VCS windscreen PCN PAPLOC Now Claimform - Canley Railway Station, Coventry.CV5 6BH

[FiatPanda 1]

A few years ago on this forum I took the advice of ignoring a PCN which as predicted eventually went away.

 

In May this year I received a windscreen notice form myparkingcharges and I decided to do nothing and see what happened.

It seems that there is a more tenacious follow up these days.

 

(Briefly: A small full car park for the local railway station. 

My tiny SMART car will fit into a small space which is too small for most cars but is not marked with white lines in the way other spaces are.

I have parked there before without incident and actually thought I was doing a good turn by saving the big spaces for more average sized cars).

Today I have received a Letter Before Claim and am now not sure what to do.

My instinct is to pay the initial £60 charge but it seems that may not end the matter.

I have read about an SAR which I need to submit - would it mean a letter something like this?:

 

Thank you for your letter dated **/08/2019. 

Please can you let me have a copy of all photos taken

Please provide me with a copy of all letters on this subject.
Please send me a PDT machine record from that day including payments made 

A copy of all data held, all evidence you will rely on, and a full copy of the PCN and NTK
A  list of all PCNs you consider are outstanding against me and/or this VRN, 

 

Is this correct?

I would rather just get rid of this and pay the initial £60 but as the bill is now £160 it is a lot of money to lose.

 I have tried to read through all relevant threads but would really appreciate some easy to follow advice.

If I can get away with £60 I would be OK but obviously would rather not pay at all.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

[honeybee13 3,897]

Hi, welcome back.

 

Could you post up the questions from the forum sticky together with your answers so we can advise you please? It's best to wait until the guys have looked at your information before you start writing as it could end up as pointless letter tennis.

 

 

HB

[FiatPanda 1]

Thanks for the swift reply.

These are the answers to the questions on the sticky:

It was a windscreen 'Red Square': ATTENTION DOCUMENT ENCLOSED.

It was followed up 9 days later with a Parking Charge Notice/Notice to Keeper

 

1 The date of infringement? 20/05/19

 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? No

 

  If you haven't appealed yet - ,.........have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days]

what date is on it.   RECEIVED on 01/06/2019

 

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? Only of the car registration plate. Not of the parking bays

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) NO

 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK, Not applicable

 

5 Who is the parking company? myparkingcharge

 

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park?  Canley Railway Station,Network West Midlands,Canley Station,Canley Road.Coventry.CV5 6BH

 

The car was only parked for minutes as I was being dropped off at the Station by a neighbour who was using my car. She just walked with me to the station to help with my luggage. The car park is free. My tiny SMART car was in a small space that would not accommodate bigger cars. The car park was full and we were only a few minutes as I was catching a train. 

[dx100uk 8,529]

really they think they can over rule railway byelaws now too..!!

 

 

[dx100uk 8,529]

scan up your NTK to one PDF please

read upload

bet you were there<10mins anyway.

 

in all effect it matters not as I expect [you need to check on planning portal of council]

the car park land is owned by the railway co. so byelaws rule.

 

dx

 

[FiatPanda 1]

HI 

PCN-NTK.pdf

[Mrs O'Frog 161]

Can you confirm the car park? They are saying a business park on the ntk. Need to establish if it's railway land covered by byelaws or not.

 

Have a look on the website and see what photos they have. Have they given you observation times?

 

Get your own photos of the site. Entrance, overall plan (inc sign locations) where you parked. We could do with a close-up of the signs. Need to read the "naughty list" and small print. 

 

The parking charge was £100, discounted to £60 for early payment. VCS aren't likely to be offering the discount again any day soon. The extra £60 that's gone on top of the £100 can only be claimed from the driver, not the keeper. Don't tell them who was driving and the most they can claim is £100. As it's VCS they will keep at this like a dog with a bone, but you should be able to swat it away with the right response at the right time - which isn't yet. For now, gather the info, let us have it, but otherwise sit tight.

[FiatPanda 1]

That is very helpful Mrs O'Frog. We will collect all the relevant information and post it tomorrow or Thursday. Thx.

[lookinforinfo 2,133]

You said there was a notice attached to your car on the day-did you keep it or can you at least post up the gist of it.

[FiatPanda 1]

I have loaded the photos from the car park and the various notices.

To answer Mrs O Frog's questions:

The sign at the entrance to the car park indicates it is Canley Station Car Park provided for rail users only. It is under the 'banner' West Midlands Network and refers to West Midlands combined authority. I am not sure whether it comes under railway land byelaws. There is a road between the station and this car park so it is not right next to it. About a 30 second walk.

 

The driver/ vehicle does not come under the full terms and conditions for 10 minutes. I do not know what evidence there is that the car was there for longer than 10 minutes. I was reluctant to follow the links on their initial windscreen notice to their website for fear of incriminating myself. Is this where there might be more evidence/photos and if so am I 'safe' to take a look?

 

The signage does clearly say parking only in marked bays- we chose to park for a short time in a small space next to the bays thereby freeing up space for other cars. My car is so small it easily fitted in the space - my bonnet facing the wall and the rear end lined up with the other cars. It did not block anything including the Park and Ride sign on the wall.

 

it is obvious taking a closer look that there are cameras trained on that area no doubt to catch people out when the car park is full and there is no other choice but to take a risk and park where they shouldn't. There are no other alternative car parks nearby so not being able to park means missing the train. 

 

As this is a free car park for users of the station presumably catching people out is the only source of income and why cameras are positioned where they are.

 

The Privacy notice is also clear.

I look forward to hearing your advice. Thanks so much.

[FiatPanda 1]

Hi lookinforinfo,

 This is a pdf scan of the windscreen notices. It is as clear as I can get it. 

 

To answer Mrs O Frog's questions:

The sign at the entrance to the car park indicates it is Canley Station Car Park provided for rail users only. It is under the 'banner' West Midlands Network and refers to West Midlands combined authority. I am not sure whether it comes under railway land byelaws. There is a road between the station and this car park so it is not right next to it. About a 30 second walk.

 

The driver/ vehicle does not come under the full terms and conditions for 10 minutes. I do not know what evidence there is that the car was there for longer than 10 minutes. I was reluctant to follow the links on their initial windscreen notice to their website for fear of incriminating myself. Is this where there might be more evidence/photos and if so am I 'safe' to take a look?

 

The signage does clearly say parking only in marked bays- we chose to park for a short time in a small space next to the bays thereby freeing up space for other cars. My car is so small it easily fitted in the space - my bonnet facing the wall and the rear end lined up with the other cars. It did not block anything including the Park and Ride sign on the wall.

 

it is obvious taking a closer look that there are cameras trained on that area no doubt to catch people out when the car park is full and there is no other choice but to take a risk and park where they shouldn't. There are no other alternative car parks nearby so not being able to park means missing the train. 

 

As this is a free car park for users of the station presumably catching people out is the only source of income and why cameras are positioned where they are.

 

The Privacy notice is also clear.

I look forward to hearing your advice.

 

Thanks so much

 

[lookinforinfo 2,133]

The windscreen notice is a Notice to Driver. So they should wait for between 29 and 56 days before sending you the Notice to Keeper. By sending it within fourteen days they have lost any chance of being able to lawfully  claim any money from you.

[Mrs O'Frog 161]

The windscreen notice I suspect is one of VCS's red "This is not a parking charge" sticky bits of confetti. It has been argued against and lost (on a few occasions) the courts and DVLA both say it's okay and isn't a ntd (despite the fact that it's a notice and is left for the driver) so they can still use the 14 day timings. A mockery of the system I know, but there we have it.

[dx100uk 8,529]

urm..allowed to take photos of people to ID the driver

 

oh no they are NOT!!

[dx100uk 8,529]

thread tidied

yes its a red notice too

FP can you attach the windscreen ticket scan pdf again please

it appear to have not stayed .

[FiatPanda 1]

 

 

The Windscreen notice pdf again.

Windscreen notices.pdf

[FiatPanda 1]

I have been trying to find out who owns the Land. Without paying the Fee to the Land registry I can't ascertain but will do if this is essential. This is the free information they have provided.

Address:

Park and Ride Site
Coventry Business Park
Canley Road

 

Tenure:

Leasehold

 

Everything else I can find relates to West Midlands Combined Authority who offer 'Considerate Parking'.

 

 

 

[Mrs O'Frog 161]

As you've received the NTK now, it's fine to go on the myparkingcharge site and see what other photos they have. Check the timings on the photos - we want to see how long they have as an observation period.

[FiatPanda 1]

I have checked the site and there are 6 photos. All but one are angles of the car parked and the  registration plate. The other is a photo of the Park and Ride notice already provided via my pdf upload. There is no evidence of the driver or of how long the car was parked there. 

It reads:

The Site Enforcer had reasonable belief that the above vehicle had committed the following contravention:

Contravention: 86) PARKED BEYOND THE BAY MARKINGS.

 Date and time of recorded contravention: 20th May, 2019 at 09:55:00

 

If the photos are useful I will pdf them but I dont think they really add anything to the initial photo on the NTK.

I cant see any evidence of how long the car was parked there. 

[Mrs O'Frog 161]

Times on the photos?

 

Also, we can't read that sign in the NTK it's way too tiny. Can you put the sign photo up please?

Edited August 22 by Mrs O'Frog
Sign

[FiatPanda 1]

Thank you for sticking with this Mrs O'Frog.

There are no times on the photos. Here is the enlarged sign on a pdf document.Park and ride sign.pdf

[lookinforinfo 2,133]

If there are no time stamps anywhere they cannot prove you were there for more than 10 minutes. That gave you time  to read the signs and decide you didn't want to abide by their T&Cs , so you left.  And you weren't parked there, just stopping to read the signs.

Edited August 22 by lookinforinfo

[FiatPanda 1]

Great advice-thats what I hoped I could say.

Next question - when do I do that?

Is this the sitting and waiting bit now having collected all the bits and pieces I need?

Is there anything else I need to do for now?

 

 

[FiatPanda 1]

I wondered if anyone has had chance over the weekend to look at my post ? I was asking if I need do anything at this stage or wait for VCS to contact me again? Thanks very much.

 

 

[dx100uk 8,529]

as post 12

 

lets see if they are brave enough to send a letter of claim.

 

IMHO nothing for you to do yet bar get clear photos of the T&C's small print?