Previous Owner Log Book Loan: Bill Of Sale could be invalid?

[Tom00]

Hello all.

I unfortunately and stupidly purchased a car that has an outstanding log book loan on it.

The loan company are threatening to take the car away unless i can settle the amount they have requested.

I have sent many emails asking for proof of ownership on their part

they finally agreed to send me a redacted copy of the bill of sale.

 

The odd thing is that the reference number and high court stamp are on a completely separate page and are different to the supposed reference number and registry date.

 

Does the stamp and reference number have to legally be on the page of the bill of sale?

If it is not as in this case then will the bill of sale be invalid?

 

Please see the attached, it looks like they have added the stamp page to try and fool me...

Any help that can be provided to understand this would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you.

 

240229 bos.pdf

[Ethel Street]

Could it be that the stamp and reference number on the original Bill are on the back of it, not on a separate page?

[dx100uk]

bet it not registered.

 

page 2 is a photo copy

page 1 is not.dodgy!!

 

moved to the LBL forum.

 

use our guide

 

 

[Tom00]

1 hour ago, Ethel Street said:

Could it be that the stamp and reference number on the original Bill are on the back of it, not on a separate page?

Thanks Ethel, that could be the case yes. Even if it was on the back am I right in thinking the date of the stamp is well off the date on the bill regardless of which format its in? 

27 minutes ago, dx100uk said:

bet it not registered.

 

page 2 is a photo copy

page 1 is not.dodgy!!

 

moved to the LBL forum.

 

use our guide

 

 

 

Thank you for moving it to the right section. Am glad I found the site, seems to be a lot of useful information! 

[Ethel Street]

20 minutes ago, Tom00 said:

Even if it was on the back am I right in thinking the date of the stamp is well off the date on the bill regardless of which format its in? 

 

 

 

Good question, the Bill appears to have been made on 6th November 2018 but the stamp on the back is 4 months earlier, 11 July 2018. I don't know enough about these to comment further, sorry. Maybe just go back to them and ask them to explain the discrepancy? Ask them also to confirm that the stamp appears on the same document as page 1 of their pdf?

 

dx100's link tells you how to check if it is registered.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Ethel Street

[Tom00]

I have heard back from the log book loan company, they have now provided a new pdf of the bill of sale which now has a completely new bill of sale number and a high court stamp that is now dated only a few days after the bill of sale (see attached). 

 

My concern is they have just taken a number from another bill of sale where the date of registry is acceptable.

 

I have been in contact with the Queens Bench Enforcement and they have suggested that if i pay the £50 search fee they will just confirm that a bill of sale exists for the vehicle, they will not provide me with the bill of sale number and the date it was registered. I hope this is not true.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

240229 (LN56 PBZ) Stamped BOS.pdf

[dx100uk]

now you have it

email it to them

they will check its registered for free AFAIK

they don't need to search for it

did you not do that with the one you already got?

 

dx

 

[Tom00]

Sadly the high court will only check if a bill of sale is registered with them and will not supply any additional details such as the registration date.

 

And to top it off they charge £50 just to do that!

 

They wouldn't care if the bill of sale was legitimately registered in time or not by the looks of things.

 

Even if it is registered, which it probably is, i get the feeling it wasn't done within the 7 days required.

The loan company are saying the initial mistake was human error but having scanned thousands of two sided documents myself i cant see how a number/stamp from a separate document can end up being created within that PDF, the only way that can happen is if someone manually splices it on purpose.

 

The loan company still don't understand my reluctance to give them money without concrete proof that they own the car, they haven't even provided me details of where the amount required for me to buy the car off of them came from, it could just be made up for all i know

 

[ericsbrother]

now here is a rhetorical question- if the log book loan co were pulling a fast one then they wont be willing to go to court to get their car back because the truth will out.Would you be willing to risk that possibility? If so call their bluff

[Tom00]

Funny you should say that.

I have suffered enough sleepless nights over this already so i have gone directly to their complaints department and requested this whole thing gets dropped before i take it to the next level.

 

Even if they do have a valid bill of sale the process of dealing with myself as a victim is wholly inadequate, especially as they don't seem to be able to provide anything legally saying they own the car or the outstanding balance without breaking their data protection rules.

[dx100uk]

so what transpired?

 

[Tom00]

As expected i was completely ignored by their complaints department as i am not classed as a 'customer', they failed to follow the CCTA guidelines that they are signed up to

 

i contacted the CCTA directly to see if they can help.

The CCTA have been very understanding and contacted Greenlight (Varooma) on my behalf to share my complaint which they have previously ignored.

 

I have been sent a response from Varooma now that the CCTA have been in touch with them, at present though i am waiting for the CCTA's response as they said they expected to hear from Varooma directly and would then get their lawyer to look over that response.

[dx100uk]

 

[dx100uk]

The correct process is to file the bill with the Filing Department, Royal Courts of Justice, Strand.

 

The lender’s copy of the bill will then have a Supreme Court Stamp, and the bill will be entered on the Register at the RCJ. 

 

…………..

 

that bill of sale is invalid

the stamp is on a sep sheet

the BOS has no stamp.

 

 

[Tom00]

Thanks. If the stamp is on the back of the bi's is that valid? I can't confirm that it is or isn't as they won't say but unless they can prove it is to somebody then I would think it's invalid. 

[dx100uk]

ill have a nose later

but from memory

all the one's here already have the stamp in the document itself.

something is strange here.