Idem PAP LOC now claimform - 1995 MBNA Card debt ***Claim Dismissed***

[Neeta]

Hello again.

 

As you will have seen above, my recent query early this year was in relation to 2 CC debts previously sold off to DCAs and subsequently transferred to another DCA.

 

SInce I sent the CCA requests I received one letter saying they didn't have it and realised this meant they couldn't enforce the debt but would continue to contact me - which they have, asking for income & expenses etc etc which I have ignored.

 

The other they sent me a copy of the application form with terms and conditions which DX advised wasn't a copy of the CCA and I should ignore.

 

Following that I have received several letters firstly saying they would be referring the account the ResolveCall who may visit me at home, to my knowledge they haven't.

 

Further to that I then received a letter stating they were in the process of referring the account to their Litigation Dept. included was a form to complete with tick boxes, I owe the debt, I owe part of the debt, I dispute the debt, I don't know etc which I ignored (I was given 30 days to reply) I have now received a further letter telling me if I don't reply it will be sent to the Litigation Dept.

 

Any idea what happens next ?

If they take me to court what is my argument ?

I've tried to research on this forum but haven't come across anything that quite covers this type of letter.

 

I expect this is usual procedure but I'm not sure if the intent is to scare me into submission or if they feel they have a serious claim that they can take me to court for.

[AndyOrch]

You must respond to the Pre Action protocol Forms....but use ours not theirs.

 

Andy

[Neeta]

Thank you Andy,  I have read through the thread just a couple of questions.

 

I have already sent a CCA request to the DCA and they provided me with the T&C and application form, is this therefore my 'reason to dispute this debt' ?

 

The thread suggests I return the form to the solicitors that sent me the PAP - the letters are still coming from the DCA - IDEM Servicing. Does this make a difference? Should I just return the form to them?

 

Thanks for your help

[dx100uk]

scan up what they sent back as a CCA return to one multipage PDF please

read upload

 

PAP form reply goes to who sent the pack

but not yet no rush

 

get all your docs up 1st please

 

 

[Neeta]

Thanks - this is what they sent

 

 

IDEM_CCA_Response.pdf

[dx100uk]

date you signed please?

 

that's an application form devoid of most of the required prescribed terms.

and the T&C's which do not appear to even have your details which they must

could of come from anywhere inc this site or their filling cabinet!!

 

dx

 

[Neeta]

It was signed in July 1995

[dx100uk]

ive split this off to its own thread now

please post here with anything relating to this 1995 MBNA card debt.

 

they'll never get a compliant CCA for a 1995 card.

hence why the return is incomplete and a cut n paste jobbie

 

follow post 2 of andy's link above

because .. previous incomplete/unenforceable CCA return

 

don't forget use out reply form ONLY.

 

 

[Neeta]

Thank you

[Neeta]

I used your reply form and sent it to them stating I disputed due to previous incomplete/unenforceable CCA and also asked for Default letter, notice of assignment etc as per advice.

 

I received the Notice of Assignment, account statement and default notice and today received another letter stating pretty much 'we sent you what you asked for but you haven't replied...14 days to respond or litigation action will commence'

 

They seem to have ignored the 'I dispute I owe the amount' part due to lack of CCA? Or do I need to respond now to say I still dispute due to lack of proper enforceable documents (CCA)

 

Thank you

[dx100uk]

bet it doesn't say WILL anything?

 

dx

 

[Neeta]

ok - Please note, should we not hear from you within the following 14 days of this letter, litigation action shall commence.

[AndyOrch]

Let them litigate.....hope they can comply with your CCA request by the time any hearing date comes around.

[dx100uk]

well if they want to goto court with that cut n paste cca that's their call

nothing you can do to prevent that.

 

typical idem sadly...bullies all the way...

doesn't mean they will

 

[Neeta]

We have now received a claim form  with forms N9A and N9B attached for response.

Do I follow this thread and provide all the information in a new post now to get further advice from you on how to complete the form(s)?

 

TIA

[dx100uk]

you don't use the paperforms

get that link done and we'll guide you,

 

[AndyOrch]

Thread moved to Financial Legal Issues Forum in view of the court claim.

 

Please read the following link and the  copy and paste the Q,s and your responses back here for further advice.

 

 

 

Andy

[Neeta]

I have completed answers as noted above.

 

Name of the Claimant ?  IDEM Capital Securities Limited

Date of issue – 12 Nov 2019

 

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?

a)      A credit card agreement made between MBNA Europe Bank Limited and the cardholder

 

b)     Claimant purchased the balance on the account on xx/2016

 

c)      Cardholder accrued balance £5500

 

d)     Cardholder defaulted on payments

 

e)      Claimant issued formal demand requesting payment on xx/2019

 

f)       Amount now due £ 5500

 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC ( Pre Action Protocol) ?  Yes

 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No

 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a

 

What is the total value of the claim? £6000 (now including fees)

 

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account?  Credit Card

 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? By post

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? July 1995

 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/ Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim.  Debt Purchaser

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?  Yes

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor?  Yes -though I am unable to find a copy

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ?  Unsure

 

Why did you cease payments? Advised to as there was no enforceable CCA

 

What was the date of your last payment? Feb 2019

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved?  Unsure

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? 

 

Originally informed MBNA that we were in difficulty and arranged a payment plan with them,

they later sold the debt to Britannia Sarl (?) and we continued with the same payments, this was then sold to Moorcroft and we again continued the same payments.

 

At some point later we contacted Moorcroft to advise our circumstances had changed and we offered a lower payment.  

We were asked for income and expenses which we didn’t provide as we had contacted a debt help organisation who helped us work out what we could afford,

 

however we did receive a letter on another debt at the same time accepting a lower payment (the circumstances were exactly the same – MBNA debt, sold to Britannia, sold onto Moorcroft)

We continued with the lower payments.

 

 In the last year we discovered that all our other debts were no longer showing on our credit files but this one was showing as continual defaults month on month.

 

We contacted IDEM to ask why and they said the previous DCA hadn’t agreed to the lower payment and therefore we were continuing to default.

 

At this point I sought advice from CAG and they advised me to ask for the CCA.

I received a photocopy of the original application form and a page of Terms and Conditions that I was advised by CAG were not a CCA and I should stop paying.

 

I further received a pre-action protocol which I completed and returned and in response I received a notice of assignment, account statement and default notice  as I had requested, but they ignored the fact that I said they had provided an unenforceable CCA.

 

[dx100uk]

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
[if mcol is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time]
.
 register as an individual
 note the long gateway number given
 then log in
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
 click thru to the end
 confirm and exit MCOL.
.
 get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]
..

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/
..
type your name ONLY

no need to sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

 

………………..

 

Moorcroft don't buy debts

just chase for their stated client.
 

 

[Neeta]

Thank you for your help, just to clarify please. In the CPR 31:14  request do I just ask for 1. the agreement .....etc and delete the the items 2. to 6. as listed since these have already been sent to me by the claimant (btw the 'solicitor' is IDEM's litigation dept) or do I ask for all the documents again as they are part of the 'Particulars of the Claim' 

 

Thank you again

[dx100uk]

if you are happy you have everything bar the agreement sure.

 

 

[Neeta]

Hello again and thanks again for your help so far with this.

 

I did as noted above and got the CPR 31:14 sent off and responded on the moneyclaim website that I would be defending the claim. It took me a bit of time as we had a bereavement and I couldn't give any time to this but I did get the response in within the 19 days.

 

As I understand it I now have 33 days from the date of issue to submit the defence which was 12/11 so I believe the 33 day mark is 14th Dec , I'm off work for a couple of days so will dedicate some time to that now if I could get some pointers please.

I've had a look on other similar cases but I'm still at a bit of a loss as to how to proceed.

 

Main points are I don't have a  CCA only an application form and generic T&Cs.

 

I have been sent a copy of the Notice of Assignment and a copy of the Default Notice in response to the PAPDC.

 

The original payment plan was with MBNA, after it had been 'sold on' I continued payments and after a change in circumstances I requested lower payments which were denied, however I did continue paying the lower amounts and had defaults recorded with the credit reference agency.

 

Any help would be very much appreciated on the next step.

 

[dx100uk]

13th by 4pm.

 

plenty of variants of our std holding/ no paperwork defence in most claimform threads in this forum and the legal successes one off it.

 

point to the CCA as being lacking in the required prescribed terms etc under the CCA. or words to that effect.

 

[Neeta]

Thanks DX

[Neeta]

I have written this for the defence. Could you please review and give me some feedback.

I have added some notes where I am unsure

Thanks in advance.

 

1)    A credit card agreement made between MBNA Europe Bank Limited and the cardholder

2)    Claimant purchased the balance on the account on xx/2016

3)    Cardholder accrued balance £5700

4)    Cardholder defaulted on payments

5)    Claimant issued formal demand requesting payment on xx/2019

6)    Amount now due £ 5700

 

===================== DEFENCE ==============================

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim vague and are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

1.Paragraph 1 is noted; I have in the past had financial dealings with MBNA on or about 1995. I am unaware of the alleged agreement the Claimant refers to having failed to adequately particularise its claim and have therefore sought clarity from the Claimant by way of a Section 78 request and a CPR 31.14 request. 

 

 

Am I correct to assume I don't need to put anything in where they have sent documents?

Para 2 they sent me a copy of the notice of assignment

Para 3 they sent me a statement of account

 

2. Paragraph 4 is denied. I am unaware of any service of a Default Notice (s) pursuant to section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 by the original creditor MBNA. I have sought verification from the claimant regarding this matter and they have been unable to comply. (They did send me a default notice but it was recent and not one from the original creditor - who I had defaulted with prior to the payment plan I put in place with them)

 

4. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of breach requested by CPR 31. 14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and

(b) show and evidence any cause of action and service of a Default Notice or termination notice; and

(c) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

5. After receiving this claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a section 78 request, (Question is a section 78 request the same as a CCA request? In which case I had sent that some time ago so I just need to make that clear here) copies of any documents referred to within the Claimants' particulars to establish what the claim is for. To date they have failed to comply to my CPR 31.14 request and my section 78 request and remain in default with regards to this request.

 

In response to my section 78 request for the MBNA agreement, an application form, which refers the applicant to sign and return the agreement. It is barely legible and was provided along with a reconstituted version which is void of an account number or date to which it supposedly refers to. Both of which are pre-April 2007 credit applications and therefore unenforceable pursuant to sections 61.1 a/b/c.and 65.1 and sections 127.1.

 

6. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

7. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.

 

8. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.