PE PCN Letter Of Claim - entering retail car park without permission' - London Southend Airport

[WoodDD]

Oh dear, got another PCN from Parking Eye Ltd, who claimed I have entered their retail permit holder only car park inside the airport at about 4 minutes when I tried to google the drop off points of the airport.

 

I did enter when I am looking for the temporary parking (before I asked the onsite traffic warden).

 

After recent visit of London Southend Airport (my first time being there). I got a PCN from Parking Eye Ltd, who claimed I had entered their retail permit holder only car park inside the airport at about 4 minutes. As I could not find the temporary parking space to pick up my family, I did enter one of the retail car park to google the drop off points of the airport.

 

Here is the sticky:

 

or PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]

 

please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement .     8 / 08 / 2019

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] .    13 / 08 / 2019

 

3 Date received .  18 / 08 / 2019

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]   Yes

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?  Yes

 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] .   Yes

 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up .   Just automatic response saying a reply will be in 28 days

 

7 Who is the parking company?    ParkingEy e

 

What should I do? Ignore them until receiving the letter of claim from them? Please advise.

 

Thanks a lot in advance!

[honeybee13]

Have I misunderstood something? I think I read that both your PCNs are for 8th August this year?

[WoodDD]

Hello Honeyee13, They are from the same day in 10 minutes apart  . what a joke!

 

One is for stopping at the no stop zone for 10 seconds (by asking the traffic warden where the drop off place); this one is for entering the retail car parking without permission before I saw the traffic warden to google the temporary drop off points. 

[honeybee13]

Thank you for the clarification. You do need two threads then, although this is a bit crazy.

 

I expect people will be along to advise later and in the meantime I'll alter your thread title to show there are two tickets.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

can we have the NTK up to one pdf please bothsides

read upload

[Mrs O'Frog]

PLEASE - if you get any more STOP appealing

[lookinforinfo]

Especially that one.

[WoodDD]

sure, here it is:

 

 

parkingeye2.pdf

 

With better image.

 

 

@lookinforinfo, The POFA is here:

 

[lookinforinfo]

Is that it all? No reason given for the ticket, no mention of POFA, no mention of keeper liability? Stayed for 6 minutes -are they serious?

[ericsbrother]

Now I might be tempted to respond to this one but as they feign ignorance on what is and isnt an offer to park it is 50/50 as to whether you will be successful.

 

What yu should do is read the BPA's code of conduct very carefully and them make a complaint to the BPA itself about their largest benefactor ignoring the rules on the grace period (and thus breaching their KADOE agreement because they dont have a reasonable cause for obtaining your keeper details).

 

the fly in the ointment is their submission will be that you were prohibited form parking but that means there was no breach of contract as they can only pursue a parking contract condition or breach therof.

 

You will spank them at court but the BPA/POPLA will try and rubbish your submission because their client wil lose a lot of money if they stick to the rules and that is what it is all about.

[WoodDD]

Hi all,

 

Just got a reply from ParkingEye with expected result: unsuccessful. The reply is attached below. 

 

Advice please, should I ignore the reply?

 

Thank you very much in advance.

 

-------------------------------------------

 

Dear Sir / Madam,
Thank you for your correspondence in relation to the Parking Charge incurred on 08 August 2019 at 16:42, at Airport Retail Park Service Yard car park.

We are writing to advise you that your recent appeal has been unsuccessful and that you have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure.

 

This is because you have not provided sufficient evidence to show that you did not break the terms and conditions on the signage.

 

We are fully compliant with British Parking Association regulations on signage, and confirm that there is adequate signage at this site that is visible, appropriately located, clear and legible.

 

Please be advised:
 There is an independent appeals service (POPLA) which is available to motorists who have had an appeal rejected by a British Parking Association Approved Operator. Contact information and further information can be found enclosed. See also www.popla.co.uk

 As a gesture of goodwill, we have extended the discount period for a further 14 days from the date of this correspondence. If you appeal to POPLA and your appeal is unsuccessful you will not be able to pay the discounted amount in settlement of the Parking Charge, you will be liable to pay the full amount.

 

If you have already paid the reduced amount, the Parking Charge will be increased to the full amount and you will be liable to pay this increase.

 By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services (www.ombudsman-services.org/) provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal.

 

However, we have not chosen to  participate in their alternative dispute resolution service.

 

As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.

A payment can be made by telephoning our offices on 0330 555 4444 or by visiting www.parkingeye.co.uk or by posting a cheque or postal order to ParkingEye Ltd, PO Box 117, Blyth, NE24 9EJ.

Yours faithfully,
ParkingEye Team

[ericsbrother]

so they ignore the meat of the appeal and just say their signs are correct. Well, so what, that is not what the appeal was about and totally irrelevant.

 

If you drove through a red light a defence of "my car has an MOT and insurance so i am legally entitled to be on the road" wont cut it.

however, this is about money so they were never likely to agree with you.

 

As you have appealed it would be wise to go through the motions and appeal to POPLA but before you do you need images of the signage to pick holes in re the contract actually offered and also find the BPA code of practice,

 

read the BEAVIS decision where it mentions time needed to park up and read signs etc ( cribbed fro earlier persuasive cases) and quote that to POPLA to point out that they havent followed the rules so no contract or breach exists

 

That will cost them £27 regardless of what POPLA says and they may well not defend if it looks like they might lose and create publicity regarding this particular money spinning spot

[WoodDD]

Thank you ericsbrother.

 

As advised, I'm going to appeal to POPLA. I'll draft the appeal and post here. It'd be appreciated if you can check my appeal in due course.

 

Thanks a lot!

 

Here is the sign of the gate I found on internet. Is anything I can dispute against it? 

 

[ericsbrother]

so not an offer of a parking contract anyway but PE are too greedy to care and outside POPLA's remit so dont expect miracles.

 

It is still worth having a go just to get written evidence that POPLA dont even enforce the BPA CoP let alone the law. Wont cost you anything and wont damage your defence if they eventually make a claim.

 

The opposite is true, they will look silly pursuing something they know has no legs and breaks the CoP they signed up to. That makes a difference when it comes to getting your costs back

[WoodDD]

Thank you @ericsbrother

 

By adopting the template here, I have drafted the following appealing letter attached.

 

Any advice would highly appreciated and thanks in advance!

 

 

 

 

Here is the appeal letter with more dispute points

 

 

POPLA Appeal draft.pdf

[ericsbrother]

I would drop points 4 and 5. Reason being you dont want them to know what else you know, stick to the breach of the rules they signed up to and if you dont win you can use that to embarrass them later if necessary.

 

there are loads of other popints you could raise but they wont be considered and it will give PE a sense of security because they will then be forewarned of what you are likely to say if they do sue you. Show as little as possible at this stage other then the breach of the BPA rules

[WoodDD]

Thanks a lot @ericsbrother!

 

Here is the modified version as advised.

 

Any advice and suggestion are welcome.

 

Thanks again!

POPLA Appeal modified.pdf

[ericsbrother]

I think that if they decide in your favour it will be on point 1 only becasue they wont want to tie their biggest payer with conditions that would prevent them from making money, even if dishonestly.

 

It wont hurt though and will be interesting to see what they say about the other points if they dont agree with the first one.

Nothing you have said can harm any defence in court if it ends up going further

[WoodDD]

Thank you very much @ericsbrother!

 

Please advise if there is any further correction / changes before I submit my appeal.

 

Will keep the forum updated on my progress.

 

Thanks a lot!

[WoodDD]

Hello all,

 

With regard to POPLA appeal, which option should I select on page 'Why are you appealing your parking charge?'

 

The options are:

1. My vehicle was stolen

2. I was not improperly parked

3. The amount requested on the parking charge notice is not correct.

4. I was not the driver or the registered keeper of the vehicle at the time of the alleged improper parking.

5. Other grounds for appeal (Appeals based solely on the following grounds for appeal are less likely to be successful)

 

I am not sure about option 2 or 5.

 

Thanks for advice.

 

[ericsbrother]

then option 2.

Your argument is you werent parked as the parking event only starts after the grace period.

I would also quote the BPA code in your assertion to force them to state why it doesnt apply if you havnet used it word for word

[WoodDD]

Thank you @ericsbrother

 

Should I put my point 1 into a separate (primal) ground to appeal and the rest as 'extra information'?

 

Thanks as always!

[ericsbrother]

doesnt matter as long as you hammer home the point about breach of the CoP/grace period.

 

Plenty more to stuff them with if you lose the POPLA appeal and by making this point it may lead them down a dead end as far as arguing that they followed the procedures when they didnt even ifPOPLA decide that you dotn have to obey the rules of the club you join. maybe they will use parliament as a precedent

[WoodDD]

Lol. Thank you @ericsbrother.

 

Will keep the forum updated with my progress.

[WoodDD]

Hello All,

 

Today I received an email from POPLA asking me to provide comments on the operator evidence.

The operator evidence is attached below. 

 

What comments should I provide?

Any help would be really appreciated.

 

Thank you very much!

 

Obviously PE did not mention 10 minutes grace period at all.

The alleged parking period was only 6 minutes 21 seconds.

 

what about?

 

Any comment would be really appreciate.