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yups

Overcharged by revenue officer at station

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Thank you Bazza, I thought I'd mention it just in case.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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This will be perhaps a stupid question but I'm going to ask anyway...

 

OP goes to departure station but ticket office closed so has to purchase(?) a permit to travel.

 

OP does not see a conductor on the train ,so can't buy ticket.

 

OP reaches destination and has to purchase peak return ticket at gate.

 

OP checks at main ticket office and discovers they've been overcharged at the gate. (Should have been off-peak but OP had not been asked at the gate and OP did not volunteer travel times).

 

OP returns to gate staff to ask for refund.  OP was going to get a refund but all goes pear shaped when they consider a refund not good enough.

 

Now for the stupid question: if the main ticket office staff knew the OP had been overcharged, why couldn't they process a refund there and then, rather than sending the OP back to the gate?  It's just that being advised to go back to the people who've already overcharged you sounds not quite right to me.  Surely ticketing mechanisms are sufficiently sophisticated that you don't have to go back to the point of sale to get a refund?  (I'm being unbelievably naïve, aren't I?)

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You're right, the system would allow the refund to be processed from a different terminal.

However,  ticket office staff don't get involved with revenue "disputes" that's why the op was sent back to see the inspector at the barrier. 

Sometimes inspector sell a peak ticket to fare evaders instead of issuing a penalty fare as a less harsh punishment; the ticket office couldn't know if this was the case.

There are many other scenarios. 

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Penalty fares and sale of tickets are used where passengers aren’t felt to have fare evaded (rather than being a ‘less harsh punishment” for fare evasion).

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In the real world a penalty fare and a ticket sale (fare) are used at inspector discretion to avoid reporting fare evaders.

Of course, non fare evaders, people who make genuine mistakes, get the same.

That's not defined mark, even though theoretically all fare evaders should be reported as such.

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Why I went back:

 

Eventually, after being detained too long against my will. I paid the higher fare due to threats of a fine and in effort to gain my right to freedom: I then went through the turn-styles and on my visit to the booking/box office(aka: the main ticket booth on the way out) The man said I had to go back to the turn-styles to get my refund as he said it was a different system.

 

I asked him to come with me. He said he could not, i asked him to hold my hand. (English term of phrase). I did not want him to actually hold my hand.   He understood that and refused as he was on shift. 

 

That is why I had to go back.


I made an account here to seek help for me and other passengers. The site admin of this forum constantly tried to pass blame onto me. for many days. I cant explain how stressful this has been after the stress of the incident.

 

Can you please help me?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The revenue protection officer worked for a train operating company.  If you know which Train company it is, go to their website and look for their complaints process.  Then submit the complaint with full details and copies of the tickets. 

 

 

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I'm not sure what help you need.  Also I don't think anyone is blaming you - they're simply asking for more information and clarity from you in order to try to assist.  (Difficult for you if English is not your first language).

 

As I understand it, the staff at the gate did offer you a refund but because you were not entirely satisfied with their attitude there was an "exchange of views" and you got escorted off the station without the refund.  Correct?

 

I'd simply write to the TOC's customer service people and ask for a refund.  Explain everything simply and in chronological order including what type of ticket you did or did not buy (you could perhaps use my post #27 as an outline but leave out my question about why the ticket office could not refund you).  I don't know what you say about being escorted off the station - perhaps that there was confusion because English is not your first language and the gate staff must have believed you were being too confrontational?  I don't know...

 

I would not complain about the gate staff and I would not raise the issue of how many other people this may happen to.

 

Just concentrate on getting the refund

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said this within the 1st 5 posts but....

 

cant see how the time you bought the permit

and 

the time your arrived at the barrier where this all occurs has to be such a big secret??

 

we are now 34 posts in 3 days later 

and still you wont tell us??

 

is it because this was all within the peak period time which sort of blows most of your beef out the water I wonder??

it makes no odds to us, but you DID come here for help...…….

 

hiding parts of your story doesn't help you and makes people doubt your whole story...

you are entitled to a refund, yes.

 

 


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Hello as mentioned.

 

I cannot give time stamps, costs, dates or location info, not until I make my moves. in effort to maintain 'some ' element of surprise.

 

I am not hiding this for any immoral reason. I am simply being cautious regards my complaint.

 

dx100uk states " it makes no odds to us,....."

 

Who is "us"?   Are you speaking on behalf of these other people?

 

if it makes no odds? Well.....lets move on then.. lets get productive for other people, if not me.

 

Code of conduct states, to the effect, the staff are supposed to enquire about the travellers journey and give the traveller all the info they need to achieve the correct ticket without use of  jargon such as "peak" and "off peak" , even words such as "adult" or "child", they must not be used. Therefore they must enquire of actual journey times, destination and age. So there is no confusion on which ticket can be purchased. Ticket options must be given.

 

On arrival to my home town, once travellers state their return to station (first thing a traveller will state) then they are asked nothing at all, except to hand over x amount of money (peak fare). The ticket retailer has to know the return too station location, at least, to allow them to force Peak fare. That is the only thing they want to know, the return location is the only thing they need and the money handing over, nothing else!

 

Sounds like I am suggesting a [problem], does it not?  but why? if the retailer does not directly pocket the money? it is impossible, as it is all documented via the ticket. They could claim they handed the permit refund over and pocket it, but that has not happened to my knowledge.

 

However, It is Peak Fare and final answer, no backing down! With threats of fines if the traveller refuses to pay over 50% more!  If they pay they are not threatened with fines.

 

Also If the traveller is lucky enough to have the booking office perspective brought into play, Yes they may do better and be offered a refund.

 

lets try and establish what needs to be said regards the complaint

 

There are other people reading waiting for advice too. possibly reading this in the future.

so if you dont want to help me, lets help them...

 

Just try, if you may, to assume what I am saying is factual.

 

Personally,  I do not feel I will be treated well in their complaint system and they will not stop just because of my compliant. But if that is one avenue, yes, I shall take that and other routes also.

 

I do have an appointment to meet a manger soon in person.

 

So come on people  help me out, what should I request or put to them?

 

what would you say?

 

no.1 : I want absolute assurance this will not happen to anyone, not just at my station but across the UK!!

 

How can i achieve this? it seems a tricky task.

 

Any experts reading? Anyone read the terms conditions yet?

 

The site admin dx100uk said there would be experts?  Was this a serious statement?

 

Also yes I do know I am entitled to a refund.  I knew that from the first moment they asked for 50% more. That is the least we should all expect, right.

 

Is it too much to ask... to want them to stop?

 

Do I sound too demanding in requesting these people stop breaking the law and hurting people?

 

How will complaining to the company stop this?

 

Thank you for your help and suggestions.

 

p.s sorry no time to spell check this, or grammar check.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, yups said:

On arrival to my home town, once travellers state their return to station (first thing a traveller will state) then they are asked nothing at all, except to hand over x amount of money (peak fare). The ticket retailer has to know the return too station location, at least, to allow them to force Peak fare. That is the only thing they want to know, the return location is the only thing they need and the money handing over, nothing else!

 

 

I would expect revenue officers are quite aware of the time of day they are manning barriers.

i'd also go as far as to say they don't bother to do this in off peak times...

as there would be little point, no loss of revenue to protect.

 

they man the barriers at peak times, when

  • people have purchased their permit to travel at a peak time
  • travelled at a peak time
  • arrived at their destination at a peak time.

 

thus they prevent: [loss of revenue]

  • the traveller simply paying for an off peak fare when they just travelled in peak time [and most probably are a worker]
  • getting an off peak return when they are travelling back home in peak time [worker returning home]

 

 

in other words ..fare dodgers.

 

your intended return was off-peak, but you didn't tell them..

we'll never know when your permit to travel was purchased nor if you travelled in peak time....but as from about post 5 i'll hedge my bets..

 

yes you are entitled as others may well be, to a refund because you were returning off peak

but if you don't tell 'em…….

 

as for our experts , its either they are on holiday, which is none of our business

or

they sussed you out a longtime ago and don't want an argument here that they have 1000's of times in their regular work....

 

anyway 

I've said all this from the start

this thread is getting boring and repetitive.

 

dx ...

 

 


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Posted (edited)

you stated :

 

"I would expect revenue officers are quite aware of the time of day they are manning barriers.

i'd also go as far as to say they don't bother to do this in off peak times...

as there would be little point, no loss of revenue to protect".

 

 

They were there when I should have had an off peak option, they did not give it me!!

I asked for the lower fare. they refused!! And threatened a fine!! ( i did not know the jargon , that is true)  but "lower fare option "  should be o.k for them to understand.

 

When I say, to the effect, that there was a lower fare option listed on your computer before I left the station  Please can I have that as this higher fare seems far too much. Is there another option?

 

No.   I had full fare or a hefty fine options only.

 

you stated:

 

"your intended return was off-peak, but you didn't tell them.."

 

I asked for the lower fare, they refused. repeatedly.

They had the option to charge the low fare but absolutely refused and threaten a fine.

 

I do not have to know any jargon.  I just said it was too much and there was a lower option before i departed and  why can't I have that? They said no and that I had to pay the high fare.

 

Which is untrue. They should have said that was o.k and gave any restrictions on the ticket!

 

you stated

"this thread is getting boring and repetitive. "

 

You could help me and the many others  who may read this) who would like advice and offer suggestions of things to ask or mention with the complaint.

 

What would you say? How can I stop this from happening to others?

 

I have been told I was right by the staff at the station. So I know I am in the right.

 

Please can you be a bit more friendly and helpful?  Come on, lets try and do some good here.

 

I was hoping people might suggest some ideas.

 

Perhaps we can move onto the questions I should ask or things I should state regards my complaint. with time running out?  If not for me,  for other travellers, who will be going through this same ordeal if we do not help them.

 

kind regards.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by yups

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hi

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

nice link . thank you very much.

 

I know I will get my refund. it has been offered. I have been told I am right about the situation.

It does seem like this is in debate but this was clarified a long time ago.

 

Do you think I would be wasting my time to try and stop it happening to others?

 

I just would not want this happing to anyone else.

 

Thank you again

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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we get where you are coming from, you are entitled to the refund, you were returning off peak....but, revenue protection would not be there to screen travellers during off peak times as its utterly pointless in most scenarios.

 

why screen off peak travellers in off peak time? they are not losing any peak time ticket revenue?? pointless.

 

unless they see from data that a pertis machine has had unusually high usage that morning I cant see the point.

 

I don't think this issue is as widespread as you perceive , looking at available data there less than 100 pertis machines left across the whole uk...

 

 

 

 


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The advice is: make a complaint and get a refund.

Then make another complaint about the inspectors attitude if you want, but changing the world is something that it's not going to happen, surely not for an excess fare.

Inspectors are given discretion and unfortunately some of them take this as a sign of power over other people.

It's impossible to sack all people who have a little position of power and employ more, hence the complaint system. 

That's life and as .much as everyone of us want to improve it, it's an impossible task, so don't waste your time and brain on it.

Just accept that there are things you can't change. 

Get your refund, get your apology, then move on.

That's my advice.

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On side note: I have notice that many people without the skills to argue their point, accuse others of being rude, racist, sexist, homophobic etc.

I.E. Excuse me, i don't have a receipt for this refund, but i have my bank statement,  can i get a refund?

-No, no receipt no refund

- But your policy and the law says "proof of purchase" not "receipt "

- You're rude/racist/homophobic, you must leave now or i call security. 

 

I see this happening day in day out.

Even kids do it, they're very quick at gaining a crowd's attention by shouting "racist/homophobic" so they can feel they've won the argument. 

Sad.

 

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