Jump to content


Recommended Posts

Hi Caggers..

Just looking for people's thoughts on a parking fine I received on the 1st July for overstaying on a 2 hr only area.

At the moment I have received the NTO as I challenged this on inadequate signage which was turned down by LA ( no surprise) .

 

So here is a quick breakdown:

I have parked in this street near to my local station for a number of months, no problems no parking fines.

One side has white markings for residents only displayed on the road with accompanying signs so I avoid these bays.

The opposite side has white markings but no corresponding signs so I park there along with other commuters.

 

These bays are near the bottom end of the street.

Adjacent to a cattle market seperated by stone columns and a metal fence.

There are a number of large trees,bushes etc on the side I parked.

 

1st July parked up at 8am , returned at 5pm and found parking ticket.

Reason was overstay on a 2 hr only bay.

 

On the same day  I took pictures of car location, trees, bays etc.

I was parked close to a group of large trees/bushes which were overhanging on to road, checked around for parking restrictions and could not see any my side, on the opposite side was signage to say residents only bays which did not correspond to the bay I was using as these are unmarked.

I left vehicle and exited the street at the bottom end.

 

I decided to park elsewhere but on investigation a week later I went back to check if any signage.

Where I had been parked the bushes/trees had been cut back and there was a small 2hr only sign, also half way up the street on a small column was another 2hr only sign but I would not have seen this as I exited the bottom end of the street.

I took photos of the newly revealed sign. 

 

So I disputed the original fine on the grounds of signage along with printed out pictures before/after . T

his was turned down on the grounds that a sign was on of the columns half way up the street ( about 30-40 feet ) but as explained I exited bottom end of street so would not have seen this sign from where my car was parked due to overhang of trees/bushes.

 

I know it was only £25 which I could have paid but I intend to fight this as I hate my LA anyway ( wasteful with taxpayers money ) and also believe they do not have a case to answer with the photographic evidence.

 

Anybody else had success with insufficient signage?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Yes, if your case is strong. However if there was a sign clearly visible 30-40 feet along, I don't think you will win an appeal.

 

You would be expected to go and look for the sign when you park, to find out what the restriction is for that bay.

Just walking away (the other way) is not going to give you much of a case to argue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi..

Thanks for the advice.

IMO the signage was hidden well away, even the supposed sign on display.

Will try and post up some pics.

I am currently at the NTO stage.

 

Find attached pics to show where I was parked adjacent to the trees.

 

As stated I was at the bottom end and just in front of my car black the black Honda is the sign but this is behind all the leaves as can be seen in pic CAG3.

 

Pic CAG 4 shows the next two columns up and as you can see the columns here between the Merc and Astra do not have any signs.

 

Just after the Astra is the next sign but as you can see from pic CAG3 it is halfway up the street and hidden by overhanging branches.

 

Let me know your thoughts...

 

CAG_3.jpg

CAG4.jpg

 

As mentioned I exited bottom end of street so did not and could not see the sign where the Astra is parked just in front of the Merc....

 

As mentioned there are no signs on opposite side of street.

 

A week later the bush in front of my car was cut back and this showed the small parking sign.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reason the question was asked is so it can be checked on Google Street View. We would need to know the street as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah ok...it's Waverly Terrace in Darlington , off Clifton Road..

 

I will try and upload after pics but may be restricted by size...

 

Pic2.jpg

 

The last pic was taken a week later , my vehicle was parked where the vauxhall is on the left.

 

On my original picture the sign was not visible and you can clearly see where the bush has been cropped right down to reveal it now.

 

I sent this and three other pics in from various angles.

The LA response is that there is a sign further up the road and I should have seen that one.

That was there only response.

 

Sorry mistake ! I was parked on the right where the Vauxhall is not the left....brain freeze..

 

Pic4.thumb.jpg.799d2ba5af87532b967c7fc2dfd12965.jpg

 

The last pic shows from across the road a week later , with all foliage cut back.

The next two columns up have no sign on, the next available sign is behind the white car in the top right of the pic.

 

There are no time restricted signs across the road.

If you compare from the first pic I posted to the last it is quite clear the overhang has been cut back to reveal the sign.

 

I sent all these pics to the LA and they dismissed it , as I mentioned I should have been aware of the sign which is up near the white car.

 

Visible? I think not!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sadly the latest in  GSV is from 2014:

https://goo.gl/maps/P2H7KwpyDSfcxwX77

even so it was partly obscured then

 

If you have already received the NtO,, with the discount now gone, you hve nothing to lose by making formal representations to that and then, if they still reject, going to adjudication.

 

Obviously it's pure coincidence that the bush has   been trimmed immediately after your informal challenge!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi..

Yes it is at NTO stage so I submitted my objection online to the LA.

I'm prepared to go adjudication as well.

 

I find it ridiculous that the LA expect me to go and find a hidden sign when it should be in clear view.

As stated I have these before and after pics within the space of a week to prove on the day I received the ticket the foliage was overgrown.

 

Let's see what happens.

 

Thanks for your advice so far..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think you will win this one. If the sign was hidden, you are basically arguing that you did not know there was a sign there at all. That being the case, the onus is on you as the driver to look around and find out what the restriction is. To do so, all you need to do is walk up along the bay until you find a sign.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi..

I appreciate your honest opinion ,that said I did take a look around but did not noticeably see a sign.

 

I had been using this street to park months previously without issue.

As mentioned i exited at the bottom of street.

I could base an argument on why there were no signs on the columns nearby.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, that's a question rather than an argument. The answer they are bound to give is that they have to put signs at suitable, convenient places, and the appearance of multiple signs will annoy residents (people do complain about almost anything).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Jamberson..thanks for the advice.

 

I agree multiple signs may annoy the local residents.

 

I still believe that the signage was not clearly available on the day and it is down to the LA to ensure those signs are clearly displayed.

 

Ironic that a week later all those bushes and foliage had been cut right back.

 

If the LA deemed the signage was displayed correctly in the first place why cut back that foliage later on that week?

That is what I am basing my argument on. 

 

I am at the NTO stage now and have submitted that reason for not paying the original fine.

Let's see how that goes.

I have 56 days.

 

Reading through the forums I can see that other LA's have failed to comply with the 56 day timeline and consequently had to quash the fine due to  procedural impropriety...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So just an update!

 

I sent off the formal representation letter and got a letter back from the LA today dated 19th. 

 

They quote

" I have established that the signage next to your vehicle was obscured by foliage which has now been cut back

however there are bay markings on the ground which does signify a restriction in place and the sign on the wall less than 2 metres from your vehicle is visible.

 

However on this occasion I have cancelled the penalty charge and you will hear nothing further about this matter"

 

So a result !!!

 

Still annoyed that the LA dismissed my original response along with pictured evidence.

Thanks to all who posted on here...donation coming over today...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh and 2 metres my a$$ ...as clearly shown on the two columns which were devoid of any sign and in that 2 metre area...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

like most circumstances, there are precedents that can be considered so i think you would have a reasonable chance of winning this one anyway.  Inadequare signage covers a lot of scenarios

However as the bay is clearly marked then it is reasonable fo the council to expect you to go and look for the relevant signage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, ericsbrother said:

like most circumstances, there are precedents that can be considered so i think you would have a reasonable chance of winning this one anyway.  Inadequare signage covers a lot of scenarios

However as the bay is clearly marked then it is reasonable fo the council to expect you to go and look for the relevant signage.

I agree on the bay being marked. I suppose in future it will certainly make me check more clearly. I would still expect any council to make signs more clearly available.I won my point with them so that is a bonus..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...