATE LAND WAS THE ACCEPTANCE OF THE OFFER HEREBY ENTERING INTO A CONTRACT BY CONDUCT.

 

THE SIGNS SPECIFICALLY DETAIL THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS AND THE CONSEQUENCES OF FAILURE TO COMPLY, NAMELY A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE WILL BE ISSUED,

 

4.AND THE DEFENDANT HAS FAILED TO SETTLE THE OUTSTANDING LIABILITY.

 

5.THE CLAIMANT SEEKS THE RECOVERY OF THE PARKING CHARGE NOTICE, CONTRACTUAL COSTS AND INTEREST.

**IMPORTANT** WE NEED TO SEE THE FULL POC MINUS YOUR PERS DETAILS>> NOT AN ABRIDGED VERSION**THIS MUST INCLUDE THE LOCATION

 

The above is verbatim copy of PoC including any omissions and errors. The highlighted text in blue would seem to be where the date ought to have been entered but it has not. Furthermore the location is STOCKTON  not Middlesbrough as stated and nor it is a Liesure park. It is a shopping area.

 

What is the value of the claim?

£160

court Fee £25

 

Has the claim been issued by the Private parking Company or was the PCN assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim ?

 

I believe the claim has been issued by the parking company

 

 

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
.
 register as an individual
 note the long gateway number given
 then log in
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked.
 click thru to the end
 confirm and exit MCOL.

 get that CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]

 

no need to sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

[Stevie_T]

I've logged on to that site and taken a look around.

Is there any merit in letting this roll to closer to the date limitations.

 

When I took out a claim against my back for bank charges some years ago they went to the 14 day limit and then to the 28 day limit

 

I've been back to take pictures and I find the name of the parking company is UKPC not Excel.

I've had a few of these as they are so easy to pick up e.g. overstaying by a few mins.

This is the only one I've received for a disabled bay so assuming this is the one.

Have UKPC transferred this to Excel?
 

 

Disabled Bay

 

 

Sign at entrance to car Park.

Another sign inside gives phone number for the owners/managers of the land

 

[dx100uk]

get all of post 8 done and read carefully.

please don't post pictures directly to a post

use ONE multipage pdf so we can zoom.

 

read upload

 

[ericsbrother]

Ok,

is there a place called Middlesborough liesure(sic) park that has a different location to where your vehicle was?

if there is they are stuffed from the outset and on my map Stockton is several miles away and doesnt have such a development.

 

as the place you are thinking of is managed by UKPC they would have nothing to do with VCS/Excel but it may be that they are on about a different event.

 

Now the Particulars of Claim are left vague becasue they use a template rather than waste time actually looking up the dertails and entering them.

 

This will damage their claim  but unfortunately unless the judge reading the papers has seen it all before it wont end up being summarily dismissed so you have to carry on as though you will have to attend court at some point next year.

 

Now what you need to do is send them a CPR 31.14 request for documents and include in the list of stuff you want copies of

the original ticket slapped on your vehicle,

a copy of the NTK they sent through the post and

proof of the assignment of authority from the landowner to enter into contracts with the public and to make civil claims in their own name.

 

you can point out that you are also maiing a request for all of the data they hold on you as a SAR anyway so they will be obliged to send most of it in a different timescale.

 

I hope that you are right about the error as that  will be something to raise with the ICO as a very serious matter

 

[Stevie_T]

The car park in Stockton is the only place I recall receiving a ticket for a disabled place 

 

Images in PDF for car park in Stockton

all.pdf

[Stevie_T]

At present I can not log in to MCOL - telling me that Claim No and/or password incorrect (which they are not)

[dx100uk]

we've seen a few reports over the last few days that MCOL is having unusual weekday hissy fits.

 

you got until day 19 to do AOS, so leave it a few hours and try again.

you have created a registered user first and got the long number?

 

 

[Stevie_T]

I have all the login stuff. Logged in yesterday and mooched around. I'll try once more from a different computer and then leave it a few hours

[lookinforinfo]

The car park photos you showed were UKPC signs. You are saying that the Court claim is from Excel. Which one is it?

[Stevie_T]

At present I'm confused. I got a ticket on my car for disabled bay parking at the UKPC managed site in Stockton. I have no recollection of such an event at Middlesbrough

[Stevie_T]

I have entered my AOS and prepared the letter CPR 31.14 request based on the template
I will print and post this evening. I have copied my letter below. I think it's OK

 

====PASTE====

 

Excel Parking Services
2 Europa Court
Sheffield Business Park
Sheffield
S9 1XE

 

13/09/2019

 

[removed - dx]

[lookinforinfo]

Given the fact that running car parks the way these crooks do is a licence to print money it is no surprise that you have collected a couple of parking tickets from different places.

 

And whilst it is a good practice to ignore all the twaddle you get sent from them, it is best to retain all their paperwork in case they take you to Court. That way we could have pointed out the discrepancies in their paperwork that would quash any of their claims in Court.

 

That being said,

did you pay for your ticket at the leisure park and how long did you actually park there as opposed to the time you parked in Stockton.

 

We need photos of

the signs in Middlesborough at the entrance,

and around the carpark including

the notice at the ticket machine.

 

After that please check with the local Council to see if planning permission was granted for the signs and cameras under the Town and Country [Advertisements] regulations [check their planning portal first on their website].

 

I know you said that you had thrown away all your PCNs from them but if you do come across any, please post them up.

[Stevie_T]

I’ve checked the Middlesbrough Car Park and I know where it is now.

 

I’ve very rarely parked there and I don’t recall ever getting a ticket.

 

 The one in Stockton is a FREE car park.

 

I believe the one in Middlesbrough is too. 

[lookinforinfo]

The Middlesborough park shares the same area  as the Frances park. I saw a ticket machine in the park which may have been in the other park. I was rather hoping that it was a paing park and you hadn't paid which would have got you out this mess. Could you please check if it is a free park and if not whether you would have paid.

[Stevie_T]

I’ll go over there tomorrow. The only time I’ve used that in the last 12 months was for a meal at Pizza Hut. I don’t recall a ticket

[Stevie_T]

I visited the car park yesterday and will attach a PDF of photos.

I do recall visiting Pizzahut once in the last year and parking to the left of the entrance (in pic).

I'm not sure if I was aware of it being a disabled bay at the time as it would have been dark or dusk.

I received no ticket.

 

The area is Free Parking serving Pizza Hut and MacDonalds directly and a few others close-by.

 

I will be sending request for letter to excel directly after posting this and will make it "signed for"

excel.pdf

[ericsbrother]

no need for signhed for, just get proof of posting.

 

Let us assume that it is this place them and that you, like huindreds of others suffered a missing screen ticket because they know that they have extra hoops to jump through when issuing a notice to driver so they just ignire the law and go straight for the NTK. Not entirely unlawful as the wording on what applies at the time is vague and as you binned everything you wont get to see their evidence until much later so we cant tell you if they have got it wrong or not.

 

However, what appears to be the death for them is that there is no term barring you from parking in a so called disabled bay so you havent breached any advertised condition. The sign also mentions other signage and that means that is sign isnt a n offer of a contract anyway but an "invitation to treat" so you can take it or leave it even if it had such a term.

 

When they submit their evidence look out for a cut and paste of a different sign so my advice would be keep your outline defence vague on this point and say that there was no breach of any contractual condition offered at the time so no cause for action against you by the claimant. they can then pay good money to find out what they have missed rather than you telling themk now and them dropping the claim leaving you with no comeback having had to waste your time and effort finding out what it was all about.

 

the other things that a paint job on the tarmac isnt the recognised sign for disabled parking and they dont truly apply to private land in E&W anyway.

[Stevie_T]

thanks.

 

The "welcome" sign at the entrance seems largely about deterring football supporters from using it.

Clearly the parking is for users of the facilities of which I was such a person.

 

Did you spot that the disabled bays and have a sign post as well as the icon on the concrete.  

 

So are you saying they cant apply disabled parking to private land parking ?

Is there somewhere I can get info on that.

 

Sorry what is E.W. ?