Coucil Tax & Rossendale Bailiff added unlawful £235 fee? **RESOLVED BYTHE COUNCIL FEE REMOVED**

[Isiris]

Query here

I received a letter from Rossendales saying that I owed 1500 and to contact them or a Enforcement Agent will call. This was was dated 12/08/2019 ut arrived on the 14th August 2019

I emailed them on 20th Aug as I wasn't in the country and my son has the same name as me and he opened the letter and told me. I emailed offered £250 per month to be cleared before the next tax year. The letter said If I did not contact them, more fees would be applied once the bailiff had visited. I did contact them via email before he attended

Today, I have received a visit where the bailiff said he had no knowledge of the email and that he had visited and the £235 would be added. 

The operator at Rossendales says that the case was allocated to the Bailiff on the 19th August 2019 but in the letter, it says it was already with the enforcement officer. It says if I do not contact them the fees will become payable once the Enforcement Agent arrives. So for me, I have contacted him. 

He called and said he wants payment in full, or over 2 months. Simply cannot be done. I reiterated my offer and he just said no, I want it in full. I know exactly why as there are 2 expensive cars on our drive which are owned both by my wife, Bill of Sale in her name and registered in her name. 

 

I am MORE than happy to pay the £250 but this EA is being a arse because he thinks he has leverage on the cars.

Advice??

[honeybee13]

Ah, right. Thank you. I've moved the thread to the Bailiffs section, people should be along later to advise.

 

HB

[Peterbard]

So when you contacted them initially with your excellent offer, did you pay anything?

 

Oh I need to say ,you must hide the cars, irrespective of who owns them within the household, they will attempt to seize them.

 

Away from the house or on someone else's property, ideally both.

[London1971]

Pointless making offers to the bailiffs, they just care about their fees for a visit. Email your local councillor explaining the situation, and that you are happy to make an affordable offer to the council starting with a payment today, if they can take the Bailiffs off your case.

 

Probably best to do as advised above, and move those cars too.

[brassnecked]

Definitely move the cars ASAP, the bailiff will come back and clamp them, don't wait bailiffs can now call on Sundays and most Bank Holidays.

[Peterbard]

I am afraid you are liable for the enforcement fee in any case. When the letter said to cont them, did it not also say to make a satisfactory payment arrangement?

Bailliffs will not accept a unilateral agreement, and without payment ?

 

[Isiris]

Thanks for all the replies. 

@dodgeball It did say such, and the offer I made WOULD have been acceptable, the lady I spoke too said that Council Tax debts they allow 6 months to pay. Its only because it has now gone to the Enforcement Agent who now wont accept anything other than full payment.

@london1971, I have emailed the head of the council, my three Councillors for my region and my MP. 

Is there a time period in law that they have to wait from first to second visit?

Regards

 

 

[Peterbard]

It really is no use, just sending an email, or leaving a voice call promising something.

 

It will not be regarded as making an agreement . The Bailiff is under no obligation to cease enforcement under such condition. In fact, if you had rung and no agreement was made he isn't either.

 

Personally, I would have paid the EA what I could off the bill and then alerted the Authority and let them know. Tell them you have made a payment in good faith etc. They may then have withdrawn the LO.

[Bailiff Advice]

I am assuming that the letter that you received was called a Notice of Enforcement. Perhaps you could confirm? The fees at that stage would have only been £75.

 

If so, under the section where it outlines how to make payment, it must also state the precise date and time by when a payment arrangement MUST BE AGREED.  What date is provided? 

 

[Isiris]

Hi 

I genuinely have not received this BUT I am not saying that it hasnt been sent as I am sure it will have been.

 

As i said, my son has the same name as me and I am sure if he had seen one of these, he will have let me know as he did when he opened the second letter. 

 

The letter send to contact them.

Maybe if they wanted people to ring them they should put telephone?

I was in India at the time so not really convenient to call them

(I can prove this to them if it became an issue)

 

[unclebulgaria67]

Start a formal complaint with the Council by writing to the Councils Head of Council Tax department. Provide all of the information and advise that if this cannot be resolved you will continue to the Local Government Ombudsman.

 

It may be that your are in the wrong here, but there is no point in you feeling unhappy and that you cannot resolve this.  The Council are still responsible for your customer services and as you are unhappy with what has happened, then    the way to register your complaint is by complaining to the Council.

 

Rossendales will just be chasing your unpaid Council Tax using a standard process. You did not come to any payment agreeement with them, as you simply sent them an email. So the fees will be due, as well as the unpaid tax. As you are not happy with the process, complain to the Council.

 

 

[brassnecked]

 Follow UncleBulgaria's advice regarding the complaintThat you were in India might be a mitigation, but might be better to arrange Direct Debit for future Council tax once current arrears cleared they will include the bailiff fees as they have visited. 

[Bailiff Advice]

A payment arrangement can be set up during what is referred to as the 'compliance stage'. That is the date provided on the Notice of Enforcement. It would appear that your son contacted you on receipt of a further letter. You mention in a further post that a telephone number should have been provided to enable you to call Rossendales. The number must by law be provided on the Notice of Enforcement and I would be very surprised indeed if the number was not displayed on the 2nd letter as well. 

 

Were you aware that the council had obtained a Liability Order against you?

Did you contact the council on receipt of the notification to set up a payment arrangement?

[Isiris]

Hi and again thank for your reply

I work abroad alot in my job. When I get home and if my son hasnt opened it, there will be a pile of mail for me to read.

I do not recall seeing anything about the LO BUT that is not to say it hasnt been sent.

It will probably have got misplaced at home.

I emailed Rossendales to set up a payment arrangement as I was in India and it would have cost more than the amount to call

Re the Telephone number: " Maybe if they wanted people to ring them they should put telephone? "

What I meant by this was that if they wanted the method of contact to be solely by telephone and no other means, then put this

[Peterbard]

 I answered this in my last post but to enlarge. Bailiffs are not bound to accept an offer, and their boss, would be very unhappy that an offer was accepted which was nothing more than a promise on an email.

 

He would consider that there has been many broken promises, before the debt was sent to the EA.

• With bailiffs, the payment of money is the best indication of good  intent.

 

 

.

[Isiris]

Had email from council confirming that the £235 has been removed from my account and that the £250 per month was acceptable. 

[London1971]

Nice one, the power of emailing your local councillors.  None of them think the use if Bailiffs is fair, because punishing people who can't afford the council tax with more fees is making the poor, poorer.

[brassnecked]

Well done, good result whatever you do don't default on the agreement.

[Peterbard]

Yes Excellent.

 

London

In the period 2016-2017 out of 2.3 million CT debts, 1.4million were sent to Bailiffs for enforcement.

Although I have seen no official figures, the current situation is even worse, with an increased of 20% being mooted in some reports. 

 

Bailiffs work, there is no doubt.      Ethically ?? That is another question

 

 

Edited August 31, 2019 by Dodgeball
spelling error

[brassnecked]

Problem is the Enforcement industry attracts many individuals of a thuggish nature, not all are bad,, but Enforcement belongs in history.

[Peterbard]

Yes absolutely right,

 

and lets not pussyfoot around , a greater part of their success depends on physical intimidation. This. I agree is unacceptable.

[Peterbard]

But you have to ask yourself, if you are a reasonable person. If not Bailiffs, what else?

 

Debt is not criminal, so no chance of prison (generally). So what is the bogey-man which will convince the most entrenched debt avoider to pay?

Edited August 31, 2019 by Dodgeball

[brassnecked]

Problem is there are more Can't Pays due to Welfare Reform and Universal Credit increasing in number. there is a big difference between them and Won't pays.

[London1971]

Councils are also desperate. All this talk of pre election flagship spending, It doesn't sound like councils will be on the receiving end of any of it.