parking ticket was face down ****Won Appeal***

[lounick]

My son has received a local authority parking fine as his parking ticket was face down on his dashboard. 

 

When he received the second notice through the post he appealed against it and advised that as the parking ticket had no sticky part to it the ticket had obviously blown over at some point

- he sent copies of both sides of the ticket to the local authority which proved he had a valid ticket but his statement was rejected and now he must submit a formal appeal.

 

The photo evidence from the local authority shows that the ticket was clearly on display - just the wrong way up.

 

Does anyone have any advice on what to say or how to approach this in his appeal.

 

Thank you.

[Jamberson]

A short, polite explanation is always best. Be a little apologetic and importantly, include an image of both sides of the pay and display ticket. Say that you had paid the due fee and were not seeking to avoid payment.

 

I think that's your best bet - no guarantees of the outcome, but those sorts of appeals ssem to get further than things like, "I demand forthwith that you provide by return, copies of the CEO's notes and evidence that he is fully licenced under section blah... blah... blah..."

[ericsbrother]

now there are precedents regarding the failure of the sticky bit on the back that wouild help your son enormously but conversely there are plenty of leading determinations about face down tickets as well so he will have to show why  the council carries some responsibility. If the ticket has a reference number on the back as many do then they know he paid and that ther ticket is valid even if the CEO couldnt tell what time it expired.

Was it a car park on on street parking? the terms may well be considered to have a different weighting for the order they appear on the parking meter an so the arguments around paying the prescribed fee and the back of the ticket having a reference may well nullify their contractual term

[lounick]

Thanks for your replies. Much appreciated.

I did try to be nice in my original refusal to pay - pointing out that the ticket could be seen on the dashboard intheir photo but it had turned over and mentioning that the fact it had no sticky side to it my son was not totally to blame as it could have been an 'act of god' out of his control. 

The car was parked in a council run car park - I have asked him to send me a photo of the notice by the machine.. The ticket did have a number on both sides - I attach a photo of each side - is the number on both sides one they could use to identify it being a valid ticket?

Thanks again for your advice - it is really appreciated.

[Jamberson]

On 28/08/2019 at 21:08, lounick said:

When he received the second notice through the post he appealed against it

 

but his statement was rejected and now he must submit a formal appeal.

 

Please could you clarify where the appeal is up to. You said he received a "second notice" - normally he would get a PCN, not long after he parked, then four weeks later, a Notice to Owner.

 

Can you clarify whether he has already had a Notice to Owner, and whether he has appealed since then, and had that appeal rejected.

 

If so, next step is adjudication rather than writing another appeal.

 

[lounick]

Hi - Thanks for your email.

 

I have checked the letter and you are correct - we have already appealed against the Notice to Owner and this has been rejected and the letter we have now advises we pay £50 or appeal to the Parking Adjudicator online. It then mentions costs. I am not quite sure what this is or the costs involved so any advice will be greatly appreciated!

In my original appeal I highlighted how the valid ticket was on the dashboard but face down and how their was no sticker part to the sticker so my son could not securely place the ticket in his car and it was not in his power to ensure the ticket did not move whilst away from the car.

 

Many thanks,

Lisa

[Manxman in exile]

If you do appeal to the adjudicator (and I think I would) I'm not sure I'd mention anything about the ticket possibly "moving whilst away from the car".  By all means mention the lack of adhesive so he couldn't stick it to the windscreen, but why would it turn over while he was "away" from the car - did he leave the windows open?

 

I would suggest that it must have moved because of the draft caused when getting out of and opening/closing the car door.  And I might add that because the ticket has printing on both sides (don't you hate those adverts!) it's confusing and not immediately obvious when checking after closing the door that the ticket has not flipped over.  (I'm not sure how far you can say that this did happen as opposed to must have happened.  Why would your son go to the trouble of paying for a ticket and then not display it properly?)

 

I don't suppose the number on the back of the ticket is legible in any of the council photos?

[lounick]

Hi

Thanks for all your helpful advice. I will appeal to the adjudicator - if I lose do I have to pay more than the £50 fine?

 

I will use the points/advice given :

the ticket did not have a sticky part to it.

it was valid and my son was not trying to avoid paying

the ticket was clearly on the dashboard 

my son placed the ticket correctly - i will emphasise that the printing on both sides of the ticket - particularly the numbers written on the back of the ticket make it very confusing when checking through the window screen that it is not displayed the correct way up.

 

Once again thanks for all your invaluable advice and help! it is very much appreciated.

 

Thanks

Lisa

[ericsbrother]

if you appeal to the adjudicaor then you will have to pay the full penalty iof you are unsuccessful. No other costs involved.

try and keep away from mentioning draughts etc (read up on overturned tickets or tickets blown from dashboard and try and push the bit about the ticket serial number was visible, you paid the prescribed fee and provably so and that the matter should be considered "de minimis". Now go and read and photograph the igns at the meter and see where the clause about the ticket being visible is mentioned. If it is not perfectly descrinptive or is condition number 13 out of 13 points then it isnt that important in the eyes of the council anyway or it would be in big writing or point 2 i the list.

There are precedents for this so again you wil have to trawl through a load of applicable cases to find the golden nugget

[lounick]

Thanks for your advice - I have asked my son to send me photos of the signs in the car parks.

 

Thank you - it is really appreciated.

 

Lisa

[lounick]

HI

Just to let you know that I have won my appeal against this ticket!

 

A few reasons given - my son did his best to display ticket correctly. The ticket was not easy to read due to advertising on back. Ticket was not adhesive so could not be stuck to windscreen. Ticket did have number on both side which could be used to check that it was valid.  And the displayed council information did not include the words 'at all times' when stating that the ticket must be displayed correctly.

[Manxman in exile]

Well done.

[ericsbrother]

DITTO

sometimes you wonder why the council wastes money resisting such appeals. I had a similar PCN some years ago in Cranleigh and the council cancelled as soon as I told them I held the ticket and would be appealing. They asked for the serial number and that was that.

[lounick]

Thanks. Agreed - he was not trying to avoid payment and if they bothered to spend the money on adhesive tickets this wouldnt have happened. A waste of money having to go to appeal.